GUILTY UK - Helen Bailey, 51, Royston, 11 April 2016 #3

[Alyce]

I wonder if he used the Grey Recycling bin for the transfer from kitchen to garage?

From their council's website Grey bins are for dry recycling, cardboard, plastic bottles etc.

Is this why he took 'cardboard boxes' to the tip - together with the duvet - because he had needed to empty the bin and so had to dispose of it's previous contents?

Helen could have remained in the bin until he had a clear opportunity to use the cesspit - at his leisure and when he had used his medication and felt able enough.

very possible I think re the bin. Isnt that the utility room - to the left of the alcove door on the floor plan ? may have kept the bins in there

 

[ZaZara]

Makes a lot of sense.

There is a pic on the previously linked right move page. I have copied the pic but it is rather small...easier to view from the link, so I am putting it up again

Pic number 5 shows the patio/terrace area and you can just see the door in the alcove

http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-29951740.html

Hmmm... not sure about this. IMHO it would make sense to avoid the stairs from the terrace to the garden, given his physical condition. Can these stairs be seen from a higher window of the neighbouring house, I wonder?

My initial idea was that IS hid the body in a wheelie bin out of everybody's possible view, and once he was outside he would roll the wheelie bin to the garage. This would look far less suspicious than if someone saw him dragging an object rolled in a duvet or wrapped in black plastic.
However it seems very unlikely that he would bump a wheelie bin off the stairs. it can be done of course, but it requires a lot of strength to keep it from falling over.
And even if you manage, it would look odd to someone who saw you and they would remember.

:thinking:

 

[JudgeJudi]

“Her seven-year-old dachshund Boris was also in the excrement-filled pit, as was a dog’s toy and pillow slip”. Did IS lure Boris into the pillow slip by holding it open and throwing in the toy?

We know that Helen was probably smothered and IS could have done this in a number of ways.
1. He could have placed a pillow over her face and then removed the pillowcase as it would now have DNA on it from her mouth as she opened it while struggling to breathe?
2. He could have sat on her chest, placed the pillow over her face and raising her jaw up. This method has been used in many homicides and is known as “burking”. He may not have known about raising her jaw, but even sitting on her chest while smothering her would have been very effective.
3. Two plastic bags were found in the cesspit and must have been used for something nefarious. One could have been used to suffocate Helen and Boris may have been placed in the other one.

“IS was later seen taking a ‘large white object, probably a duvet’ to Royston Waste and Recycling Centre”. He may have placed the duvet on the floor next to the lounge or wherever she was sleeping, used a plastic bag to drape over her in order to roll her over onto the duvet and than dragged the duvet to the next point in order to avoid his DNA being found on her clothing.

http://www.thecomet.net/news/ian_st...fter_partner_repeatedly_drugged_her_1_4843988

I believe he had to deal with Boris first. As others have stated, Dachshunds are extremely protective of their owners and their property. When my father retired he used to take his miniature Dachshund everywhere with him. In the cooler months he took this little dog with him in the car if he popped up to the corner shop to buy a couple of groceries and thought nothing of leaving the window wound down all the way. He always used to say that no-one would have a chance of getting in the car with her guarding it. If Boris saw Helen struggling, I can’t believe he’d just sit there and watch. He'd bark and go into attack mode.

 

[ColourPurple]

That was on their search of April 22nd! The same date as his first recorded police interview.

Wow that is early on. wonder why it wasn't made a murder enquiry at that point

 

[DollyDiamond]

“Her seven-year-old dachshund Boris was also in the excrement-filled pit, as was a dog’s toy and pillow slip”. Did IS lure Boris into the pillow slip by holding it open and throwing in the toy?

We know that Helen was probably smothered and IS could have done this in a number of ways.
1. He could have placed a pillow over her face and then removed the pillowcase as it would now have DNA on it from her mouth as she opened it while struggling to breathe?
2. He could have sat on her chest, placed the pillow over her face and raising her jaw up. This method has been used in many homicides and is known as “burking”. He may not have known about raising her jaw, but even sitting on her chest while smothering her would have been very effective.
3. Two plastic bags were found in the cesspit and must have been used for something nefarious. One could have been used to suffocate Helen and Boris may have been placed in the other one.

“IS was later seen taking a ‘large white object, probably a duvet’ to Royston Waste and Recycling Centre”. He may have placed the duvet on the floor next to the lounge or wherever she was sleeping, used a plastic bag to drape over her in order to roll her over onto the duvet and than dragged the duvet to the next point in order to avoid his DNA being found on her clothing.

http://www.thecomet.net/news/ian_st...fter_partner_repeatedly_drugged_her_1_4843988

I believe he had to deal with Boris first. As others have stated, Dachshunds are extremely protective of their owners and their property. When my father retired he used to take his miniature Dachshund everywhere with him. In the cooler months he took this little dog with him in the car if he popped up to the corner shop to buy a couple of groceries and thought nothing of leaving the window wound down all the way. He always used to say that no-one would have a chance of getting in the car with her guarding it. If Boris saw Helen struggling, I can’t believe he’d just sit there and watch. He'd bark and go into attack mode.

I don't see it that way, I feel sure in my heart that killing Helen was his number one priority and the little dog was regarded as an 'inconvenience' he would have dealt with afterwards. Like Helen, I'm a lady who is very close to her small dog and she is very protective of me. However, Like Boris she is small and though she could bark loudly she wouldn't be any match for a grown man. My instinct is he shut Boris away, possibly in a bathroom upstairs where his barking wouldn't be heard by anyone, then concentrated on suffocating Helen and perhaps preparing her body (eg laying it on a duvet cover) to be transported to the garage.

His main battle fought and won and Helen dead, he then turned his attentions to Boris. Remember, Boris knew IS and had no reason to distrust him or attack him, if he had not seen him attacking Helen. It seems to me he lured him into the pillow case with the dog toy, later recovered from the cesspit. I was surprised there were apparently no broken bones or injuries to Boris - I think he must have suffocated him in the pillowcase, inside the house. Logically, he would not have taken Boris to the garage alive, as he would likely have barked en route and alerted people. So perhaps one small mercy, to my mind, is I don't believe Boris was drowned in the cesspit. I believe Helen and Boris were likely both dead when he transported them to the garage - IS would not have risked either of them making a sound on that potentially risky journey from the house to the garage.

 

[ColourPurple]

Makes a lot of sense.

There is a pic on the previously linked right move page. I have copied the pic but it is rather small...easier to view from the link, so I am putting it up again

Pic number 5 shows the patio/terrace area and you can just see the door in the alcove

http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-29951740.html

Or maybe he moved her out of the way to the utility room first? Where is the garage in relation to the kitchen and utility room?

 

[Cherwell]

Hmmm... not sure about this. IMHO it would make sense to avoid the stairs from the terrace to the garden, given his physical condition. Can these stairs be seen from a higher window of the neighbouring house, I wonder?

My initial idea was that IS hid the body in a wheelie bin out of everybody's possible view, and once he was outside he would roll the wheelie bin to the garage. This would look far less suspicious than if someone saw him dragging an object rolled in a duvet or wrapped in black plastic.
However it seems very unlikely that he would bump a wheelie bin off the stairs. it can be done of course, but it requires a lot of strength to keep it from falling over.
And even if you manage, it would look odd to someone who saw you and they would remember.

:thinking:

IMBW, but it looks as though the steps only lead down to the swimming pool. Might there be a route to the left around the outside of the conservatory to the garage?

 

[Alyce]

Hmmm... not sure about this. IMHO it would make sense to avoid the stairs from the terrace to the garden, given his physical condition. Can these stairs be seen from a higher window of the neighbouring house, I wonder?

My initial idea was that IS hid the body in a wheelie bin out of everybody's possible view, and once he was outside he would roll the wheelie bin to the garage. This would look far less suspicious than if someone saw him dragging an object rolled in a duvet or wrapped in black plastic.
However it seems very unlikely that he would bump a wheelie bin off the stairs. it can be done of course, but it requires a lot of strength to keep it from falling over.
And even if you manage, it would look odd to someone who saw you and they would remember.

:thinking:

Yes, true. There is not a door from the utility out to the garden and back of house, so unlikely they keep the bins there, as they would have to constantly take them down the patio steps ,as you say.
Therefore, am guessing wheelie bins are kept in the garage - cant see any other obvious place.

So could have taken body down patio steps, using the two black bin liners as a cover over the duvet/body ( 2 for extra strength ) and could have - sorry about this - bent Helen's body at the knees, to make a smaller package inside the duvet/bin liners. Doesnt seem to be overlooked there - tall trees between them and adjoining house.

Then could have used wheelie bin from bottom of steps, as he goes through the small green fence and across lawn to side door of garage.
Cant access via main garage door because tall fence blocks the driveway from the garden.

Just adding the pic again


View attachment 108692

 

[Tortoise]

I wonder if he used the Grey Recycling bin for the transfer from kitchen to garage?

From their council's website Grey bins are for dry recycling, cardboard, plastic bottles etc.

Is this why he took 'cardboard boxes' to the tip - together with the duvet - because he had needed to empty the bin and so had to dispose of it's previous contents?

Helen could have remained in the bin until he had a clear opportunity to use the cesspit - at his leisure and when he had used his medication and felt able enough.

I'm not sure about the bin idea because there are a lot of steps from the house down to the garden. I suppose it could be bumped down but that might be quite hard for someone with an abdomen wound to control or bear the weight/bounce of. I think dragging along a duvet might have been a more manageable action for him.

EDIT should read all the posts before posting, repeating other ideas expressed already, sorry

 

[ColourPurple]

I don't see it that way, I feel sure in my heart that killing Helen was his number one priority and the little dog was regarded as an 'inconvenience' he would have dealt with afterwards. Like Helen, I'm a lady who is very close to her small dog and she is very protective of me. However, Like Boris she is small and though she could bark loudly she wouldn't be any match for a grown man. My instinct is he shut Boris away, possibly in a bathroom upstairs where his barking wouldn't be heard by anyone, then concentrated on suffocating Helen and perhaps preparing her body (eg laying it on a duvet cover) to be transported to the garage.

His main battle fought and won and Helen dead, he then turned his attentions to Boris. Remember, Boris knew IS and had no reason to distrust him or attack him, if he had not seen him attacking Helen. It seems to me he lured him into the pillow case with the dog toy, later recovered from the cesspit. I was surprised there were apparently no broken bones or injuries to Boris - I think he must have suffocated him in the pillowcase, inside the house. Logically, he would not have taken Boris to the garage alive, as he would likely have barked en route and alerted people. So perhaps one small mercy, to my mind, is I don't believe Boris was drowned in the cesspit. I believe Helen and Boris were likely both dead when he transported them to the garage - IS would not have risked either of them making a sound on that potentially risky journey from the house to the garage.

He could have just let Boris out in the garden then killed him as an afterthought when he realised it would look suspicious for Helen to leave without him.

 

[JudgeJudi]

Hmmm... not sure about this. IMHO it would make sense to avoid the stairs from the terrace to the garden, given his physical condition. Can these stairs be seen from a higher window of the neighbouring house, I wonder?

My initial idea was that IS hid the body in a wheelie bin out of everybody's possible view, and once he was outside he would roll the wheelie bin to the garage. This would look far less suspicious than if someone saw him dragging an object rolled in a duvet or wrapped in black plastic.
However it seems very unlikely that he would bump a wheelie bin off the stairs. it can be done of course, but it requires a lot of strength to keep it from falling over.
And even if you manage, it would look odd to someone who saw you and they would remember.

:thinking:

I agree it would be far less suspicious if he used a wheelie bin. However manoeuvring a wheelie bin on stairs or around corners wouldn't be easy, particularly with the weight of a body in it. Even pushing/pulling it with that much weight would be difficult, and he'd had an operation that was still affecting his health, or so he said. I suspect he dragged her out on the duvet as soon as it got dark. The duvet became soiled as a result of this and that's why it was subsequently taken to the tip.

 

[snoopydog]

Wow that is early on. wonder why it wasn't made a murder enquiry at that point

I think they wanted to trip him up and wait for him to do more they could use against him.... he stupidly did the arsenal ticket thing for example


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[ColourPurple]

I'm not sure about the bin idea because there are a lot of steps from the house down to the garden. I suppose it could be bumped down but that might be quite hard for someone with an abdomen wound to control or bear the weight/bounce of. I think dragging along a duvet might have been a more manageable action for him.

Maybe my expectations are too high but with the dog alerting to the bucket etc surely they've had got the dog to check over the wheelie bin too?

 

[ColourPurple]

I think they wanted to trip him up and wait for him to do more they could use against him.... he stupidly did the arsenal ticket thing for example


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They didn't seem to have him under any real surveillance though and he could easily have got rid of evidence, for example on the drive to Broadstairs.

 

[DollyDiamond]

So, just musing along those lines.

His wife died in 2010, how long would that money last ? No mortgage, but has to support himself and two non working children.

House sale was 2014. If he retained most of this money for himself, then yes, he would still have funds to keep paying over what would amount to £7,200 per year into the household account.

However, if he put most of his house sale money into the purchase of Hartwell Lodge, then he might have been running out of cash....perhaps another reason that pushed him to take action when he did.
If this was the situation, I doubt he would want Helen to know just how short of cash he was.

It does seem clear , from the evidence, that he did not have detailed knowledge about Helen's bank accounts
Therefore, I expect the reverse is true and Helen would probably not have known if he was running on empty.

Alyce, I think you have presented a very convincing theory there - IS will have sold himself to wealthy Helen as a solvent man in no need of her money. He'll no doubt have contributed as much as possible to the purchase of the fabulous mansion so that, although clearly she was paying the lion's share, he owned a considerable chunk and could hold his head high with her as 'co-owner' of their new home. But that could have put him under financial pressure that he didn't want her to be aware of. This undoubtedly throws fuel to his plans to murder her and take full control of the finances. Although they had a joint bank account it sounds to me like they kept their finances quite separate - no doubt this allowed him to hide his money worries from her but it also frustrated him as she wasn't giving him free access to her income/savings!

 

[Tortoise]

Sorry to be graphic, but if the police dog indicated at the bench and at the cleaning bucket, there was something more than a scent of death, bodily fluids that needed wiping up. Which would explain the need to dispose of the duvet he probably rolled her off the bench onto the floor with. I suspect one of the plastic bags was the means by which he suffocated her. And the dog toy was used to lure Boris into the pillowcase, which was then placed inside the other plastic bag.

I don't know how anyone can be swayed by impressions of him, over this evidence. This all takes a person with NO heart.

No wonder he said "Now it feels like my heart doesn't even exist."

 

[Squamous]

I think they wanted to trip him up and wait for him to do more they could use against him.... he stupidly did the arsenal ticket thing for example


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I agree. I don't think a cadaver dog indicating would alone constitute any case at all. When did the case go over to the major crimes team?

 

[snoopydog]

Sorry to be graphic, but if the police dog indicated at the bench and at the cleaning bucket, there was something more than a scent of death, bodily fluids that needed wiping up. Which would explain the need to dispose of the duvet he probably rolled her off the bench onto the floor with. I suspect one of the plastic bags was the means by which he suffocated her. And the dog toy was used to lure Boris into the pillowcase, which was then placed inside the other plastic bag.

I don't know how anyone can be swayed by impressions of him, over this evidence. This all takes a person with NO heart.

No wonder he said "Now it feels like my heart doesn't even exist."

Wonder how he killed her on the bench though. Surely would have been much easier if she was on the bed or couch having a sleep


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[Tortoise]

I agree. I don't think a cadaver dog indicating would alone constitute any case at all. When did the case go over to the major crimes team?

26th of April.

 

[Tortoise]

Wonder how he killed her on the bench though. Surely would have been much easier if she was on the bed or couch having a sleep


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A bag placed over her head or over her face wouldn't have been too difficult if she had keeled over sideways on the bench asleep.