GUILTY UK - Helen Bailey, 51, Royston, 11 April 2016 #3

[snoopydog]

26th of April.

Oooh this adds in with me seeing his dodgy fb post as well. He said on it he'd complained to the police about media intrusion and they just shrugged as well. Haha NO WONDER! I definitely think they were onto him from the start they just needed to collect as much evidence as possible. Keep him sweet thinking they were looking for her and keeping the media reports showing he wasn't a suspect.... also funny he won't give them his phone in case helen gets in touch but he can bugger off to Spain on holiday too. This man is a total cracker.


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[DollyDiamond]

Obviously it could never happen but I think he should have been made to identify her or at least been forced to look at the photos since all the jury and related professionals have had to.


here's that link to opinion by top UK forensic pathologist where he says even the mildest victim would have put up resistance to a smothering attack if they were concious
http://www.cambridge-news.co.uk/news/cambridge-news/helen-bailey-murder-trial-day-12435557

Unrelated - do members reckon he did some murder research on his phone? I just don't believe something this long in the planning is without a digital footprint. ( there's so much web info out there related to the drug's use in murders & assaults, for example as well as other aspects, septic decommissioning etc etc.....)

Absolutely, it seems obvious to me he wiped his computer and 'lost' his phone because of incriminating Google searches and the like. Questions about cesspits, decomposition, sleeping pills, Power of Attorney etc etc.

 

[snoopydog]

A bag placed over her head or over her face wouldn't have been too difficult if she had keeled over sideways on the bench asleep.

Would it not be more likely if she struggled she'd have banged herself off the wood table etc though causing bruising?


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[snoopydog]

Absolutely, it seems obvious to me he wiped his computer and 'lost' his phone because of incriminating Google searches and the like. Questions about cesspits, decomposition, sleeping pills, Power of Attorney etc etc.

Be interesting to hear if he had access to the dark web.... I thought your web history could be traced through your ISP as well? Anyone know more?


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[Cherwell]

Just looking over the Cambridge News page - have we seen this little nugget before?!

"Mr Polley said the dog, trained to assist in the recovery of deceased victims, ‘indicated’ at a bucket of cleaning materials in the utility room, as well as a bench in the kitchen dining area and a pair of trousers in the main bedroom."

http://www.cambridge-news.co.uk/news/cambridge-news/fianc-royston-author-helen-bailey-12518246

On a serious note I hope police identified whose trousers they were and took fingerprints from the bucket.

Initially I thought the trousers might be Helen's, but it's hard to see a scenario that fits.

Fingerprints on the bucket would only be significant if they belonged to someone other than a resident of the house, or the cleaner. IS could have picked up that bucket at any time.

 

[cottonweaver]

well done members on spotting all these interesting new points since yesterday
- timings discrepancies ( cadets, possible cctv issue)
- IS's financials - really looking forward to hearing more at trial on his joint account monthly %share in H.Lodge
- "new" cadaver dog scenting

I recall that when one of the sons gave evidence he testified that his father had no financial concerns, far from it. So did IS also mislead his sons on that?
"Oliver said he was unaware of the couple being engaged, but said he was happy at the thought of them marrying. He said there weren’t any financial worries and the financial position of each of them was not a worry - in fact it was quite the opposite."

http://www.cambridge-news.co.uk/news/cambridge-news/helen-bailey-murder-trial-week-12452783

I'm wondering if anyone knows if the Stewart family were in rented accomm for the 6 months before moving into the Royston home with Helen ?
That would also eat up a lot of IS's money and give him further impetus for IS's "OLLIng" - seize the day approach


ETA just seen Alyce's post on financials

 

[icemaiden65]

Would it not be more likely if she struggled she'd have banged herself off the wood table etc though causing bruising?


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That's possibly where the duvet initially came in - to cushion Helen against knocks whilst he smothered her. I can't get the thought out of my head that perhaps just for one instant the penny dropped with her, even if he was by then in the process of his vile act. The horror is unimaginable.

 

[Tortoise]

Would it not be more likely if she struggled she'd have banged herself off the wood table etc though causing bruising?


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I don't think she would struggle if she was so deeply drugged, and even if she did stir, she wouldn't have had the wherewithal to put up much of a resistance. I think the dosages he had stepped up to were probably unsafe. The week before she didn't wake up when his parents visited and her mother pointed out Boris would have barked.

 

[snoopydog]

That's possibly where the duvet initially came in - to cushion Helen against knocks whilst he smothered her. I can't get the thought out of my head that perhaps just for one instant the penny dropped with her, even if he was by then in the process of his vile act. The horror is unimaginable.

I was thinking the same. I hope for her sake she was totally out of it and didn't know a thing. Not sure we can say the same for poor boris


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[ZaZara]

I agree it would be far less suspicious if he used a wheelie bin. However manoeuvring a wheelie bin on stairs or around corners wouldn't be easy, particularly with the weight of a body in it. Even pushing/pulling it with that much weight would be difficult, and he'd had an operation that was still affecting his health, or so he said. I suspect he dragged her out on the duvet as soon as it got dark. The duvet became soiled as a result of this and that's why it was subsequently taken to the tip.

BBM


The duvet was taken to the tip on the same afternoon, wasn't it?
BTW Sunset on April 5 2016 in London was 19.41 hrs. IS was with one of his sons at the time and during the evening.

My idea is that IS rolled HB in the duvet, put the plastic bags around it, one from each side. Then shoved them into the wheelie bin inside the house - the wheelie bin was lying flat at that time so he did not have to lift the 'parcel' - and wheeled the bin around the house, from the front door to the main entrance of the garage.

 

[snoopydog]

Do you think we will hear in evidence the conversations she had online just before she vanished? Would be very telling if she'd said she was feeling very sleepy... or maybe she just conked out mid conversation....


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[Cherwell]

IMBW, but it looks as though the steps only lead down to the swimming pool. Might there be a route to the left around the outside of the conservatory to the garage?

Photo from Daily Mail shows there is a path around the conservatory .... Is that a gate through to the drive?



http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...t-man-55-suspicion-murder-disposing-body.html

 

[cottonweaver]

apols, this is the bit about a possible rental I meant to add, to clarify my previous post

"Jamie said Helen lived at an address with himself, his brother and Stewart, in Bassingbourn for six months before all of them moved to the Royston address."

http://www.cambridge-news.co.uk/news/cambridge-news/helen-bailey-murder-trial-week-12452783

So Helen possibly would have paid for the lion's share of that rental too?

This rental was before the 2014 date given by Alyce for sale going through of the old Stewart family home. ( And therefore the release of that cash.) Apols, I really need to refer to that financial timeline.


Diane's life insurance - Was it ever established?

also back to previous topic- cadets timing/IS in a rush?
"“I would’ve gone home to change. I did see dad, it was a brief conversation because dad knows my Monday night routine."

 

[DollyDiamond]

That's possibly where the duvet initially came in - to cushion Helen against knocks whilst he smothered her. I can't get the thought out of my head that perhaps just for one instant the penny dropped with her, even if he was by then in the process of his vile act. The horror is unimaginable.

Sadly that thought has struck me too - Helen was a reasonably young and healthy woman, even drugged with sleeping pills we know she had been lucid and emailing friends about wedding arrangement just that morning - she was dead by I think 2.30pm. So to me it seems unlikely she will have died quickly and easily, with no awareness of what was happening to her (this is another reason I believe he killed Helen before he killed Boris - IS could not have risked Helen being aware of him attacking her dog, that would have alerted her to his murderous intentions).

Even drugged, the body's reflex instinct is to breathe and to fight with every atom of strength to resist suffocation. I think IS will have had a battle on his hands to overcome her, and her end will not have been quiet or peaceful. She had no inkling of his intention to kill her, right up to the moment he pounced but when that moment came, I feel inevitably she'll have known, perhaps for a few seconds, what was being done to her and by whom.

The premeditated evil of these killings, the subsequent cover up and Not Guilty plea points to a very dangerous man and I hope that will be fully reflected in the sentencing. This man deserves to die in prison. I also hope he is visited in his dreams by Helen and Boris every night for the rest of his miserable life!

 

[jessie]

I have been reading that it is quite difficult to asphyxiate a dog.

I had a thought about Boris' demise but perhaps it would be insensitive to post about that and not of relevance. Although after what we have heard about Helen's discovery maybe not.........?

 

[Squamous]

I'm afraid I'm still thinking that Boris went in that pit alive and was overcome by the fumes. I don't think his barking (if he did bark) would have alerted any suspicion. He was a barky sort of dog and the neighbours would be used to hearing him, and the neighbours are a bit of a distance away anyway.

I wondered if the scent on the bench was due to IS sitting there wearing the trousers that the dog indicated too.

 

[cottonweaver]

Deprive a dog of oxygen in a pillow case in conjunction with a tied bin liner?
It would take longer but Helen would already be stupefied with the meds and the sherry/suffocated by then . That's been my scenario.

I would have thought he would want to avoid barking though - IDK if neighbours would have heard but my recollection of a Dachs is quite a high pitched bark but without the volume of lung power, as it were.

edit - cross post with Squamous. Definitely a barky dog I would have thought and IDK if the neighbours were in either.

 

[Alyce]

BBM


The duvet was taken to the tip on the same afternoon, wasn't it?
BTW Sunset on April 5 2016 in London was 19.41 hrs. IS was with one of his sons at the time and during the evening.

My idea is that IS rolled HB in the duvet, put the plastic bags around it, one from each side. Then shoved them into the wheelie bin inside the house - the wheelie bin was lying flat at that time so he did not have to lift the 'parcel' - and wheeled the bin around the house, from the front door to the main entrance of the garage.

that is certainly a much better plan than dragging a duvet across a lawn, or even taking the wheelie bin across the lawn.

I said, in one of my earlier musings ! that I thought IS took Helen out of the front door and put her into the car ( back seat of course not trunk ! ) and then drove down to the garage.
But using the wheelie bin would be just as good and in fact less hassle as her body is already inside the bin before he goes out of the house.

 

[Cherwell]

I agree with Squamous. I don't think barking would be a worry, a dog barking would be an everyday sound. The neighbours at Broadstairs were quoted as saying that they would know when Helen was there because of hearing Boris barking.

Dolly, I disagree that "This man deserves to die in prison".
He deserves to die alone, shut into a dark stinking cesspit full of fumes and **** for as long as it takes.
That's what he deserves.

 

[DollyDiamond]

BIB I had exactly that conversation this morning with OH !!

and, it made me think, again, of the telephone call to the police...the part where IS is asked to describe Helen.
He can't remember eye colour or height accurately but when asked about build he says
.....slim, that's easy.

O

OMG - Of course, he was well aware she was slim. How chilling.