GUILTY UK - Helen Bailey, 51, Royston, 11 April 2016 #7

[neteditor]

If the house is sold IS will have plenty of cash that he wont be requiring in prison though. Perhaps he ought to ensure that his boys are looked after.

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Very good point Janeh. But given he's a greedy git will he do that?

 

[pinklilies]

Alyce
Going back to this discussion, I don't understand why anyone thought they weren't handling the conveyancing of the flat in Newcastle, because Mr Penn gave evidence about how he was doing so, and there's no other reason for consulting a solicitor about that flat except to do the conveyancing. You brought his evidence up again in Thread 4:
Timothy Penn, a solicitor at Penn Sassoly solicitors in Royston, will now be giving evidence.

He said: “Helen was introduced to me because she needed a solicitor for the sale of a flat.

“On April 5 she came into my office for an appointment. She said to me that I would need her partner’s ID at some point.

“She said the flat had been an investment property, it was surplus to her requirements she was selling it to realise the capital. It was a very routine conveyancing transaction as far as we were concerned.

“The flat was in Gateshead, the asking price was £185,000. The purpose of the meeting was an opportunity to meet the client which we always wish to do, and to get some basic instructions from her in regard to the property and the circumstances of the sale.

“That was the first and only time I met Helen Bailey. My records showed that Helen was due to come into the office to see me on April 11, 2016, but my office was called and we heard that she would not be coming in because she was unwell.

A few days later Stewart came in with some documents Helen was due to be bringing in but wasn’t able to.

“He came back and collected the surplus documents about a week later. We copied his ID.

“He gave the air of someone who was in a little bit of a hurry, but apart from that there was nothing untoward really.”

Of course that still leaves the question of why she was searching for a conveyancer when she already had one, even if she had thoughts about the Royston house - which was their joint property, wasn't it?

According to Pips post, it was April 1st that helen asked on FB about a local conveyancer. Mr Penn states helen came into office on April 5th so it sounds like he was the one recommended or found since her request on April 1st.


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[neteditor]

Just saw this tweeted and I think it sums things up very nicely:

The Helen Bailey trial is bonkers. Husband is claiming kidnappers forced him to incriminate himself for her murder

 

[Alyce]

Alyce
Going back to this discussion, I don't understand why anyone thought they weren't handling the conveyancing of the flat in Newcastle, because Mr Penn gave evidence about how he was doing so, and there's no other reason for consulting a solicitor about that flat except to do the conveyancing. You brought his evidence up again in Thread 4:
Timothy Penn, a solicitor at Penn Sassoly solicitors in Royston, will now be giving evidence.

He said: “Helen was introduced to me because she needed a solicitor for the sale of a flat.

“On April 5 she came into my office for an appointment. She said to me that I would need her partner’s ID at some point.

“She said the flat had been an investment property, it was surplus to her requirements she was selling it to realise the capital. It was a very routine conveyancing transaction as far as we were concerned.

“The flat was in Gateshead, the asking price was £185,000. The purpose of the meeting was an opportunity to meet the client which we always wish to do, and to get some basic instructions from her in regard to the property and the circumstances of the sale.

“That was the first and only time I met Helen Bailey. My records showed that Helen was due to come into the office to see me on April 11, 2016, but my office was called and we heard that she would not be coming in because she was unwell.

A few days later Stewart came in with some documents Helen was due to be bringing in but wasn’t able to.

“He came back and collected the surplus documents about a week later. We copied his ID.

“He gave the air of someone who was in a little bit of a hurry, but apart from that there was nothing untoward really.”

Of course that still leaves the question of why she was searching for a conveyancer when she already had one, even if she had thoughts about the Royston house - which was their joint property, wasn't it?

I thought Mr Penn was handling the conveyancing for Helen.

Re the ownership of Hartwell Lodge in Royston. From what we heard in evidence, IS put in £470,000 which would equate to just under 40% of the value at the time of purchase. Although, as he put his money in one year later, it could be argued that his % share is less than that, as no doubt the property had risen in value during that first year.
I dont know and dont think we have been told whether they were joint tenants or tenants in common. That would be useful to know. ( not that we are likely to find out ! but just from an interest angle. )

https://www.gov.uk/joint-property-ownership/overview

 

[janeh]

Very good point Janeh. But given he's a greedy git will he do that?

Yes probably not. He likes to have everything all to himself it seems.

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[snoopydog]

Haha yes, that would have been weekend valium in my eyes

*ahem* not a junkie honest

SNOOPYDOG! You have got to be a fellow Scot with vocab like that... bams trying to get in your door!

The only time I dialled 999 was 3am after being woken up by the smoke alarm and realising my house was ablaze. I only managed to say "Fire engines... fire engines... fire engines..." like a demented two year old

I am indeed Scottish since you are as well I definitely think you're at least 10% junkie, think we all are here. Hahaha.

Fire sounds like a nightmare. [emoji43]

I did have to confirm my address a few times to the 999 woman. That's worrying in retrospect... imagine you couldn't speak! I'm gathering they can't trace your mobile to an address [emoji848] *paranoid now*


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[Alyce]

If the house is sold IS will have plenty of cash that he wont be requiring in prison though. Perhaps he ought to ensure that his boys are looked after.

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I think he will use it for his appeals - that is assuming he is allowed to appeal of course.

If not, I suppose it will keep him in Mars Bars for a while

 

[cottonweaver]

She only posted a funny picture of an Aston Martin as another FB friend has one.


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Thanks for this as it means this Aston Martin-buying theory can be eliminated .

ETA Wills and two sons: We could assume that IS's own parents will perhaps change their own wills in favour of the two sons now. I expect IS will likely die in prison.

 

[neteditor]

I am indeed Scottish since you are as well I definitely think you're at least 10% junkie, think we all are here. Hahaha.

Fire sounds like a nightmare. [emoji43]

I did have to confirm my address a few times to the 999 woman. That's worrying in retrospect... imagine you couldn't speak! I'm gathering they can't trace your mobile to an address [emoji848] *paranoid now*


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Haha oooooh probably nearer 20% to be honest but I gave most things up when the kids came along Let's say I spent the 1990s (my 20s) in Edinburgh, Say no more

No they can't trace your mobile instantly to your address, like they could with a landline. The best the police can do is cell site triangulation but it's not pinpoint accurate, and it's not instant they need to go through a process of requesting your data from the provider. So when you're going to dump that body in Loch Lomond, switch your phone off before you go so they can't track your journey

 

[Moll]

According to Pips post, it was April 1st that helen asked on FB about a local conveyancer. Mr Penn states helen came into office on April 5th so it sounds like he was the one recommended or found since her request on April 1st.


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Ah, right, thanks for reminding me of that, so this discussion was based on a mistaken assumption that she was still looking for a conveyancer when it had in fact resulted in her finding Mr Penn's firm.

 

[neteditor]

I think he will use it for his appeals - that is assuming he is allowed to appeal of course.

If not, I suppose it will keep him in Mars Bars for a while

Surreal going from "excellent point" to PMSL here

 

[Moll]

I thought Mr Penn was handling the conveyancing for Helen.

Re the ownership of Hartwell Lodge in Royston. From what we heard in evidence, IS put in £470,000 which would equate to just under 40% of the value at the time of purchase. Although, as he put his money in one year later, it could be argued that his % share is less than that, as no doubt the property had risen in value during that first year.
I dont know and dont think we have been told whether they were joint tenants or tenants in common. That would be useful to know. ( not that we are likely to find out ! but just from an interest angle. )

https://www.gov.uk/joint-property-ownership/overview

Thanks, Alyce.
Yes, finding a conveyancer was clearly a problem Helen had solved, and no assumptions about the Royston property can be made on the basis of them. Thanks for the additional info.

 

[janeh]

I think he will use it for his appeals - that is assuming he is allowed to appeal of course.

If not, I suppose it will keep him in Mars Bars for a while

Yes and he will appeal I am certain.

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[TheRisenBishop]

Very good point Janeh. But given he's a greedy git will he do that?

His greed is for power and control, money for him is a means to that end. My guess is he will use any funds as leverage to try and exert whatever control he can over his sons.

 

[snoopydog]

Haha oooooh probably nearer 20% to be honest but I gave most things up when the kids came along Let's say I spent the 1990s (my 20s) in Edinburgh, Say no more

No they can't trace your mobile instantly to your address, like they could with a landline. The best the police can do is cell site triangulation but it's not pinpoint accurate, and it's not instant they need to go through a process of requesting your data from the provider. So when you're going to dump that body in Loch Lomond, switch your phone off before you go so they can't track your journey

[emoji23][emoji23][emoji23]


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[Moll]

Haha oooooh probably nearer 20% to be honest but I gave most things up when the kids came along Let's say I spent the 1990s (my 20s) in Edinburgh, Say no more

No they can't trace your mobile instantly to your address, like they could with a landline. The best the police can do is cell site triangulation but it's not pinpoint accurate, and it's not instant they need to go through a process of requesting your data from the provider. So when you're going to dump that body in Loch Lomond, switch your phone off before you go so they can't track your journey

Your 20s in the 90s...you're so young, neteditor, and you used to make yourself sound like Methuselah talking about your long-past days as a court reporter...

 

[Alyce]

Tara Cox ‏@TaraCoxCN 2m2 minutes ago

I'm here again at the Helen Bailey murder trial as the defence case continues today. Updates live from court here:

 

[Alyce]

Helen Bailey murder trial resumes

The case has been called back on. Stewart is sat in the dock wearing a grey striped shirt with a white collar, and jeans. Jurors are now being called in.


http://www.cambridge-news.co.uk/incoming/live-helen-bailey-murder-trial-12600802

 

[Moll]

Yes and he will appeal I am certain.

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If he's allowed to appeal. But I am not sure what the grounds for refusing an appeal are - is it just that the judge has to think there are no reasonable grounds?

 

[cottonweaver]

forgot to add re the OP's comment about IS's will.

We know that HB had an earlier version with different beneficiaries ( JS's children etc)
Had IS's plot failed and she had survived, I very much doubt that HB wouldn't have changed her will again too.
Lastly, a good lawyer could argue that her last will was void due to "undue influence" considering the toxicology hair samples and the possibility that HB had been manipulated for some years.