UK - Huge fire rips through Grenfell Tower, Latimer Road, White City, London, June 2017

[Spellbound]

I don't believe we have hear what was the main cause of the fire yet?

Interesting article on what cladding is and how it works:
http://metro.co.uk/2017/06/14/what-...-involved-in-the-grenfell-tower-fire-6707949/

-attached directly to the frame of a building to act as an outer wall.

-Typically made from wood, metal, plastic, masonry or a range of materials, it is applied to prevent condensation and allow water vapour to escape.

-It’s added to buildings that don’t already have external surfaces such as masonry walls.

-Rainscreen cladding is a double-wall construction that makes use of a surface to keep the rain out.

-It also has an inner layer that offers thermal insulation, prevents excessive air leakage and carries wind loading.

-The surface breathes like a skin, as the inner layer reduces energy losses.

-The material doesn’t contribute to the stability of a building, but it plays a structural role by protecting it from external conditions and creating a controlled internal environment.

-Other uses for cladding include the provision of privacy and security, preventing the transmission of sound, providing thermal insulation and preventing the spread of fire.


-However, there is a fire hazard when it comes to the use of cladding.
According to Redbooklive, if a fire in a room or multi-storey building breaks out of a window or door opening, there is potential for fire to spread quickly up the external cladding system and break back in the building through windows in upper stories.

 

[MelmothTheLost]

I don't believe we have hear what was the main cause of the fire yet?

No, but the most consistent account talks about a fridge exploding or catching fire on the 3rd or 4th floor.

-However, there is a fire hazard when it comes to the use of cladding.

According to Redbooklive, if a fire in a room or multi-storey building breaks out of a window or door opening, there is potential for fire to spread quickly up the external cladding system and break back in the building through windows in upper stories.

UK building regs require firebreaks to be inserted in cladding fascias to prevent this happening, though I've not seen details of whether this is just horizontally or vertically as well.

 

[Spellbound]

From this, it sounds as though this type of cladding works on an unfinished building, but putting it over an existing wall such as brick makes it unsafe. [actually, I may be misunderstanding. perhaps it was the type of insulation used? See Gizmodo article below] JMO

http://www.independent.ie/world-new...-flats-from-luxury-homes-nearby-35827260.html

“It produces a wind tunnel and also traps any burning material between the rain cladding and the building," he said.
“So had it been insulated per se, the insulation could fall off and fall away from the building, but this is all contained inside.”
He said not all insulation used in the process is the more expensive non-flammable type.

“So basically you have got a cavity with a fire spreading behind it," he added.

- - -
https://www.theatlantic.com/interna...6/london-fire-grenfell-public-housing/530298/

Early reports suggest that the fire spread so fast thanks to newly installed thermal cladding on the exterior. The material is in alarmingly common use across the U.K. and may actually be flammable. Alarm systems in the tower also worked solely on a floor-by-floor basis, while residents had been told previously that if a fire occurred, they should remain in their homes.

- - -
more on the cladding issue:
https://www.gizmodo.com.au/2017/06/how-rich-neighbours-may-have-factored-into-londons-deadly-tower-fire/
Installing aluminium cladding isn't inherently bad. The renovation detail was not only aimed at improving Grenfell's appearance but also the building's insulation. The space between the aluminium façade and the structure itself appears to have been stuffed with insulation. Fireproof insulation is expensive, and so some experts suggest that Rydon, the company responsible for the renovation, may have used cheap, non-fireproof insulation instead. This would have been a big mistake.
"[Cladding] produces a wind tunnel and also traps any burning material between the rain cladding and the building," fire expert and surveyor Arnold Tarling told The Independent. "So had it been insulated per se, the insulation could fall off and fall away from the building, but this is all contained inside."
Mike Penning, a member of Parliament and former fire minister, similarly said, "The cladding was clearly spreading the fire."

 

[mrsu]

Two young girls found after fire but six-month-old sister is missing

http://dailym.ai/2ssprjN

 

[mrsu]

Man who lived in flat where tower fire started 'packed BAG OF CLOTHES'

http://dailym.ai/2tpgPrb

 

[mrsu]

Hero father led his pregnant wife and daughters to safety from fire

http://dailym.ai/2srC0eV

 

[Hiandmighty]

Has anyone every known of a refrigerator to explode?

 

[MelmothTheLost]

From this, it sounds as though this type of cladding works on an unfinished building, but putting it over an existing wall such as brick makes it unsafe. [actually, I may be misunderstanding. perhaps it was the type of insulation used? See Gizmodo article below] JMO

http://www.independent.ie/world-new...-flats-from-luxury-homes-nearby-35827260.html

“It produces a wind tunnel and also traps any burning material between the rain cladding and the building," he said.
“So had it been insulated per se, the insulation could fall off and fall away from the building, but this is all contained inside.”
He said not all insulation used in the process is the more expensive non-flammable type.

“So basically you have got a cavity with a fire spreading behind it," he added.

Yes, this is why (from my understanding) UK building regulations require firebreaks to be installed with this sort of cladding to prevent the spread of fire behind it.

 

[mrsu]

I don't understand the reasoning of telling people to stay put! A fireproof door does not matter much when the fire burns out the floor below you. [emoji853] I just cannot imagine how terrified those people must have been. So sad.

I also read an article, can't find it now, where one of the firefighters estimated deaths would be in the hundreds. [emoji22]

 

[Ironside]

I don't understand the reasoning of telling people to stay put! A fireproof door does not matter much when the fire burns out the floor below you. [emoji853] I just cannot imagine how terrified those people must have been. So sad.

I also read an article, can't find it now, where one of the firefighters estimated deaths would be in the hundreds. [emoji22]

In most tower block fires staying put is actually the safest thing to do. Nobody would have advised this if they knew the cladding would engulf.

 

[MelmothTheLost]

Has anyone every known of a refrigerator to explode?

Yes, domestic appliances catching fire or exploding is a known phenomenon, though the most usual culprits are washing machines, tumble driers and dish washers. There have been a number of product recalls of specific makes and models and people have died as a result of the fires.

 

[wfgodot]

Guardian:

There is a growing sense of anger and frustration among the crowds gathered under the Westway flyover where volunteers are sorting and boxing donations.

One volunteer, Sinead O’Hare, said the fire and loss of life had tapped into a deeper sense of resentment and alienation.

“People are angry about years of Tory policy of cutting corners and costs, and refusing to take responsibility. The interests of the Tory party are closely allied to the interests of business and private landlords,” she said.
---
The media is one target for resentment. “You press people didn’t come here when people were blogging about the danger. You only come when people are dead,” said Calvin Benson, who was carrying a handmade sign saying: “I am not a photo opportunity.”

“You pick and choose your stories. The blogs have been active for years but no one was interested.”
---

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news...ore-fatalities-after-tower-block-blaze-latest

 

[wfgodot]

Guardian:

The Press Association reports that the lawyer for the family of Gloria Trevisan, an Italian architecture graduate missing after the Grenfell Tower fire, has told Italian media there is “no hope” of finding her or her partner Marco Gottardi alive.
---
“I’ve heard the recording of Gloria talking to her mother and there is no hope to find them alive,” said the lawyer, Maria Cristina Sandrin, in a filmed interview with Italian press.
---
“She said goodbye,” said Mrs Sandrin of Gloria’s phone call to her parents. “She said ‘thank you mother for what you have done for me’.”
---

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news...ore-fatalities-after-tower-block-blaze-latest

 

[dotr]

Has anyone every known of a refrigerator to explode?

2009

A series of violent fridge explosions is believed to have been caused by leaks of 'environmentally-friendly' coolant.

Safety standards for manufacturers might have to be reviewed following the blasts, which have destroyed several kitchens.
At least four similar explosions have been reported in the last three years in the UK, two of them since May.
The problem appears to result from a widespread switch to 'Greenfreeze' technology over the past 15 years and the use of isobutane and propane hydrocarbon gases as refrigerants.
Previously CFCs and HFCs were used in fridges but these gases damaged the ozone layer and contributed significantly to global warming. There are now more than 300million Greenfreeze fridges around the world.
They are designed with safety features to ensure the flammable natural gas inside the pipework cannot leak into the fridge.
However, if this happens there is a risk of a powerful blast as the gas could be ignited by a spark when the thermostat switches off.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...nmentally-friendly-coolant.html#ixzz4k5V2JQgl
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

[h=1]Could your fridge burn your house down? You can't switch them off. They're packed with inflammable insulation that can give off toxic gas. Here's why they are the most dangerous appliance of all...[/h] By Helen Carroll for the Daily Mail
Published: 01:40 BST, 3 August 2015

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-s-dangerous-appliance-all.html#ixzz4k5WCR2KY
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook
​

​

 

[margarita25]

Guardian:


https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news...ore-fatalities-after-tower-block-blaze-latest

( )

 

[Hiandmighty]

Yes, domestic appliances catching fire or exploding is a known phenomenon, though the most usual culprits are washing machines, tumble driers and dish washers. There have been a number of product recalls of specific makes and models and people have died as a result of the fires.

no, I mean has anyone experienced this themselves? Or a friend?

 

[KaaBoom]

I don't understand the reasoning of telling people to stay put! A fireproof door does not matter much when the fire burns out the floor below you. [emoji853] I just cannot imagine how terrified those people must have been. So sad.

I also read an article, can't find it now, where one of the firefighters estimated deaths would be in the hundreds. [emoji22]

Normally high rise buildings are build out of steel and concrete walls and floors. So there is no chance of the floor burning out in any type of ordinary fire. In this case I believe the fire burned from the outside of the building in. If not for the flammable material recently installed on the outside of the building the residents would have been safe, sheltering in place. The fire would have been confined to one unit, with minimum smoke damage to other units.

 

[wfgodot]

Guardian:

Police and firefighters are taking advice from urban search and rescue experts and have not been able to thoroughly search some of the higher floors of the block. Fires have restarted in the block today.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news...ore-fatalities-after-tower-block-blaze-latest

 

[MelmothTheLost]

no, I mean has anyone experienced this themselves? Or a friend?

I certainly haven't. The main brand of fridge implicated has been the Turkish-made Beko appliances. Significantly they are firmly at the budget end of the market so it's possible they're not as well made as more expensive ones.

To be fair, there have only been a few dozen cases to my knowledge despite millions of fridges in use.

 

[skibaboo]

guardian:

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news...ore-fatalities-after-tower-block-blaze-latest

yes yes yes!