My question would be more, why are they telling this to the media and not the police....oh yes, I know....££££££££!
GUILTY UK - Joanna Yeates, 25, Clifton, Bristol, 17 Dec 2010 #1
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My question would be more, why are they telling this to the media and not the police....oh yes, I know....££££££££!
whitedove
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Thank you for the Welcome wfgodot, I have always had an interest in crime, and what makes a person turn to murder, and just like in this case, if Chris Jefferies is the man who committed this crime, what pushed him over the edge, he seems to have been well liked by many people, quote from the D/Telegraph ( He was a confirmed bachelor and an extraordinary teacher. Inspirational, inspiring - as the advert goes you always remember a good teacher and he certainly was one).
I did link him in one of my earlier posts below.
Look forward to getting to know you all.12-29-2010, 02:42 PM
whitedove
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A few questions to be asked.
The b/f came home at 8pm? I think?, found his girlfriends keys, mobile phone, and coat.
Seeing that evidence he must then know she is locked out of the flat, she had’nt phoned him to say I m locked out, what time will you be home as I have got locked out, so alarm bells must be ringing, but he did’nt report her missing until 12 am, had he been ringing around friends before reporting her missing, had he rung her parents to see if she was staying there? or at friends, had she given anyone a spare key just in case she got locked out.
Why would J/Y go out without her keys?
She would go out with her parents if they had a spare key.
She would go out with her B/F as he would have keys.
She would go out with her landlord as he would have a spare key.
She would go out with a friend who kept a spare key.
Or she may have just forgotten her keys, but then she would be phoning to make arrangements to find a spare key to get back in.
The latest news that she left with two other people, there was no mention of a struggle, so did these people have a key, or did she have a gun pointed at her back?.
Just some things to think about.
My thoughts are with the family at this sad time. R.I.P Jo.
2goldfish
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I just dont know about this one, guys.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...quizzed-police-12-hour-extension-granted.html
why did they need an extension....shouldnt cadaver dogs have been used in his flat? were they? is he charged or isnt he?
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...quizzed-police-12-hour-extension-granted.html
why did they need an extension....shouldnt cadaver dogs have been used in his flat? were they? is he charged or isnt he?
Sgt Jones
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I have him down as the most obvious and likely suspect - not because he is an oddball etc etc but simply because he was willingly interviewed live on tv in the same way Ian Huntley was and other killers who like to "help" the police .
Fair enough, what he said on live tv was seemingly contradictory to what he actually told the police and his neighbours but there is no denying he was enjoying the limelight.
Moreover, IMHO he had opportunity - Jo was killed by someone she knew and trusted - she either willingly let them into her flat or they gained entry by not forcing the door.
Jo would answer the door to her landlord. If not, who apart from Jo and her boyfriend (who was 200 miles or so away) had a key to the flat?
My theory is - CJ was snooping in the flat when Jo unexpectedly returned home. He knew that her b/f would be away that weekend as he helped him fix his car for his journey to Yorkshire - perhaps he thought Jo was going too thereby giving him the opportunity to have a snoop around their flat seemingly without interruption.
Previous tenants have said he had a habit of letting himself into their flat without prior warning and without invitation! A landlord has to give at least 24 hours to enter the premises - CJ did not do this.
I've read through a lot of different media sources - I know you can't always believe what the media says but they do print things from ppl who know / knew him.
Some say good things about him and some, such as former tenants state how strange he was - refusing them blinds and curtains as it would seemingly hinder him peering into their flats.
Some neighbours state he was a nosey parker - always knew what was going on in his street so it's strange he was vague on whether it was actually Jo he saw that night or not.
Other neighbours state CJ was telling them he saw Jo and two others on the Friday night she disappeared but he did not tell the police! His neighbour had to report it to the police! CJ then phoned the neighbour trying to play down what he had told them!
So the question has to be asked, why did such a vigilant man, and a man obsessed with crime prevention (he was actively involved in local neighourhood watch) feel it unnecessary to go to the police himself and tell them of his sighting?
What was his reasoning behind this uncharacteristic action? He leafleted ppl telling them not to leave their mobiles in their car to prevent theft so surely he would have been at the station telling the police as soon as he knew Jo was missing of his sighting?
As for motive? I don't think it was premeditated. As I said earlier, and as another poster said, I think Jo did catch him hiding in her flat. She was at home, relaxing with a drink of cider and she suddenly finds him hiding. She screams - hence the screams heard at approx 9pm by a partygoer at a nearby flat, and CJ panics and tries ti silence her.
I know it's innocent until proven guilty but most murderers are committed by ppl the victims know. The unforced entry to the flat, lack of struggle, no theft of possessions etc strongly suggest no stranger did this.
The body was removed from the flats unseen as well suggesting the killer had a vehicle close by. A vehicle which did not stick out as a strange or unknown in the street - that is, it being parked at the flats was not unusal and therefore it did not draw the attention of the neighbours. They would think nothing of it if a familar vehicle was backed right up to the front door of the flats...
Thank you Whitedove for the warm welcome, and everyone else on the board. I've been looking at another thread and this was a post that was made about the LL. Thought it made interesting reading... (hope I'm allowed to repost.. if not, let me know and I'll remove)
I've been reading every page of this thread for nearly 3 days but have only just been able to register (annoying as there were so many things I wanted to correct). I've been reading along as I've also found the press/Sky coverage really very nasty and at odds with modern justice.
I went to the school in question and know the teacher. I've got friends to this day who were taught directly by him, as was my brother. It's heartening that so many of you who don't know him recognise that the press are butchering his reputation, as I also believe that, knowing of the guy.
Like some of the teachers quoted in the press today (who I also know) I believe there is no way in hell he did it. But rather than drone on at you with opinion on the media, here are some specific points of order:
Maybe it was a different generation but I don't remember a single person in over 5 years calling him "the strange Mr. Jefferies". He did lose his temper in class but so did most of his generation, I also remember him being one of the more "smiley" school masters you would see outside of class (i.e. genuinely positive and content in their jobs) and I recall he also sung "Great Balls of Fire" solo in a school play for the humour value, fully aware how self-depreciating it was. The trouble is the media turn "eccentric" into something distant, evil and untrustworthy when there are positive eccentric people all around us. His back story today is very one-sided.
The 'evil glint in his eye' (one post on here) which has had him convicted from a 30 second Sky interview, is something he's always done and it was always accompanied by a grin that usually reflected passion for whatever he'd be talking about. The guy is an 'old school' English literature teacher, the kind who get off just speaking aloud, he would always have a theatrical way about him when he's speaking, it's no different to someone like Brian Sewell (art critic) who you'd say is equally avant garde and camp but not at all evil. The guy has a passion for our language, he always had a glint in his eye when he was addressing people. Anyone who's ever met him knows that, which therefore makes feedback on his Sky interview (which even Sky seem to be referring to) absolutely irrelevant and misunderstood.
There's some comment in the press about pupils saying he was touchy feely which is obviously being used to present a guy who may come onto Jo Yeates. Yes, he was known to grab people's hands to get across passion for a particular piece of prose, but outside of class the guy was undeniably hugely introverted and would give everyone a wide berth, clutch folders in front of his chest and wear a big scarf. His classroom was where he relaxed but outside of it he had body language of someone who hated his personal space being invaded and didn't deal easily with strangers. I just don't see that going along with what is necessary to take a woman's life, particularly a new tenant he barely knew.
The Mr. Hardyman in the same block who reported that Mr. Jefferies had seen something (and who had been ill in bed) is another old ex-teacher, so while the press today seem to have altered the tone of residents in the block to now being concerned by Jefferies behaviour and comments, it's really no surprise that these claims are from "unnamed" people, the ones who have been named, like Mr. Hardyman I'm sure are supportive of him as former colleagues.
The headmaster of the school interviewed on TV simply wanted to create as much distance between Mr. Jefferies and the school - it was quite distasteful as it effectively cast him further adrift into this media picture of being a strange old loner. I have no doubt Mr. Jefferies IS still known by a number of teachers, and for the head to suggest they had never crossed paths is ludicrous. Clifton College is an open campus which means it's not exclusively within a private off road campus, many of the school buildings line local streets and staff and pupils will be back and forth on local streets on a daily basis, Canynge Road is one of those. There are playing fields on it and boarding houses yards away.
The pedophile link is of someone who worked at the same time as him, the victim was in my year, but calling the two of them friends is a reach - they were the antithesis of each other, for one thing none of you would react to an interview with the convicted child molester in the same way, he was a lot less eccentric, more streetwise and smart talking. The standards the media have applied to Jefferies' interview in singling him out, they're foregoing in linking him to a man convicted of child molesting. It's all horribly convenient.
Another of my teachers was arrested for the 70's murder which Mr. Jefferies is now being linked with and recounted the story to us when we were at school. As I recall many hundreds of men were questioned in the area, if there was even a hint Mr. Jefferies could have been involved I'm sure he would have been so clearly he has an alibi which media are unaware of in their hunger to tear this guy to pieces.
I was contacted on Friends Reunited yesterday (as I guess all people from my school have been) by an investigative journalist for a Sunday paper. When I expressed my view of what the media was doing to this guy, he claimed to be aiming to put the other side of the story, but I don't buy it.
All of this is going on while a girl remains murdered and the press are reporting (with much less prominence) that our regional police force forgot to check local rubbish until after the weekly collection and several other mistakes. On top of which there are sightings reported locally that we've heard nothing about. The police have more info and pursuing Mr. Jefferies seems desperate to say the least. However, like many recent high profile murders it seems to be the way, to bring in a media suspect just long enough to flush out the real murderer. I hope that's the case, I'd be gobsmacked if Jefferies is charged and if not, I hope he sues the papers for everything as they've already had him executed.
I've been reading every page of this thread for nearly 3 days but have only just been able to register (annoying as there were so many things I wanted to correct). I've been reading along as I've also found the press/Sky coverage really very nasty and at odds with modern justice.
I went to the school in question and know the teacher. I've got friends to this day who were taught directly by him, as was my brother. It's heartening that so many of you who don't know him recognise that the press are butchering his reputation, as I also believe that, knowing of the guy.
Like some of the teachers quoted in the press today (who I also know) I believe there is no way in hell he did it. But rather than drone on at you with opinion on the media, here are some specific points of order:
Maybe it was a different generation but I don't remember a single person in over 5 years calling him "the strange Mr. Jefferies". He did lose his temper in class but so did most of his generation, I also remember him being one of the more "smiley" school masters you would see outside of class (i.e. genuinely positive and content in their jobs) and I recall he also sung "Great Balls of Fire" solo in a school play for the humour value, fully aware how self-depreciating it was. The trouble is the media turn "eccentric" into something distant, evil and untrustworthy when there are positive eccentric people all around us. His back story today is very one-sided.
The 'evil glint in his eye' (one post on here) which has had him convicted from a 30 second Sky interview, is something he's always done and it was always accompanied by a grin that usually reflected passion for whatever he'd be talking about. The guy is an 'old school' English literature teacher, the kind who get off just speaking aloud, he would always have a theatrical way about him when he's speaking, it's no different to someone like Brian Sewell (art critic) who you'd say is equally avant garde and camp but not at all evil. The guy has a passion for our language, he always had a glint in his eye when he was addressing people. Anyone who's ever met him knows that, which therefore makes feedback on his Sky interview (which even Sky seem to be referring to) absolutely irrelevant and misunderstood.
There's some comment in the press about pupils saying he was touchy feely which is obviously being used to present a guy who may come onto Jo Yeates. Yes, he was known to grab people's hands to get across passion for a particular piece of prose, but outside of class the guy was undeniably hugely introverted and would give everyone a wide berth, clutch folders in front of his chest and wear a big scarf. His classroom was where he relaxed but outside of it he had body language of someone who hated his personal space being invaded and didn't deal easily with strangers. I just don't see that going along with what is necessary to take a woman's life, particularly a new tenant he barely knew.
The Mr. Hardyman in the same block who reported that Mr. Jefferies had seen something (and who had been ill in bed) is another old ex-teacher, so while the press today seem to have altered the tone of residents in the block to now being concerned by Jefferies behaviour and comments, it's really no surprise that these claims are from "unnamed" people, the ones who have been named, like Mr. Hardyman I'm sure are supportive of him as former colleagues.
The headmaster of the school interviewed on TV simply wanted to create as much distance between Mr. Jefferies and the school - it was quite distasteful as it effectively cast him further adrift into this media picture of being a strange old loner. I have no doubt Mr. Jefferies IS still known by a number of teachers, and for the head to suggest they had never crossed paths is ludicrous. Clifton College is an open campus which means it's not exclusively within a private off road campus, many of the school buildings line local streets and staff and pupils will be back and forth on local streets on a daily basis, Canynge Road is one of those. There are playing fields on it and boarding houses yards away.
The pedophile link is of someone who worked at the same time as him, the victim was in my year, but calling the two of them friends is a reach - they were the antithesis of each other, for one thing none of you would react to an interview with the convicted child molester in the same way, he was a lot less eccentric, more streetwise and smart talking. The standards the media have applied to Jefferies' interview in singling him out, they're foregoing in linking him to a man convicted of child molesting. It's all horribly convenient.
Another of my teachers was arrested for the 70's murder which Mr. Jefferies is now being linked with and recounted the story to us when we were at school. As I recall many hundreds of men were questioned in the area, if there was even a hint Mr. Jefferies could have been involved I'm sure he would have been so clearly he has an alibi which media are unaware of in their hunger to tear this guy to pieces.
I was contacted on Friends Reunited yesterday (as I guess all people from my school have been) by an investigative journalist for a Sunday paper. When I expressed my view of what the media was doing to this guy, he claimed to be aiming to put the other side of the story, but I don't buy it.
All of this is going on while a girl remains murdered and the press are reporting (with much less prominence) that our regional police force forgot to check local rubbish until after the weekly collection and several other mistakes. On top of which there are sightings reported locally that we've heard nothing about. The police have more info and pursuing Mr. Jefferies seems desperate to say the least. However, like many recent high profile murders it seems to be the way, to bring in a media suspect just long enough to flush out the real murderer. I hope that's the case, I'd be gobsmacked if Jefferies is charged and if not, I hope he sues the papers for everything as they've already had him executed.
nervous_nellie
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whitedove
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I still wonder if J/Y did arrive home, the landlord might have been waiting in the street and asked her if she would like a lift home, then took her elsewhere, her boyfriend said her keys were in her bag, how many people open their door and put the keys back in their bag, most people will just drop them on the table, if she was faced with the landlord coming towards her in her flat, I don't think she would put them back in her bag.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...rchitect-Jo-Yeates-sobs-I-want-Christmas.html
Also in the news, Police have been given more time to quiz the landlord on suspicion of her murder, so maybe they don't have that much evidence, but I can't see them arresting a man without some serious evidence.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...rchitect-Jo-Yeates-sobs-I-want-Christmas.html
Also in the news, Police have been given more time to quiz the landlord on suspicion of her murder, so maybe they don't have that much evidence, but I can't see them arresting a man without some serious evidence.
watchful_eye
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WOW. Just popped in, and AMAZING what former and current tenants are saying. http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/top-stories/2010/12/31/chris-jefferies-tenants-felt-uneasy-when-they-thought-they-spotted-him-peering-into-their-flat-and-asked-to-put-up-net-curtains-115875-22816594/#ixzz19fO5L9p6 I think that IS helpful to the case.
I mean he didn't allow blinds or curtians??? Uhhh, I would NEVER move in ANYWHERE that didn't allow that. And he even let himself into flats without warning?? Isn't all of this illegal? RED FLAG---even BEFORE the murder!! That tenant was changing in the bathroom to avoid the uncovered windows??? What kind of life is that?? It's amazing what people will be willing to put up with, even in a nice neighborhood. WEIRD.
Also, this part of the article is VERY unsettling:
Holy ****. Landlord KNEW Jo's boyfriend was leaving town. He even helped him leave town! Oh dear. Not looking good.
Oh, and not to toot my own horn, but I believe I was right about his sexuality and the murder NOT being sexually motivated:
I still want to hear about more evidence, such as what they found in his flat, if anything, but the whole "no blinds allowed" and trespassing thing are red flags to me.
I mean he didn't allow blinds or curtians??? Uhhh, I would NEVER move in ANYWHERE that didn't allow that. And he even let himself into flats without warning?? Isn't all of this illegal? RED FLAG---even BEFORE the murder!! That tenant was changing in the bathroom to avoid the uncovered windows??? What kind of life is that?? It's amazing what people will be willing to put up with, even in a nice neighborhood. WEIRD.
Also, this part of the article is VERY unsettling:
Holy ****. Landlord KNEW Jo's boyfriend was leaving town. He even helped him leave town! Oh dear. Not looking good.
Oh, and not to toot my own horn, but I believe I was right about his sexuality and the murder NOT being sexually motivated:
I still want to hear about more evidence, such as what they found in his flat, if anything, but the whole "no blinds allowed" and trespassing thing are red flags to me.
Sgt Jones
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I can understand your feelings and think it's great that you are revealing more about Mr J the inspirational and devoted teacher.
I agree some of the media reporting has been grossly unfair and some of the descriptions of Mr J have been embellished, biased and just plain wrong.
However, I can honestly say I am not basing my theory on anything Mr Jefferies may or may not have done when he was a teacher. Nor am I basing it on his appearance or glint in his eye, blue hair, temper, eccentricity etc or his knowing a convicted paedophille.
Based on what I have read from different media sources, and his previous tenants and neighgbours, and stated in my previous post, I honestly think that he had both opportunity and motive but that it was not pre-meditated.
I don't think the police are clutching at straws or being desperate - Mr J it seems, by his own actions has done himself no favours and has contributed to his own situation as a suspect - if he saw Jo on the night she disappeared with two other people why didn't he tell the police as soon as he knew she was missing?
He waited nearly two weeks later to say anything and even then he didn't tell the police.
The police are also looking at the unsolved murder of a young woman from 1974 as it happened close by - and it wouldn't surprise me if they also looked at the Melanie Hall murder as well but that is only natural if only to eliminate any connection - if they didn't, they wouldn't be doing their job.
wfgodot
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Yeates murder: Attorney General warns press to beware of contempt
the rest at
http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2010/dec/31/medialaw-ukcrime
the rest at
http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2010/dec/31/medialaw-ukcrime
wfgodot
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Guardian's Duncan Campbell also has a fine take on perceived strangeness not equalling guilt:
Chris Jefferies and suspects under the spotlight
Jefferies has been marked out as an oddball but many of us might look strange when subjected to a neighbour's scrutiny
Chris Jefferies and suspects under the spotlight
Jefferies has been marked out as an oddball but many of us might look strange when subjected to a neighbour's scrutiny
whitedove
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I don't think we can accuse the landlord of the way he looks, or because he snoops around, he may be checking people are taking care of his property, if it is kept in a mess, it could cost him a lot of money when they move out.
The only evidence we have is the three people he saw leaving the flat, and why he was slow to inform the police, but the police do seem to be removing a lot of stuff from his place, so they must have a reason.
Patticake
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Police are now searching a third car, that of Paul Stanley. Paul Stanley is in the Neighborhood Watch with CJ and helped jump start Greg Reardon's car so that he could visit his brother. Mr. Stanley lives next door in a 7 bedroom mansion. [photo at link].
http://swns.com/jo-yeates-murder-police-examining-third-car-311620.html
..
http://swns.com/jo-yeates-murder-police-examining-third-car-311620.html
..
Patticake
Member
A correction: The name of the neighbor is Peter Stanley.
And a bit of information that CJ is "11 stone". Isn't that 154 pounds [11 X14]? If so, he is rather small.
..
And a bit of information that CJ is "11 stone". Isn't that 154 pounds [11 X14]? If so, he is rather small.
..
The LL probably knew that Jo was alone in the flat. Her BF drove off after his car was jump started. He was alone. Also, he probably told the LL he was going to visit family alone. The BF left at around 7 :00. I don't see the LL going into her flat to snoop around ; he wouldn't know when she would be back ? And besides, he had free access to go into the flat when they were both at work all day. It doesn't add up, IMO....
It makes more sense if he deliberately went into the flat to hurt Jo. He's 65. Wouldn't there have been other,prior incidents of violence ?
And he didn't look to insert himself in the case. He told some neighbors what he saw, and when it hit the papers he tried to distance himself from the case.
There must have been a violent confrontation in that flat. LE took up floorboards,and took the front door. Not saying it wasn't the LL, but I have some doubts... MOO
All JMO
It makes more sense if he deliberately went into the flat to hurt Jo. He's 65. Wouldn't there have been other,prior incidents of violence ?
And he didn't look to insert himself in the case. He told some neighbors what he saw, and when it hit the papers he tried to distance himself from the case.
There must have been a violent confrontation in that flat. LE took up floorboards,and took the front door. Not saying it wasn't the LL, but I have some doubts... MOO
All JMO
wfgodot
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Daily Mail's take on the matter:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ng-hours-talking-detective.html#ixzz19iWB0ZwB
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ng-hours-talking-detective.html#ixzz19iWB0ZwB
Yeah I keep going back to the fact that they removed the door and floorboards.
It seems unusual to me for an investigative team to go to the effort of pulling things like floors and doors out and sending them in for forensic examination except when the crime occurred some time in the past or in other special circumstances. I can't make sense of it other than it makes me think somebody cleaned up the apartment after a violent confrontation at least enough to get rid of any obvious evidence that was out in the open.
LadyL
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so from the picture here, it looks to me like there`s blinds or window coverings on those windows now:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...quizzed-police-12-hour-extension-granted.html
when did that other couple live there - it seems strange to me that a landlord who was so insistent on that couple not having curtains or blinds would now agree to allow it
I am normally a huge LE supporter - this is the very first case I`ve followed on WS where I have serious doubts that they have the right guy.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...quizzed-police-12-hour-extension-granted.html
when did that other couple live there - it seems strange to me that a landlord who was so insistent on that couple not having curtains or blinds would now agree to allow it
I am normally a huge LE supporter - this is the very first case I`ve followed on WS where I have serious doubts that they have the right guy.
wfgodot
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Guardian again:
Joanna Yeates: How fate of 'ideal victim' captured nation's attention
Landscape architect's life 'had resonance' with the public
and more, at
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2010/dec/31/joanna-yeates-murder-bristol
Joanna Yeates: How fate of 'ideal victim' captured nation's attention
Landscape architect's life 'had resonance' with the public
and more, at
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2010/dec/31/joanna-yeates-murder-bristol
maggieo
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Just to make clear: the former tenant said no net curtains or blinds. Net curtains are considered sort of lower class in Britain, if I remember correctly. He probably thought drapes or regular curtains were all right.
If he was very fussy about the condition of the window frames, he wouldn't like the way blinds need to be installed with screws and things. So, maybe suspicious, maybe just a little picky and compulsive.
link to net curtain remark
If he was very fussy about the condition of the window frames, he wouldn't like the way blinds need to be installed with screws and things. So, maybe suspicious, maybe just a little picky and compulsive.
link to net curtain remark
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