GUILTY UK - Joanna Yeates, 25, Clifton, Bristol, 17 Dec 2010 #10

[wfgodot]

Always happy to trot out this 'Silence of the Lambs' snippet and say a word for Marcus Aurelius; perhaps it has some substance in this case as well:

Dr. Lecter: First principles, Clarice. Read Marcus Aurelius. "Of each particular thing, ask: What is it in itself? What is its nature?" What does he do, this man you seek?

Clarice: He kills women.

Dr. Lecter: No, that is incidental. What is the first and principal thing he does, what needs does he serve by killing?

Clarice: Anger, social resentment, sexual frustration …

Dr. Lecter: No, he covets. That's his nature. And how do we begin to covet, Clarice? Do we seek out things to covet? Make an effort to answer, now.

Clarice: No. We just …

Dr. Lecter: No. We begin by coveting what we see every day.

Not sure how often VT would encounter Joanna, but he certainly had the opportunity to see - and to covet - quite often.

 

[wfgodot]

Hi everyone. Just found this site recently & have been "lurking" for a while. Excellent thread, with lots of great points being made!!

Hello casablancas, and welcome to WebSleuths!

 

[Praxis]

Until recently I worked for an architectural practice and almost all staff would, at some point, need to visit sites and attend meetings. However we would often arrange hire cars, or for staff to use one of several pool cars if needed. A lot of people in cities choose not to have 2 cars per household due to parking, running costs etc, so it's feasible that he did not have sole use of a vehicle. Perhaps just the GF kept a car ? We simply do not know and could second guess this issue until we are advised otherwise.

Very true and this would make sense. I'm only assuming until we know more. I also thought, seeing as one of his hobbies is sailing, he might need a car to persue this hobby but of course his GF/friends could be into sailing too and pool a car. Again, all second guessing on my part and none of it answers the question.

 

[goldielox]

Did anyone see this on another forum ?



While this allegation remains, for me at least, obscure and unverifiable, it makes one wonder whether there may not be a lot of background to what happened that has not yet become public.

Christmas just gone, ot the Christmas before? If true and if it relates to the NUA I can't see either Jo or Greg choosing to live in a flat next door to him after that.

 

[little_miss_smart]

My mind is boggled at to why a man who by all reports is a very nice man, everyone who knows him insists he is not the killer. He is successful. He has a girlfriend. So how has this man ended up killing his neighbour whom he had apparently no contact with!!

I do wonder about the reports which say he and his girlfriend had split up and now a report is saying she was at a party 30 miles away the night Joanna went missing. I think he bumped into Joanna and got chatting about Christmas. He maybe got a bit upset that they had broken up or that she was at this party without him. She comforted him but he took it the wrong way and pushed his luck, she rejects him and he snaps.

 

[brownbread]

Christmas just gone, ot the Christmas before? If true and if it relates to the NUA I can't see either Jo or Greg choosing to live in a flat next door to him after that.

That story sounds about as plausible as the pronouncements of Debbie from Facebook. If it were true, the press would have sniffed it out weeks ago. It wouldn't appear on a forum conveniently after the guy in question had just been charged.

 

[Chester]

Considering how cold it was at the time, and the reports of how frozen the body was, I'd very really surprised if decomposition processes had become so established.

From wiki entry on decomposition (no pictures evident):

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decomposition#Exposure_to_the_elements

'In extremely dry or cold conditions, the normal process of decomposition is halted – by either lack of moisture or temperature controls on bacterial and enzymatic action – causing the body to be preserved as a mummy. Frozen mummies commonly restart the decomposition process when thawed (see Ötzi the Iceman)'

Trials have established that Cadaver scent will be picked up by dogs consistently approx 2.5 to 3 hours after death. It can be detected earlier (in as little as just over an hour) but with false positives and false negatives taken into account it cannot be relied on.

 

[Phillb]

The LE will have an idea to when JY was placed at the deposition site the reason the snowfall.
Up to 5 cm's of snow fell over Bristol over Night this would make it the 18th of December Friday the 17th at midnight had just passed making it the 18th that the snow fell, and 2 cm's fell on the Saturday Morning of the 18th of December.

That depth of snow is only two inch of lying snow (maximum) all week on the ground in Bristol.
Not enough to hide a body IMO.

 

[Curious Alice]

That story sounds about as plausible as the pronouncements of Debbie from Facebook. If it were true, the press would have sniffed it out weeks ago. It wouldn't appear on a forum conveniently after the guy in question had just been charged.

I agree. A few sick fantasists out there. Cut from the same cloth as the pond life that sent a note and pizza box to the pub she had been drinking in. Don't these idiots realise that they are impeding an important and incredibly expensive investigation, and their bit of sport could even result in failure to bring a murderer to justice ?

I cannot see that this has a grain of truth, as you say it would have been in the public domain weeks ago. Hope they track the poster down and charge them with wasting police time.

 

[liz b.]

My mind is boggled at to why a man who by all reports is a very nice man, everyone who knows him insists he is not the killer. He is successful. He has a girlfriend. So how has this man ended up killing his neighbour whom he had apparently no contact with!!

I do wonder about the reports which say he and his girlfriend had split up and now a report is saying she was at a party 30 miles away the night Joanna went missing. I think he bumped into Joanna and got chatting about Christmas. He maybe got a bit upset that they had broken up or that she was at this party without him. She comforted him but he took it the wrong way and pushed his luck, she rejects him and he snaps.

Interesting post. I think he had been watching her ever since she moved in there.....

JMO

 

[Sweep the cat]

My mind is boggled at to why a man who by all reports is a very nice man, everyone who knows him insists he is not the killer. He is successful. He has a girlfriend. So how has this man ended up killing his neighbour whom he had apparently no contact with!!

I do wonder about the reports which say he and his girlfriend had split up and now a report is saying she was at a party 30 miles away the night Joanna went missing. I think he bumped into Joanna and got chatting about Christmas. He maybe got a bit upset that they had broken up or that she was at this party without him. She comforted him but he took it the wrong way and pushed his luck, she rejects him and he snaps.

It is not proven yet that he did it....You are only guilty when judged in a court of law.

He may have been set up - a woman scorned - another scenario please dont shoot me for this, but, let us imagine that he did have an affair with Jo and kept in touch with her. He helped her find the flat but it was more than the gf could stand.

Why was Jo dumped by the roadside she must have weighed a ton, was it someone who could not lift her. Did he actually get back to Holland, who was driving the car?

I probably havent read all the facts but its just a thought. jmo.

 

[Trio]

That depth of snow is only two inch of lying snow (maximum) all week on the ground in Bristol.
Not enough to hide a body IMO.

I did not mean to hide the body the snowfall, but what snow was under JY's body, if JY was placed on to bare ground with no snow, just the dirt grass etc,then it had not snowed at that time JY was placed in the Lane, if it had not snowed when JY's body was placed in the Lane, and then it started to snow, JYs body would have blocked any snow going underneath of her body. I suppose the best way I can describe it is, how they used to draw a line around a body in Crime Programme's and what position the body was in, Jo's body would have blocked any snow from going under her body, if the snowfall started after JY was placed in the Lane then there would be on snow on top of her but not underneath of her

However if it had already snowed (it started snowing in the early Hour's of the 18th) at the time JY's body was placed at the site in the Lane, then there would be snow on the ground under her body, and on top of her body.
So the LE must have an idea as to when JY was placed there, as in all deposition sites what is under the body can reveal a lot.

 

[Praxis]

Trials have established that Cadaver scent will be picked up by dogs consistently approx 2.5 to 3 hours after death. It can be detected earlier (in as little as just over an hour) but with false positives and false negatives taken into account it cannot be relied on.

So it depends where the body was stored. Reading from other posts the process could have been haulted due to the temp. If she was stored outside right after being killed ie in the boot of a car for a couple of hours, there might not be a scent left behind at all, in anyone's car?

 

[Phillb]

I did not mean to hide the body the snowfall, but what snow was under JY's body, if JY was placed on to bare ground with no snow, just the dirt grass etc,then it had not snowed at that time JY was placed in the Lane, if it had not snowed when JY's body was placed in the Lane, and then it started to snow, JYs body would have blocked any snow going underneath of her body. I suppose the best way I can describe it is, how they used to draw a line around a body in Crime Programme's and what position the body was in, Jo's body would have blocked any snow from going under her body, if the snowfall started after JY was placed in the Lane then there would be on snow on top of her but not underneath of her

However if it had already snowed at the time JY's body was placed at the site in the Lane, then there would be snow on the ground under her body.
So the LE must have an idea as to when JY was placed there, as in all deposition sites what is under the body can reveal a lot.

Yes thanks for clearing that up Trio. It makes perfect sense indeed, and like i've always said, I can't see the big problem of determining how long the body had been there by judging the snow conditions.

 

[Phillb]

Joanna Yeates family prepares for funeral

The father of Joanna Yeates said today that her family was now focusing on her funeral as her neighbour, Vincent Tabak, prepared to face magistrates charged with her murder.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2011/jan/23/yeates-murder-suspect-appearance

 

[Chester]

So it depends where the body was stored. Reading from other posts the process could have been haulted due to the temp. If she was stored outside right after being killed ie in the boot of a car for a couple of hours, there might not be a scent left behind at all, in anyone's car?

Of course there are so many unknowns, but if you go for the simplest of possibilities, her body will probably have spent enough time in either the flat or a car for there to be some trace.

 

[whiterum]

Detectives interviewed the owner of the car earlier this month but eliminated him at that stage.
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...harged-murder-court-Monday.html#ixzz1BsebTEq2

Asssuming VT was the driver and not the owner of the car who do we know was interviewed earlier this month?

Police also entered a property next to the house where Jo lived in upmarket Clifton, Bristol, and spent three hours inside.

It is owned by engineer PS, a friend of her landlord and murder suspect CJ who was arrested on Thursday.

Mr PS, 56, and former English teacher CJ, 65, jointly run the local Neighbourhood Watch scheme together. They are apparently friends and have known each other for years. Detectives spoke to Mr PS’s tenant, LP, as a witness for more than an hour.

Font design specialist Mr LP, 41, was at home on the day Jo vanished but has only just returned from a Christmas break in France. Mr LP said last night: “I was here when Joanna Yeates disappeared but I didn’t see or hear anything.

Detectives also spoke to Mr PS as a witness and stayed at his house for more than three hours.

At 4pm, Mr PS drove from the home at the wheel of his 1995 burgundy BMW 5 Series flanked by a detective. Two Avon and Somerset police support vans had turned up outside with eight officers who stood by until Mr PS emerged. Mr PS and the police officers then left the scene.

Some 15 minutes later he was dropped back to the house in a police car.

It is believed the BMW was taken to a police station to be forensically examined.

There is two men for a start.

 

[Phillb]

Detectives interviewed the owner of the car earlier this month but eliminated him at that stage.
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...harged-murder-court-Monday.html#ixzz1BsebTEq2

Asssuming VT was the driver and not the owner of the car who do we know was interviewed earlier this month?

Police also entered a property next to the house where Jo lived in upmarket Clifton, Bristol, and spent three hours inside.

It is owned by engineer PS, a friend of her landlord and murder suspect CJ who was arrested on Thursday.

Mr PS, 56, and former English teacher CJ, 65, jointly run the local Neighbourhood Watch scheme together. They are apparently friends and have known each other for years. Detectives spoke to Mr PS’s tenant, LP, as a witness for more than an hour.

Font design specialist Mr LP, 41, was at home on the day Jo vanished but has only just returned from a Christmas break in France. Mr LP said last night: “I was here when Joanna Yeates disappeared but I didn’t see or hear anything.

Detectives also spoke to Mr PS as a witness and stayed at his house for more than three hours.

At 4pm, Mr PS drove from the home at the wheel of his 1995 burgundy BMW 5 Series flanked by a detective. Two Avon and Somerset police support vans had turned up outside with eight officers who stood by until Mr PS emerged. Mr PS and the police officers then left the scene.

Some 15 minutes later he was dropped back to the house in a police car.

It is believed the BMW was taken to a police station to be forensically examined.

There is two men for a start.

Top sleuthing indeed. My hat goes off to you :websleuther:
Another scenario.

C.J has two cars doesn't he? It wouldn't hurt to lend one out therefore (If he was that way good natured)
It seems a little strange he was arrested on what appears nothing more than a bit of misguided hearsay.
He (the owner of the car) was eliminated weeks ago (of sorts)

Both cars also went in for forensics. Of course no DNA would come from any car if the body was wraped up In a bag, or suitcase as has been mentioned.

Points to ponder there.

 

[brownbread]

Detectives interviewed the owner of the car earlier this month but eliminated him at that stage.
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...harged-murder-court-Monday.html#ixzz1BsebTEq2

Asssuming VT was the driver and not the owner of the car who do we know was interviewed earlier this month?

Personally, if this whole thing about the car on the bridge is true....then it's more likely the person who was interviewed was VT himself...either he's the owner of the car, or the newspaper article isn't that carefully worded (wouldn't be the first time).

 

[Phillb]

Personally, if this whole thing about the car on the bridge is true....then it's more likely the person who was interviewed was VT himself...either he's the owner of the car, or the newspaper article isn't that carefully worded (wouldn't be the first time).

Interesting point about the newspaper article you've linked mentions 'him'

''Detectives interviewed the owner of the car earlier this month but eliminated him at that stage''

That would rule out V.T's G.F then.
I wonder how accurate that newspaper source really is?