GUILTY UK - Joanna Yeates, 25, Clifton, Bristol, 17 Dec 2010 #11

[veggiefan]

The closed airport, cancelled buses (Not in Bristol, but yes in nearby Bath) and postponed football matches was due to the icy, and slippy conditions on the roads, and footpaths on the 18th. Not the depth of snow itself, there was an inch dusting in Bristol and surrounding areas. It plays a big factor regarding covering a body, or not covering a body IMO.

The BBC reported rather more snow than that on the 18th:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-bristol-12025793

"About 2in (5cm) of snow fell widely across the city on Saturday morning with more reported in rural locations to the south of Bristol".

Failand is on relatively high ground to the SW of the city and may well have been one of the rural areas more badly affected, as the snow came up from Devon. There was also a report of 10cm of snow in Portishead, to the west of Bristol, that morning.

As I recall, the snow before Christmas was very uneven - some areas got off fairly lightly, but often there was very heavy snow just a couple of miles away.

 

[Phillb]

The BBC reported rather more snow than that on the 18th:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-bristol-12025793

"About 2in (5cm) of snow fell widely across the city on Saturday morning with more reported in rural locations to the south of Bristol".

Failand is on relatively high ground to the SW of the city and may well have been one of the rural areas more badly affected, as the snow came up from Devon. There was also a report of 10cm of snow in Portishead, to the west of Bristol, that morning.

As I recall, the snow before Christmas was very uneven - some areas got off fairly lightly, but often there was very heavy snow just a couple of miles away.

I've done considerable research on the weather conditions that week in, and around Bristol. You have to go on fact, and what actually happened. Take a look at the photo website Bristol flickr group here
http://www.flickr.com/groups/bristol/

There are literally hundreds of shots you can search by date taken that week. The date, and time is all there for conclusive evidence, the location such as Failand, Long Eaton are all tagged.

Very quick search results for that week for starters.
http://www.flickr.com/search/groups/?q=snow&m=pool&w=46594087@N00&s=rec

I challenge you to find a picture that week from Dec 17th-25th with more than 2'' of snow on the ground

 

[whiterum]

RS and MW ... I don't remember what these acronyms mean. Maybe Destroyer or Salem could repost the list? Is one the friend of the brother, the brother of the girlfriend is G, W ... I'm lost.

RS is of the initials of JY's close lady friend and MW is the initials of an aquaintance of JY's brother and an aquaintance of JY's, who she apparently hasn't seen in 18 months but sent a text to him on the way home.

I hope I have that right otto.

 

[bees]

This statement from the Avon and Somerset police is enough to convince me that her body had been covered in snow, as reported.

As a result of the findings of the post mortem, we believe that Joanna's body has been in the roadside verge off Longwood Lane, Failand, for several days before being discovered on Christmas morning.

"I am very keen to hear from anybody who saw or heard anything or anyone acting suspiciously in the Longwood Lane area particularly the area near to the entrance to Durnford Quarry over the last week but in particular the weekend of Friday December 17 to Sunday 19. This was the weekend when we experienced heavy snow in the area.

The snow that weekend was very patchy. I went to Bristol airport on 19th and clearly remember that some areas around north Somerset looked like they were covered in more than 2 inches of snow and there was some drifting in places. We stuck to the main gritted roads but you could see that the fields and peoples gardens were smothered. The fact is, if you cover something in a couple of inches of snow, it's not visible and the shape blends in to the background.

 

[Patticake]

From the Sun:
Chris Jefferies says he will be cleared in days and that his ordeal is almost over. However, the A&S says he is still on bail and the situation has not changed.

More here:

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/3375781/Chris-Jefferies-Ill-be-cleared-in-days.html

.

 

[Phillb]

This statement from the Avon and Somerset police is enough to convince me that her body had been covered in snow, as reported.



The snow that weekend was very patchy. I went to Bristol airport on 19th and clearly remember that some areas around north Somerset looked like they were covered in more than 2 inches of snow and there was some drifting in places. We stuck to the main gritted roads but you could see that the fields and peoples gardens were smothered. The fact is, if you cover something in a couple of inches of snow, it's not visible and the shape blends in to the background.

See for yourself Bees.
The conclusive proof is there if your willing to look for it
Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Found Deceased UK - Joanna Yeates Clifton, Bristol, 17 December 2010 - #11[/urlame]


It's also very debateable if Failand is infact higher than Bristol.

It does after all state that Bristol was built on a ridge of high ground amid the marshland that bordered the Rivers Frome and Avon. The old city was established in the shape of the holy cross on higher ground above marshy land. This topography offered an ideal place to establish a settlement that could be defended from attack. The Avon Gorge and the river’s tides also provided natural protection. Invaders would be hopelessly vulnerable and probably get stuck trying to reach the town by coming up the river.

After an initial short climb from the suspension bridge, the roads fall downgrade all the way to Durnford Quarry.

We are only talking a short distance of 2-3 miles away. You can't realistically explain away some dramatic weather change phenomena like Mount Everest here.

 

[bees]

See for yourself Bees.
The conclusive proof is there if your willing to look for it
Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Found Deceased UK - Joanna Yeates Clifton, Bristol, 17 December 2010 - #11

Thanks Phill. I did look at those photos before and I don't doubt what they show but there's no photo of what the verge in Longwood Lane looked like from 18th - 25th and that's the point. The pathologist's evidence points towards her being on that spot for "several days" and the police report says that there was heavy snow in the area that weekend so on balance, that's the more convincing conclusion to me. If other pathology, forensic or witness evidence contradicting that comes to light then the conclusion would have to be altered.

 

[Phillb]

Thanks Phill. I did look at those photos before and I don't doubt what they show but there's no photo of what the verge in Longwood Lane looked like from 18th - 25th and that's the point.

You can see an inch of snow on the verge while the girls body is still there.
Surely this must satisfy you? No thaw occured that week, that's how it was all week.

 

[aneurin]

The snow that weekend was very patchy. I went to Bristol airport on 19th and clearly remember that some areas around north Somerset looked like they were covered in more than 2 inches of snow and there was some drifting in places. We stuck to the main gritted roads but you could see that the fields and peoples gardens were smothered. The fact is, if you cover something in a couple of inches of snow, it's not visible and the shape blends in to the background.

See for yourself Bees.
The conclusive proof is there if your willing to look for it
Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Found Deceased UK - Joanna Yeates Clifton, Bristol, 17 December 2010 - #11

So faced with the choice of an eyewitness who was actually there at the time and a few snaps on a photo-sharing website where it's impossible to tell anything other than the fact that it had indeed snowed, you'd pick the latter.

 

[Phillb]

So faced with the choice of an eyewitness who was actually there at the time and a few snaps on a photo-sharing website where it's impossible to tell anything other than the fact that it had indeed snowed, you'd pick the latter.

You can't get away from fact.
I challenge you to prove me wrong. Go on. See if you can.
Put your money where you mouth is. Show me conclusive deep snow and you win
The internet is an amazing research tool. Use it.
(But not press quotes, assumptions, Just hard factual evidence)

 

[Pisces Cloud]

The "_____ help me" is unusual. It was reported by someone that has an apartment in the building facing Joanna's flat. He was on his computer, heard the cry, went outside for about 10 seconds, saw how icey it was and assumed that it was someone that slipped on the ice. It was several days later that he realized that it may be significant and reported it to police. He thought that it was around midnight, and went back into his internet history to try to pinpoint a time, but was unable.

There were also two screams heard by someone attending a Christmas party across the street. The person that heard the screams was unsure whether they were cries for help or season celerations ... but the screams at 9 correspond better with the half full cider bottle and uneaten pizza.

I more or less ruled that guy out because he says he couldn't remember if it was the 18th or not, but agree that the 9pm ones do correspond better because at least two people heard them at the same time.

 

[bees]

I've had another look at those photos and this one is interesting.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/48028479@N00/5308749767/

It was taken on 18th December in Bristol and in the bottom right section there's a pile of something but you can't see exactly what it is. If you were passing that sort of image from 15 ft away it wouldn't necessarily jump out at you. Also bear in mind that her clothes were green and grey so even if bits of them were exposed, they'd be the same colour as the verge. Further snow fell after that and it all froze for days. It seems entirely possible to me that a body could have been undiscovered in those conditions.

 

[Phillb]

It had just snowed Bees on the 18th. Snow cover isn't the same 6 days later. See all the snow free branches on the December 25th shot above to get the idea.

 

[bees]

You can't get away from fact.
I challenge you to prove me wrong. Go on. See if you can.
Put your money where you mouth is. Show me conclusive deep snow and you win
The internet is an amazing research tool. Use it.
(But not press quotes, assumptions, Just fact)

Why do you think you need deep snow to disguise a body on a verge? Just a couple of inches would blend it into the background.

 

[bees]

It had just snowed Bees on the 18th. Snow cover isn't the same 6 days later. See all the snow free branches on the December 25th shot above to get the idea.

Which probably explains why the body was discovered on 25th and not before.

 

[Phillb]

Why do you think you need deep snow to disguise a body on a verge? Just a couple of inches would blend it into the background.

No reports state she changed clothing. The Police never said she definitely reached home because she had changed clothes. She was just missing a sock.

Therefore she had black trousers on, and a dark green top. Not the best colours for shallow white snow camouflage really. She was a 5'4'' adult and would be rather noticeable.

 

[aneurin]

You can't get away from fact.
I challenge you to prove me wrong. Go on. See if you can.
Put your money where you mouth is. Show me conclusive deep snow and you win
The internet is an amazing research tool. Use it.
(But not press quotes, assumptions, Just hard factual evidence)

With respect, and at the risk of descending into bickering, you have a rather selective view of what constitutes "hard factual evidence". An eyewitness report apparently doesn't qualify, neither does a report by the BBC. Apparently the only thing that counts as 'hard factual evidence' are photographs taken around about that time at various locations somewhere roundabout, none of which feature any kind of convenient measuring device and therefore are proof of nothing more than the fact that it had snowed sometime before the photograph was taken.

 

[aneurin]

It does after all state that Bristol was built on a ridge of high ground amid the marshland that bordered the Rivers Frome and Avon ....

For the full description go to;
http://www.buildinghistory.org/bristol/floods.shtml

Names like Canon's Marsh and Marsh Street are a reminder that Bristol was built on a ridge of high ground amid the marshland that bordered the Rivers Frome and Avon. Over the centuries the city spread out over the Avon flood plain. The dangers of that broke upon Bristol in November 1703, when a great storm swept over England. The tide thrust up the Avon with such force that it submerged half of Bristol.

All of which means that the old City (not that there's much left of it these days) was at sea level.

 

[bees]

No reports state she changed clothing. The Police never said she definitely reached home because she had changed clothes. She was just missing a sock.

Therefore she had black trousers on, and a dark green top. Not the best colours for shallow white snow camouflage really. She was a 5'4'' adult and would be rather noticeable.

The green wasn't that dark and the trousers were grey. The verge would be various shades of green and brown and the boulder is grey. I agree that a body shape would stand out in a completely flat area such as on a pavement but this was a verge and people tend not to see things they don't expect to see (think of the famous gorilla among the basketball players video). An uneven shape on a snowy verge, covered in a couple of inches of snow and in natural colours wouldn't necessarily register as a body. It could have been bin bags or a crumpled tarpaulin and the peripheral vision of people passing wouldn't pick up something to draw their attention.

 

[Phillb]

With respect, and at the risk of descending into bickering, you have a rather selective view of what constitutes "hard factual evidence". An eyewitness report apparently doesn't qualify, neither does a report by the BBC. Apparently the only thing that counts as 'hard factual evidence' are photographs taken around about that time at various locations somewhere roundabout, none of which feature any kind of convenient measuring device and therefore are proof of nothing more than the fact that it had snowed sometime before the photograph was taken.

Just show me one deep snow picture at anytime Dec 17th-25th. Or one Weather report, One news article.That's all. You then prove me wrong.

I'm going to leave this snow thing now. What matters is to use good evidence through observation, context of judgment, and all relevant criteria for making the judgment well. That's called critical thinking.

You form your opinion, and I'll certainly be sticking with mine