GUILTY UK - Joanna Yeates, 25, Clifton, Bristol, 17 Dec 2010 #11

[Deckard]

Great point made thanks enqueteur.
Not really wanting to go into this snow thing again. But yes you are quite right indeed, it isn't like sprinkling sugar on a glued surface. Light snow falls don't adhere to every rounded surface at the sides. And then what has accumulated on the sides is fighting a loosing battle with gravity. It gradually falls off. Only heavy snow covers everything.

Anyway to the point in question.

I've actually found (much to my gobsmacked astonishment ) what I first thought was a frozen dead body photograph. It's actually a picture of a 19 year old woman called Jean Hilliard who's car broke down in minus 25 tempratures overnight. She was frozen solid and looked dead. There was no signs of life, no movement. She was as good as dead, and everyone thought she was.

Incredibly she survived with no ill effects at all.

I'll not post the picture here as I feel it wouldn't be right, but will add the link to the story if anyone wants to look. It isn't a horryfing picture or anything, Just completely bizarre. It certainly makes clear in my mind the doubt of light snow cover being able to hide an adult body.
http://forum.santabanta.com/showthread.htm?t=172543

Amazing that the woman is still alive there, and very uncanny how she too has dark grey/black trousers, and a Green top on. I've posted this because I feel visual things are far better at focusing the mind to think clearer.

The picture is also gives us some idea of what those dog walkers must have seen. It wouldn't have been the bright and bubbly photos we've seen on the net. A very sobering thought really., It does bring it all home with a bang. Very sad

That is a picture of a $1200 mannequin Phil http://www.casualtysimulation.com/gallery/v/simulation-bodies/female_frozen_body/

 

[Phillb]

That is a picture of a $1200 mannequin Phil http://www.casualtysimulation.com/gallery/v/simulation-bodies/female_frozen_body/

Yeah I've just seen. How realistic though.
The net is full of ''The Ice Woman of Lengby Minnesota'' hoaxes lol
The Ice Woman of Lengby Minnesota'' - Google Search

 

[Deckard]

You nearly had me believing it lol

 

[Cherwell]

Meaning how snow covers arms and legs at the side, or in reality it can't cover them in shallow snow. All the bits that stick out e.t.c. I doubt the body was completely flat like a wrapped mummy.

She was supposed to be covered in snow for 7 days don't forget. Otherwise she'd have been found earlier
(If it was there)

Make sense to you now? :waitasec:

No - because that body - real or artificial - is not pictured lying undisturbed under a fall of two or three inches of snow, but on a bare hard surface.

It tells me nothing of how the body of JY may have appeared on a snowy roadside verge.:dunno:

 

[Phillb]

No - because that body - real or artificial - is not pictured lying undisturbed under a fall of two or three inches of snow, but on a bare hard surface.

It tells me nothing of how the body of JY may have appeared on a snowy roadside verge.:dunno:

Yes you are quite right.
You have to use your imagination for that

You look quite familiar Cherwell considering you've just joined the forum today. Sure you haven't been posting on this forum before?

 

[weeeva]

I've been thinking, there was conceivably an attempt to resuscitate. Saliva can be transferred by hand, for example after wiping one's mouth.

Good thinking moshimoshi, and not too far fetched either. I wonder if the police have thought of this.

 

[Cherwell]

You look quite familiar Cherwell considering you've just joined the forum today. Sure you haven't been on this forum before?

:no: I have lurked for a while, just not got around to joining. Like a lot of others I guess.

 

[Lynn R]

Yes you are quite right.
You have to use your imagination for that

You look quite familiar Cherwell considering you've just joined the forum today. Sure you haven't been posting on this forum before?

Theres a few like that - its always the way on any forum

 

[angel10510]

I wonder what happened with Otto's experiment.

 

[enqueteur]

This was posted a few hours ago on Avon & Somerset's FB page:

In the light of the arrest of Vincent Tabak we are now considering the impact of this on other aspects of the investigation. A 66 year old man remains on police bail.

This investigation is still live and passing through the criminal justice ...process therefore we cannot comment further on this.


Look s like CJ had a birthday and no birthday present.

 

[Phillb]

I wonder what happened with Otto's experiment.

Hope he hasn't got stuck outside

 

[bees]

A couple of weeks ago, the Telegraph and the Sun reported an item handed into the police that was going for soil and pollen tests. Has there been any update on that reported anywhere?
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukn...highly-significant-piece-of-new-evidence.html

 

[Truth Hunter]

There may be possible reasons why the dog walkers did not spot JY's body earlier... if she had lain there for several days before the 25th.

Most of the dog walkers I would guess whould come from the upper part of Long Ashton -which is the closest residential area, via Providence lane crossing the B3128 into Longwood.

I think they wouldn't venture too far along this lane, certainly not venture onto the quarry side of the road(there seems to be about 100 yards of the road reserved for lorry movements - dotted line up to where JY was found) - would have their pets on a leash for obvious reasons and perhaps usually turn into the Timberland Trail entrance where they can walk their dog(s) safely etc..

On the 25th when there was no distraction from the quarry entrance activity and perhaps other traffic - maybe they stopped to enter/exit at the trail entrance, where maybe one of the couple spotted it across the road.


As I live in Bristol I can vouch that there was a second snowfall 19th/20th which left about 2 -3 inches where I live on the outskirts, SW of the city and the countryside to the west of the city(the snow came in from the west where it was worse in those regions.

 

[Deckard]

My doubts over the body deposition date were the only thing ruling VT out for me.

"He can't be in two places at once" I thought."Has to be an unknown stalker who can come and go at will."

If it can be proven that the body lay in Longwood Lane since 17th December then it is right that he is the main suspect.

Does anyone have anything resembling a possible alibi timeline for his movements 17th to 25th December?

 

[Phillb]

My doubts over the body deposition date were the only thing ruling VT out for me.

"He can't be in two places at once" I thought."Has to be an unknown stalker who can come and go at will."

If it can be proven that the body lay in Longwood Lane since 17th December then it is right that he is the main suspect.

Does anyone have anything resembling a possible alibi timeline for his movements 17th to 25th December?

The only thing that appears to be certain from what I can see, is he was in Cambridge on Christmas Eve and Day with T.M. What time he got to Cambridge I don't know. That's according to a spokesman for the family.
I can't see that being an untrue statement after he was arrested. Although nothing is certain with this case.

 

[Deckard]

Did TM and VT both break off work for the holidays on Friday 17th then ?

This seems unusually early. I can never remember getting a Christmas break a full week before Christmas Day when I worked in a civil engineering office.
If I can remember, the in-office drinks party wasn't until the 22nd.

 

[Robin Hood]

Nothing much has been reported about when the firms broke up including the quarry.
If I had to guess I'd say people were having drinks and office parties on the 17th because a lot would close up early on Xmas eve the following friday.

Tm was reportedly at her party in Bath on 17th
JY had some drinks with workmates on 17th
JY's brothers friend was at his party on the 17th

 

[bees]

VT told reporters he was away the night JY went missing but he didn't confirm the date or any other details.

 

[Deckard]

That makes more sense. So everyone back to work on Monday 20th December.

If the killer operated in the small hours maybe it wouldn't make any difference either way.

The more we get an insight into the case the more senseless the murder becomes. There is something about imagining Jo frozen in Longwood Lane with one sock on that stupidly gets to me. I know she was found " as if asleep " but there is just something callous about it.

I hope they get the right man.

 

[Blue Bottle]

You nearly had me believing it lol

Hi, the picture may be a mannequin, but the story itself appears to be true according to original news sources... happened in 1981.

Appears as if the actual incident has been blown right out of proportion over the years and has had some extra 'details' added in... like she was cured through prayer.... and somehow has become some sort of an Ice Woman 'miracle'.

http://books.google.co.za/books?id=...Aw#v=onepage&q=JeanHilliard ice woman&f=false

http://www.nytimes.com/1981/01/03/us/dakota-teen-ager-recovers-after-being-frozen-stiff.html

However, at the time of the incident, it was said that it's not that rare that freezing victims survive such severe hyperthermia.

http://skepticdetective.files.wordpress.com/2010/01/frozen-people.jpg