GUILTY UK - Joanna Yeates, 25, Clifton, Bristol, 17 Dec 2010 #12

[MMENJBRIT]

I took a look at the A&S website with the video feeds... to me they don't appear to be too agressive at truly revisiting this unresolved murder. The L/E individuals appear passive to me.

I log on here every day because in the back of my mind something is not adding up. I keep thinking someone is going to turn up some snippet of information that will make all the difference.

In a way the fact that VT was arrested just before the crime watch episode, stopped the show being aired.... who knows what would have jogged a memory... even linking something back to 1974?

i am still getting the feeling that someone is being 'protected' and that it is hoped that between now and the trial people will have put this tragic murder asside. I hope that this is not the case, and that the true murderer (whoever that is, can be brought to justice).

 

[whiterum]

Why not visit the police page for Glenis Carruthers. (1974 murder victim)

On the left side of the page and third video down you can watch Major Crime Investigation Officer Carrie Garret talk about the murder.

For what it is worth my instinct keeps telling me her killer is still in Bristol and could have even had their name in print in recent months.

See what you deduce from this:

http://www.avonandsomerset.police.uk/newsroom/special_appeals/glenis-carruthers/index.aspx

That was very interesting Mystery64. I really hope they have found or find something on Glenis's possessions to identify the killer. I wonder who the guest was who suggested she go outside for some fresh air. Did someone follow her from the party. This evil man has walked free for 37 years, I hope her family live to see this murderer caught and made to answer for what he has done.

 

[fudge]

I took a look at the A&S website with the video feeds... to me they don't appear to be too agressive at truly revisiting this unresolved murder. The L/E individuals appear passive to me.

I log on here every day because in the back of my mind something is not adding up. I keep thinking someone is going to turn up some snippet of information that will make all the difference.

In a way the fact that VT was arrested just before the crime watch episode, stopped the show being aired.... who knows what would have jogged a memory... even linking something back to 1974?

i am still getting the feeling that someone is being 'protected' and that it is hoped that between now and the trial people will have put this tragic murder asside. I hope that this is not the case, and that the true murderer (whoever that is, can be brought to justice).

I keep logging on for the same reasons something doesnt seem right. Maybe its straightforward and we dont have enough info time will tell I guess

 

[Cherwell]

Thinking about the 2 murders in Bristol, it occurred to me that GH and CJ had probably been in contact with both girls.

Did CJ also live/work in Bristol at that time 1974? If so, it is a strange coincidence that two men who live in the same block, had been in contact with two young girls who had both been strangled.

I've seen nothing to suggest that CJ ever met Glenis. She was a visitor to Bristol, and was only there for the party as a friend of GH's much younger cousin.

I wonder who the guest was who suggested she go outside for some fresh air.

No one knows why she left the party. Don't forget that a man who was almost certainly her killer was seen leaving her body. The witness would surely have picked out any party guest who resembled this man. Had it been a student-type party one would need to allow for gatecrashers or friends-of-friends-of-friends, but this was a family party where everyone was known.

 

[veggiefan]

I've seen nothing to suggest that CJ ever met Glenis. She was a visitor to Bristol, and was only there for the party as a friend of GH's much younger cousin.

In fact, Sandra Hardyman is not even that closely related to GH: she is his first cousin once removed (i.e. the daughter of his cousin). He was twice her age in 1974.

 

[whiterum]

=Cherwell;6137851]I've seen nothing to suggest that CJ ever met Glenis. She was a visitor to Bristol, and was only there for the party as a friend of GH's much younger cousin.

No one knows why she left the party

I see CJ wasn't one of those questioned at the time, I wonder if any of those who recently had to give a DNA sample were questioned at that time.

More than 16,000 people were interviewed by police as part of the Glenis Carruthers investigation. Avon and Somerset Police said Mr Jefferies, who had just started his job as an English master at Clifton College at the time, was not among them.

The Chief Investigator said on the video that someone suggested that Glenis go outside for some fresh air as she felt ill. The CI was probably giivng one of the suggestions as to why Glenis may have went outside

 

[whiterum]

So the killer was on the grass kneeling over poor Glenis when the witness passed with his dogs and was still there when he walked back again.
It is also strange he didn't run off when questioned but calmly walked off. The zookeeper should have set the dogs on him, ripped the arse out of his trousers, he wouldn’t have been so cocky then in more ways than one. There would have been plenty of dna material left behind which would have identified him long ago.

I think this was mentioned before the fact that Glenis borrowed a friends coat to go outside. If it's a similar one in the video it is a long distinctive coat with a fur trim. Maybe since the area was so dark, Glenis was mistaken for someone else.

 

[kINGFISHER]

Yes I agree MMENJBRIT a little too long to leave it if they intend to charge CJ and probably hoping that public interest will die down, but who knows.


As well as GC and JY , CJ and VT had connections to Bath VT was not in this country and was too young at the time of M Hs murder in Bath. M H another blond twenty four year old was dumped on a grass verge just off the road like Jo, but we don't know anymore details about how she was left. C.J was a prolific leaflet distributor in Bath for the Liberal Democrats, in what area.? So many connections to be just coincidence.

 

[naturally suspicious]

Yes I agree MMENJBRIT a little too long to leave it if they intend to charge CJ and probably hoping that public interest will die down, but who knows.


As well as GC and JY , CJ and VT had connections to Bath VT was not in this country and was too young at the time of M Hs murder in Bath. M H another blond twenty four year old was dumped on a grass verge just off the road like Jo, but we don't know anymore details about how she was left. C.J was a prolific leaflet distributor in Bath for the Liberal Democrats, in what area.? So many connections to be just coincidence.

a clever point....
remind me if the police can say how melanie was killed?
Just bones found off m4/5 wasn't it?

But you, Kingfisher, have made a very interesting (to me) point....

 

[veggiefan]

This evil man has walked free for 37 years

Not necessarily. It's quite possible that he's in jail for other offences, but has never been linked to (or charged with) the 1974 murder.

In fact, I've often wondered if the culprit could have been John Cannan, now serving life sentences for the abduction and murder of women in Bristol. He has a police record dating back to 1968 and fits the description of Glenis's assailant with regard to age and hair. He has long connections with Bristol and at one time lived less than a mile from Clifton Down. He was named by the police as the person most likely responsible for the disappearance of Suzy Lamplugh, although never charged through lack of evidence. He was also a prime suspect in the murder of Sandra Court (killed with a ligature - a device that Cannan used in some other attacks). Police informants have reported that he has hinted at other murders while in prison.

Police have even suggested a possible link to the murder of Melanie Hall, as Cannan is said to have discussed the "perfect abduction" with fellow prisoner Christopher Clark, a rapist who was jailed for life for attacking another woman a month after being interviewed over Hall's disappearance. Cannan was said to want a "murder by proxy" committed similar to that of Banks' murder; Hall's murder has similarities to Banks' murder as both were attractive, young, blonde, professional women who died of head injuries. (this paragraph from the Wiki entry on Cannan)

Of course, I'm sure that LE would have looked into this possibility when the Glenis case was reopened, so there is presumably no evidence that it was Cannan, but I'm just making the point that if we are thinking of a serial killer, it doesn't necessarily follow that it is someone who is still walking free.

 

[kINGFISHER]

Have just seen a picture of MH she looks so much like JY.

Just because she was beat about the head, would not necessary eliminate a connection with JY. Was MH also strangled afterwards left without her clothes ,shoes etc as in certain killings. We are not privy to that information One variation in the killing means little in this case. The police have always expected there to be more than one killer involved.

 

[Cherwell]

In fact, Sandra Hardyman is not even that closely related to GH: she is his first cousin once removed (i.e. the daughter of his cousin). He was twice her age in 1974.

Yes, I was using 'cousin' in a broad sense. (I was close to my own father's older cousins and called them 'uncle' or 'aunt'.) It all just stresses the fact that it was a real family party embracing all ages and generations, and that it was unlikely that there were any comparative strangers there. We don't know, of course, if Sandra invited any young male friends, but we can be sure any such were checked out.

It is also strange he didn't run off when questioned but calmly walked off.

It shows remarkable self-possession and confidence. Running away would leave the witness in no doubt that a crime had been committed or attempted, but just getting up and walking away was less likely to attract attention.

As it turned out, the witness was a decisive person who took immediate action ... but it could easily have been someone who was reluctant to get involved, and dismissed it as a lovers' tiff type of thing.

 

[kINGFISHER]

Murder victim Melanie Hall had suffered "significant injuries" including a fractured skull and jaw, police said today.

The 25-year-old's bones were found in a bag near the M5 north of Bristol on October 5, 13 years after she went missing following a night out in Bath.

Detective Superintendent Mike Courtiour, who is leading the investigation for Avon and Somerset Police, today said a pathologist had been unable to give a definite cause of death.

But he revealed that Miss Hall's body was found covered in black bin bags tied up with a long length of thin blue rope.


Interesting, no definate cause of death.

 

[naturally suspicious]

Not necessarily. It's quite possible that he's in jail for other offences, but has never been linked to (or charged with) the 1974 murder.

In fact, I've often wondered if the culprit could have been John Cannan, now serving life sentences for the abduction and murder of women in Bristol. He has a police record dating back to 1968 and fits the description of Glenis's assailant with regard to age and hair. He has long connections with Bristol and at one time lived less than a mile from Clifton Down. He was named by the police as the person most likely responsible for the disappearance of Suzy Lamplugh, although never charged through lack of evidence. He was also a prime suspect in the murder of Sandra Court (killed with a ligature - a device that Cannan used in some other attacks). Police informants have reported that he has hinted at other murders while in prison.

Police have even suggested a possible link to the murder of Melanie Hall, as Cannan is said to have discussed the "perfect abduction" with fellow prisoner Christopher Clark, a rapist who was jailed for life for attacking another woman a month after being interviewed over Hall's disappearance. Cannan was said to want a "murder by proxy" committed similar to that of Banks' murder; Hall's murder has similarities to Banks' murder as both were attractive, young, blonde, professional women who died of head injuries. (this paragraph from the Wiki entry on Cannan)

Of course, I'm sure that LE would have looked into this possibility when the Glenis case was reopened, so there is presumably no evidence that it was Cannan, but I'm just making the point that if we are thinking of a serial killer, it doesn't necessarily follow that it is someone who is still walking free.

Thanks for that link to John Canaan...I'd forgotten how evil he was...

 

[kINGFISHER]

Only part of M Hs bones were found, police think items were taken as trophies, does that include the bones. If so this case would definitely have more in common with JYs case.
The keys found by M.Hs body were they a plant or could they belong to some of those involved in JY case whose cars have been taken for forensic evidence. Have the police traced cars these people owned prior to the ones they own now and would any DNA show up on the keys. The thing is we dont know what the Police might be working on now. Something I hope.

 

[aneurin]

Melanie Hall was last seen alive in a nightclub, suffered significant injuries before her death, (probable cause of death, blunt force trauma) and her body was dumped, bound with a blue rope, in a location where it wasn't found for thirteen years.

Jo Yeates was abducted from home, suffered no injuries, and her body was dumped in a location where its discovery was inevitable, and without any attempt at concealment.

Two different MOs, two different perps.

 

[PolkSaladAnnie]

Just taken forever to catch up since my last post way back when in this thread. Informative reading! I think A&S Police and legal teams must have issued a gag-order or media ban on further publicity as all is now too quiet. The last official news we heard was VT's family spokesperson issuing a release to the media that they wish to write to Jo's family, but will do so after the funeral.

Does anyone feel VT would have been held, charged and remanded in custody until trial if the evidence (that the public don't know about), is weak? I'm concerned bail application was dropped, he was put on suicide watch and moved 3 times. Same thing happened to Ian Huntley, perish the thought of his name.

Could it be that VT's lawyers realised bail would be denied because if so, the reasons would have been made public and that would mean more negative publicity. I still follow my earlier thoughts that JY discovered something shocking and VT believed he had no option but to silence her. This is going to be one of "those" trials! Enjoy your Sunday everyone. Thanks for your thoughts and views.

PSA

 

[Cherwell]

I think A&S Police and legal teams must have issued a gag-order or media ban on further publicity as all is now too quiet.

No, this is nothing to do with the police. It is normal practice in the UK. Once a suspect has been charged, no further reporting or speculation is allowed until the trial (except for factual reports of court appearances etc).

 

[veggiefan]

I think A&S Police and legal teams must have issued a gag-order or media ban on further publicity as all is now too quiet.

It was, in fact, the Attorney General (Dominic Grieve) who warned newspaper editors of their duty not to prejudice any future trial, following the intense speculation when CJ was taken in for questioning. As Cherwell has said, it is normal practice to restrict reporting to purely factual matters once the legal process is under way.

Could it be that VT's lawyers realised bail would be denied because if so, the reasons would have been made public and that would mean more negative publicity.

The reasons for an objection to bail were given by the prosecutor. I forget the exact wording, but they implied that as a foreign national VT might attempt to leave the country, and that if released on bail, he might tamper with evidence (which suggests to me that LE haven't yet got all the evidence they would have liked). Consequently VT's barrister didn't apply for bail - he probably also bore in mind that it is quite rare for release on bail when the charge is as serious as murder, and that VT could well have been hunted down by vigilantes (and the press) if he was not secure in prison.

 

[kINGFISHER]

PolkSaladAnie Does anyone feel VT would have been held, charged and remanded in custody until trial if the evidence (that the public don't know about), is weak? I'm concerned bail application was dropped, he was put on suicide watch and moved 3 times. Same thing happened to Ian Huntley, perish the thought of his name.

I agree on this point PolkSaladAnnie but believe he is not the only one involved.

The three murders GC , JY and MH were similar in that all three had an element of trophy killings, In JY and GC it was certain footwear in MH Case it was a some bones and clothes. The Police would only be too aware of the type of killer/killers they are dealing with.

13 Oct 2009 ... Melanie Hall, the hospital worker whose remains were found last week 13 ... A pathologist has been unable to give a definite cause of death, ..