GUILTY UK - Joanna Yeates, 25, Clifton, Bristol, 17 Dec 2010 #12

[goldielox]

His defence could always be

“Certainly not a peephole sir, I was merely conducting a survey, observing the simulation of human movement, the interaction between the occupants while performing their activities and the utilisation of space capacity in the bathroom next door”.

Would the jury fall for it or think Space Cadet?

:great:

I think that defence would be tame compared with what LP might come up with, if faced with the same situation.

"Well I was just checking what fonts they used on the medicine bottles in their bathroom cabinet to assist in my research about Greeks and their willies.."

 

[Distant Observer]

A post-mortem concluded that she died from severe head injuries. Her body was then wrapped in black bin bags and tied with blue rope before being left in vegetation alongside the motorway slip-road.

So it has been determined that it was her body that was left at the site, so that eliminates option (a). And if you intended to return to the body and remove some bones, why make like difficult for yourself and wrap the body in black bin bags and parcel it up with blue rope?

Reading the discussion of Melanie Hall's 'murder', to me the circumstances clearly point to a 'hit and dispose of the body' road accident. Imagine if I was a speeding driver who had had too much to drink and Melanie crosses the road in front of me. I brake but it is too late, she is knocked over by my car/van and hits her head on the kerb. I get out of the vehicle, realise that her body is lifeless and then I panic. If I report the accident, I run the risk of being sent to prison for years. I do though have the presence of mind to realise that if there is no body by the roadside then the police will not be looking for the car that is involved in the accident. I have in the boot of my car a length of blue rope which is both a makeshift tow-rope and which I have also used for securing items on my roofrack. I also have a roll of black bin bags in the boot. I quickly cover her with the bin bags which I then secure around her with the rope. I put the body in the car where I leave it till the following night when I have had the opportunity to sober up. I remember that a certain slip road has a steep slope to the side of it and realise that that would be a good place to 'dump the package'. I go out in the dead of night and dispose of the body. Nobody sees me and no-one realises that Melanie has been killed in a road accident. In my mind, I am not an evil person but this 'accident' would devastate my life and I cannot turn the clock back. What has happened has been terrible but the consequences would be worse for me.

I believe some driver has been living with this guilty secret and the recent discovery of her body will have made the pain unbearable. As he is unlikely to be caught he will live with that guilt forever.

 

[Cherwell]

That's a pretty convincing theory. But where might it have been deserted enough for such an accident to have happened without any witnesses?

 

[aneurin]

And it wouldn't explain why her head was bashed in with a blunt instrument.

 

[kINGFISHER]

http://www.thisisbristol.co.uk/news...anie-Hall/article-1410424-detail/article.html

Interesting ?

 

[naturally suspicious]

http://www.thisisbristol.co.uk/news...anie-Hall/article-1410424-detail/article.html

Interesting ?

scary...

 

[Cherwell]

And it wouldn't explain why her head was bashed in with a blunt instrument.

I thought the explanation would be injuries from impact with the car or kerb, possibly both.

 

[MMENJBRIT]

RE: Posted by kINGFISHER



http://www.thisisbristol.co.uk/news/...l/article.html

Interesting ?

Kingfisher... more than interesting, the Perp was 5'9" to 5'10"..? I wonder if they ever had anyone on their suspect's list that matched this description? Again with A&E you have to really delve to find this information.

 

[Cherwell]

There was more:

Linda .... described the man as being between 5ft 9in and 5ft 10in, with sandy blond hair and quite thick set, but from the one sentence he ever spoke to her she could detect no accent.

 

[Prickle]

Israeli Scientists Prove DNA Evidence Can Be Faked

So, you thought that DNA evidence was foolproof? Think again. Headline from the link I have pasted below.

I wonder if it is at all possible the DNA found on JY was planted by someone intending to frame VT for her murder. Maybe I have been watching too many movies but it occurred to me it is a possibility. I decided to do a little research and I came across this website which I think is very interesting. What do you think?



http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/132965


"DNA is a lot easier to plant at a crime scene than fingerprints," Tania Simoncelli, ACLU science adviser told the San Francisco Sentinel. "We're creating a criminal justice system that is increasingly relying on this technology."
(IsraelNationalNews.com)
DNA is typically collected from things as simple as a strand of hair, a discarded drinking cup or cigarette butt or even a used toothbrush. The team used two methods to fabricate the DNA samples, one involving a real DNA sample, albeit small, which was then enlarged into a greater quantity by using whole genome amplification. This could then be planted in either blood or saliva.

 

[aneurin]

I thought the explanation would be injuries from impact with the car or kerb, possibly both.

According to reports, it has been determined that Melanie Hall was "battered with a blunt instrument" and "suffered a fractured skull, cheek and jaw". That is not consistent with a road traffic accident. A forensic pathologist can distinguish between head injuries suffered as a result of (a) repeated blows to the head from an iron pipe (or whatever) and (b) the impact of a moving motor vehicle. Since the post-mortem concluded that option (a) was the explanation, we can exclude option (b) as a possibility.

 

[Deckard]

Can anyone confirm that GC was found face down with a ligature abrasion? I seem to remember this detail but I could be wrong.

 

[aneurin]

Israeli Scientists Prove DNA Evidence Can Be Faked

So, you thought that DNA evidence was foolproof? Think again. Headline from the link I have pasted below.

I wonder if it is at all possible the DNA found on JY was planted by someone intending to frame VT for her murder. Maybe I have been watching too many movies but it occurred to me it is a possibility. I decided to do a little research and I came across this website which I think is very interesting. What do you think?

http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/132965

"DNA is a lot easier to plant at a crime scene than fingerprints," Tania Simoncelli, ACLU science adviser told the San Francisco Sentinel. "We're creating a criminal justice system that is increasingly relying on this technology." (IsraelNationalNews.com)

DNA is typically collected from things as simple as a strand of hair, a discarded drinking cup or cigarette butt or even a used toothbrush. The team used two methods to fabricate the DNA samples, one involving a real DNA sample, albeit small, which was then enlarged into a greater quantity by using whole genome amplification. This could then be planted in either blood or saliva.

Well, according to the report from Arutz Sheva;

"You can just engineer a crime scene," Frumkin contends. "Any biology undergraduate could perform this."

Should just be a case of cherchez le biology undergraduate then. Got any on the suspect list?

Thankfully Dan Frumkin has also created a test that can "differentiate between a true DNA sample and a fake" and also founded a company to market the product.

 

[kINGFISHER]

RE: Posted by kINGFISHER



http://www.thisisbristol.co.uk/news/...l/article.html

Interesting ?

Kingfisher... more than interesting, the Perp was 5'9" to 5'10"..? I wonder if they ever had anyone on their suspect's list that matched this description? Again with A&E you have to really delve to find this information.

Presumably the public have no right to further information other than what the police believe we need to know . We can't ask for freedom of information in these cases I presume but maybe the victims' relatives could, I don't know. So how can the public know the Police are doing their jobs properly. I think you have already suggested this. We know there is a lot of corruption in the police force which probably restrains the decent ones. Maybe they need to bring in other Chief officers to deal with this case but even that does not always guarantee the outcome. Bet there is a real struggle behind the scenes though.

 

[aneurin]

Can anyone confirm that GC was found face down with a ligature abrasion? I seem to remember this detail but I could be wrong.

I can't find any confirmation, but A&SC did recently send the string of black beads GC was wearing when she was strangled for DNA testing. There would be no point in doing that unless they believed the beads had been handled by the killer, which sort of implies that the beads were used to strangle her.

 

[Cherwell]

Can anyone confirm that GC was found face down with a ligature abrasion? I seem to remember this detail but I could be wrong.

Don't know, but according to this there was very little, and nothing to suggest that the beads played any part.

The lack of serious injury to the dead girl surprised both the Ham Green hospital pathologist Derek Johnson and Mr Lewis.

He said, 'The lack of a struggle, lack of injury, lack of anything to go on hampered our inquiries. One almost felt that it was a mistake thinking this was a murder case.'

The pathologist could only find a small abrasion on the throat. It seemed like an indecent assault from behind with a hand to the throat.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/brizzlebornandbred/5324888496

 

[Deckard]

I can't find any confirmation, but A&SC did recently send the string of black beads GC was wearing when she was strangled for DNA testing. There would be no point in doing that unless they believed the beads had been handled by the killer, which sort of implies that the beads were used to strangle her.

So quite possibly a disorganised perp who used what was to hand rather than bringing a murder weapon to the scene. The police also found a leg of a pair of spectacles close to the body which may have come from the killer. Despite enquiries at many local opticians the owner was never found. Could the perp have bought his prescription outside of the bristol area?
In both cases there is no sign of a struggle from the victim. No injuries present apart from neck abrasions, apparently very slight in the case of JY as it wasn't initially reported.

 

[Deckard]

Forensically would a slow application of pressure to the neck account for the lack of heavy abrasion? This would seem at odds with the fact of no apparent fight back by either victim?

 

[MMENJBRIT]

Re: Prickle
Israeli Scientists Prove DNA Evidence Can Be Faked

So, you thought that DNA evidence was foolproof? Think again. Headline from the link I have pasted below.

I wonder if it is at all possible the DNA found on JY was planted by someone intending to frame VT for her murder. Maybe I have been watching too many movies but it occurred to me it is a possibility. I decided to do a little research and I came across this website which I think is very interesting. What do you think?

I have thought all along that there could be some 'trickery' going on with a possibility of DNA 'planted' to point suspicion. If you think that one of the residents of Cannynge rd had keys to every room in the building it is a no brainer.

In response to Kingfisher's suggestion, I agree that a higher authority needs to be involved in this case.

 

[Cherwell]

If you think that one of the residents of Cannynge rd had keys to every room in the building it is a no brainer.

Really? Who is that and how do you know this?