GUILTY UK - Joanna Yeates, 25, Clifton, Bristol, 17 Dec 2010 #4

[teabreid]

From the Telegraph, 28/12

It is not know whether her body had been lying in the spot where she was found or if it had been dumped more recently. Even though the area is remote locals say her body would have been noticed on Christmas Eve if it had been there.

I'm sure I've seen similar statements from the dogwalkers who found the body.

 

[MrZhivago]

I know that, assuming the quarry is operating over the weekend, we have the problem of drivers spotting the body.
But I still don't see why we can't believe that the body *was* heaved over the fence, and perhaps therefore concealed by that boulder.
Given the vagueness of everything, I don't think we can say either way.
Maybe it's because I'm fairly fit and strong, but I have difficulty seeing that it's all that hard to get a 70 kilo (or however heavy) weight over a fence like that.

The crane: I find it hard [as well as disturbing, but that's by the by] to imagine it being used to kind of prise the body from the ground. I'm sure there are gentler means used, and it strikes me as being like using a power drill for some very delicate archaeological process. I'm more minded to think that it's for lifting the body from the other side of the fence. But, yes, it may be that they wanted to take turf with it or whatever.

I don't think we can say, really.
But I'm not taken by the idea that's been thrown up here and there that the killer *wanted* the body to be found swiftly. He may not have cared either way, perhaps, but I can't go with the idea proposed by some that its discovery was some kind of "Christmas gift".

 

[Phillb]

From the Telegraph, 28/12

It is not know whether her body had been lying in the spot where she was found or if it had been dumped more recently. Even though the area is remote locals say her body would have been noticed on Christmas Eve if it had been there.

I'm sure I've seen similar statements from the dogwalkers who found the body.

Yes i too tend to think the Christmas morning body move to Longwood Lane took place. I can't see it not being found in that spot for 8 days, snow cover or not.

 

[MrZhivago]

Yes i too tend to think the Christmas morning body move to Longwood Lane took place. I can't see it not being found in that spot for 8 days, snow cover or not.

If so [and I'm not yet convinced but can perhaps be won over], this must *definitely* rule out Greg, wouldn't everyone agree? He would be under *far* too close scrutiny to pull this off. Probably the landlord also.

 

[Destroyer]

Excellent Sleuthing guys while ive been away, & ive got to say welldone especially to PhillB for the great work he's put in today - absolutely fantastic, cant really say it any better !!

Anyways back on the topic - about the boulder/rock outside the entrance to the quarry, i am now of the impression that Jo's body may well of been dumped directly behind this rock. Therefore looking at the pictures her body must of been lifted over the wire fence & hidden behind the rock. Whether the body had been there for 8 days we dont know, but the police certainly do. The reason the Fire Service crane was used imo was purely to remove the rock to allow the forensic team more room around the body.

Also just a thought, how do we know the boulder/rock was in place when Jo's body was found ?? Ive seen this at many building sites or works grounds that when they are closed for the weekend the large boulder/rocks are moved & place in front of the entry gates to prevent people attempting entering the premises & stealing the equipment inside ? If this were to be the case it maybe what exposed the body ?? This may well be nothing, but just a thought - i assume they are placed on the entrance as many people often do a u-turn outside the gates & have wrecked the fencing on many occasions.

 

[wfgodot]

Excellent Sleuthing guys while ive been away, & ive got to say welldone especially to PhillB for the great work he's put in today - absolutely fantastic, cant really say it any better !!

Double that statement, great job!

 

[Phillb]

Destroyer;5993999

Also just a thought, how do we know the boulder/rock was in place when Jo's body was found ?? Ive seen this at many building sites or works grounds that when they are closed for the weekend the large boulder/rocks are moved & place in front of the entry gates to prevent people attempting entering the premises & stealing the equipment inside ? If this were to be the case it maybe what exposed the body ??

Thanks for the thanks Destroyer

We know the boulder was there when Jo's body was left. The images on Google street view show it in situ. Someone says those images have a 2009 date stamp, but i do know they are at least a year old for certain

 

[mikeymot]

In connection with removing JY's body, the police called on the services of the fire brigade with a small crane. That much is fact. As for the claim that this was necessary, because the body was frozen to the ground or to the nearby lump of masonry, I suggest that it is mere conjecture. The police may have wanted to take the body together with the ground immediately beneath it as an overkill level of forensic precaution. We don't know that the measure was necessary.
It seems to me clearly established that the body was left right next to the quarry gates by a killer who had no intention or expectation of delaying its discovery by more than a few hours. Either he left the body straight after the crime, very probably on the Friday night (17th), and had incredible luck, or else he left it much nearer to the time of its discovery, having kept it meanwhile in some provisional place. The most likely solution to me seems to me to be the latter, with the body being deposited at the Longwood Drive site during the night of Christmas.
The murderer was not Greg Reardon, for reasons already set out here, and if I am right about when the body was dumped, also because he would not have been in any position to do the dumping undetected.

Would like nothing more than to totally exclude G/R from my list of possible suspects but, sadly, not totally convinced.....yet.

 

[Destroyer]

Thanks for the thanks Destroyer

We know the boulder was there when Jo's body was left. The images on Google street view show it in situ. Someone says those images have a 2009 date stamp, but i do know they are at least a year old for certain

Yes we know they are there now & when the pictures were taken, but were they on the verge or infront the gates for security purposes as the site was to be unmanned over the holiday season ??

If the boulder/rock had been relocated to block the gates, then that would explain why Jo's body suddenly got exposed ?? Also i noticed looking at the pics you posted earlier, the pedestrian track that runs through the woods is on the opposite side of the road, hence like i said before there is no pedestrian pathway on Longwood Lane - i am still amazed that a driver was not the first to spot her body while entering/exiting the quarry ??

 

[mikeymot]

I know that, assuming the quarry is operating over the weekend, we have the problem of drivers spotting the body.
But I still don't see why we can't believe that the body *was* heaved over the fence, and perhaps therefore concealed by that boulder.
Given the vagueness of everything, I don't think we can say either way.
Maybe it's because I'm fairly fit and strong, but I have difficulty seeing that it's all that hard to get a 70 kilo (or however heavy) weight over a fence like that.

The crane: I find it hard [as well as disturbing, but that's by the by] to imagine it being used to kind of prise the body from the ground. I'm sure there are gentler means used, and it strikes me as being like using a power drill for some very delicate archaeological process. I'm more minded to think that it's for lifting the body from the other side of the fence. But, yes, it may be that they wanted to take turf with it or whatever.

I don't think we can say, really.
But I'm not taken by the idea that's been thrown up here and there that the killer *wanted* the body to be found swiftly. He may not have cared either way, perhaps, but I can't go with the idea proposed by some that its discovery was some kind of "Christmas gift".

Don't think anyone mentioned a Christmas 'Gift'! and if that was implied then I am sure it has been totally misconstrued. IF left somewhere to be found quickly...then it would have been found around 18th (not Christmas Day)...but the body being found may heve helped 'ease' someones' conscience.

As regards lifting a body over a fence....depends on how fit the person(s) were but I remember, quite a few years ago, using a 'firemans lift'...i.e. over shoulder to carry my disabled mother up 8 floors when the lifts in her flats failed so...guess can be done.

 

[Patticake]

This may have more relevance now ...

I'm reporting from thread # 1 about the deposition of Joanne's body by a detective pointing out that placement of the body noted panic and being unplanned:

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/top-st...icked-after-unplanned-murder-115875-22818569/

THE country lane where Jo Yeates was found is without doubt one of the most unusual body deposition sites I’ve ever visited. It will have given police several clues about the circumstances of her death.

It strongly suggests her murder was not planned and the killer panicked afterwards because virtually no thought has gone into concealing the body.

Jo was left on the verge of Longwood Lane – one of the first roads without houses a driver leaving Bristol in this direction will reach. It is 50 yards south of an entrance to a quarry, which would have been a more sensible and less noticeable place to pull over.

This suggests Jo was dumped in the middle of the night when the road was deserted, but the darkness meant the killer missed several better spots nearby to conceal her body properly.
Barely 50 yards from where dog walkers found her there is a gap in the wall leading into woods.

Opposite the floral tributes there is a gap between a wall and a fence at the quarry face. If you are strong enough to get a body into a car it will not take much more effort to get it in the gap. If Jo had been left there it is quite possible she would not have been found for years.



.

 

[Destroyer]

As regards lifting a body over a fence....depends on how fit the person(s) were but I remember, quite a few years ago, using a 'firemans lift'...i.e. over shoulder to carry my disabled mother up 8 floors when the lifts in her flats failed so...guess can be done.

Well put it like this, whoever dumped her body at the entrance to the quarry still had to lift her body over the wired fence by the looks of things anyway ?? But theres no-way a single person could of lifted her level with the boulder/rock & be able to drop her flush behind it & that is the impression i am getting here.

 

[mikeymot]

Well put it like this, whoever dumped her body at the entrance to the quarry still had to lift her body over the wired fence by the looks of things anyway ?? But theres no-way a single person could of lifted her level with the boulder/rock & be able to drop her flush behind it & that is the impression i am getting here.

If they did...they would almost certainly have left trace on the boulder.

 

[Patticake]

This may have more relevance now ...

I'm reporting from thread # 1 about the deposition of Joanne's body by a detective pointing out that placement of the body noted panic and being unplanned:

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/top-st...icked-after-unplanned-murder-115875-22818569/

THE country lane where Jo Yeates was found is without doubt one of the most unusual body deposition sites I’ve ever visited. It will have given police several clues about the circumstances of her death.

It strongly suggests her murder was not planned and the killer panicked afterwards because virtually no thought has gone into concealing the body.

Jo was left on the verge of Longwood Lane – one of the first roads without houses a driver leaving Bristol in this direction will reach. It is 50 yards south of an entrance to a quarry, which would have been a more sensible and less noticeable place to pull over.

.

I'm at the office and cannot see the previously posted graphics.

Do the photos show a body deposition site that is 50 yeards south of the quarry as this detective states?


.

 

[mikeymot]

If they did...they would almost certainly have left trace on the boulder.

Also, meant to say that ... if she were placed there on the 17th her body would still be 'pliable' i.e. no r/m and therefore..easier to lift. If she had been 'stored' somewhere..as some think..then it would be much more difficult to raise her body up and over the fence (unless by 2 people).

 

[teabreid]

This may have more relevance now ...

I'm reporting from thread # 1 about the deposition of Joanne's body by a detective pointing out that placement of the body noted panic and being unplanned:

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/top-st...icked-after-unplanned-murder-115875-22818569/

THE country lane where Jo Yeates was found is without doubt one of the most unusual body deposition sites I’ve ever visited. It will have given police several clues about the circumstances of her death.

It strongly suggests her murder was not planned and the killer panicked afterwards because virtually no thought has gone into concealing the body.

Jo was left on the verge of Longwood Lane – one of the first roads without houses a driver leaving Bristol in this direction will reach. It is 50 yards south of an entrance to a quarry, which would have been a more sensible and less noticeable place to pull over.

This suggests Jo was dumped in the middle of the night when the road was deserted, but the darkness meant the killer missed several better spots nearby to conceal her body properly.
Barely 50 yards from where dog walkers found her there is a gap in the wall leading into woods.

Opposite the floral tributes there is a gap between a wall and a fence at the quarry face. If you are strong enough to get a body into a car it will not take much more effort to get it in the gap. If Jo had been left there it is quite possible she would not have been found for years.



.

It seems clear that the detective was under the impression that the dumping spot was where the floral tributes were left, 50 yards south of the quarry entrance, which I think we have agreed is the correct dumping spot. His conclusions would have been more persuasive if he had looked at the right place.

 

[Malaconotus]

I'm at the office and cannot see the previously posted graphics.

Do the photos show a body deposition site that is 50 yeards south of the quarry as this detective states?


.

No. I think PhillB has shown that the detective is mistaken, and has assumed the deposition site to be where the family laid flowers, at the end of the green fence fifty yards south of the entrance, but I recall that the BBC reporter's video commentary said that the family were then taken "a few yards up the road to where the body was found"

I for one am convinced PhillB is right, but from everything I have read I take the precise deposition site to be on the road side of the fence, immediately adjacent to the 'boulder'. From the before and after comparison shots provided by Google Earth and the AP, I do not think the boulder has been moved at any stage.

 

[Phillb]

It seems clear that the detective was under the impression that the dumping spot was where the floral tributes were left, 50 yards south of the quarry entrance, which I think we have agreed is the correct dumping spot. His conclusions would have been more persuasive if he had looked at the right place.

Yes agreed. The ex detective was as privvy to as much inside info as we are.
Take his musings with a pinch of salt I would say.

 

[Destroyer]

It seems clear that the detective was under the impression that the dumping spot was where the floral tributes were left, 50 yards south of the quarry entrance, which I think we have agreed is the correct dumping spot. His conclusions would have been more persuasive if he had looked at the right place.

I think we are all agreed that Jo's body was dumped by the entrance, as you can see here -

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Found Deceased UK - Joanna Yeates, Clifton, Bristol, 25 December 2010 #4


in an earlier post by Phillb , which nigh on pinpoints the spot.

 

[Destroyer]

Yes agreed. The ex detective was as privvy to as much inside info as we are.
Take his musings with a pinch of salt i would say.

I think we are doing better than the DCI at the moment given the information they have been feeding out.