GUILTY UK - Joanna Yeates, 25, Clifton, Bristol, 17 Dec 2010 #5

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liz b. said:
And " A source " states that "detectives want to piece together as much detail as possible about whether Jo was killed in her flat "... So, the place of death does not really seem to have been established...

All JMO
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This is what I said yesterday there was no hard fact she was killed in the flat as yet, just presumption she was. I'm also surprised they've only just started to look at alternative places to hide the body. I posted those old Victorian plans of the flat on here the other day and mentioned those out buildings e.t.c.
 
Phillb said:
This is what I said yesterday there was no hard fact she was killed in the flat as yet, just presumption she was. I'm also suprised they've only just started to look at alternative places to hide the body. I posted those old Victorian plans of the flat on here the other day and mentioned those out buildings e.t.c.
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Could you please repost the plans of the flat? I am very interested in this, and searched the net a bit but had no luck. I did see the old plans ... site plans ... is that what you're referring to ... or did you come across flat plans?
 
I've always felt convinced Jo was killed on the Friday night, most probably around the 9-10 p.m time. I'm also pretty certain her body was dumped in Longwood Lane in the early hours of Christmas morning. Given the location, snow cover or not, I feel sure she would have been discovered before. Her body was somewhere else for 8 days possibly. Until her body was found it was still a missing persions enquiry, the Police would not be doing extensive searching around the property. The suspicious 4X4 on Saturday morning the 18th may just well be a Red Herring.

If the Sun story is correct-about the Police giving credence to the theory that her body may have been stashed around the flat is true. Then naming no names, but this puts previously untoucheable people back into the frame.

Interesting developments indeed!
 
Phillb said:
Hi Otto.
The best detail plans I came across are here

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Found Deceased UK - Joanna Yeates, Clifton, Bristol, 17 December 2010 - #3


These are the plans from 1884 and how the original old house layout, and gardens would have been. I'm not sure if Bristol council will hold original detailed ground floor, and room diagrammes of that property or not.
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If there are any plans of the house, at any stage ... old or after renovations ... I would be very interested. I need to visualize to get the complete picture ... and the complete pictures clarifies what happened. With the floor plans, it would be easier to understand how she could have been overcome by someone in her flat. Chances are it was her boyfriend, or that after inviting her brother's friend for a drink, she simply (without forethought) opened the door to someone that had targeted her. Still, it would be really helpful to see the floor plans to understand what happened. I would build a 3D model of the flat if we had the plans ... or some photos ... or anything to work with.
 
otto said:
If there are any plans of the house, at any stage ... old or after renovations ... I would be very interested. I need to visualize to get the complete picture ... and the complete pictures clarifies what happened. With the floor plans, it would be easier to understand how she could have been overcome by someone in her flat. Chances are it was her boyfriend, or that after inviting her brother's friend for a drink, she simply (without forethought) opened the door to someone that had targeted her. Still, it would be really helpful to see the floor plans to understand what happened. I would build a 3D model of the flat if we had the plans ... or some photos ... or anything to work with.
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I could have a go at marking up a plan of the flat, going on the entrane door position, the windows, and the small windows that are obiously the W.C/bathroom. It would all be deduction, not fact.
I can't claim it to be exact, because I just don't know. But it might help? Is it any use?
 
Phillb said:
I've always felt convinced Jo was killed on the Friday night, most probably around the 9-10 p.m time. I'm also pretty certain her body was dumped in Longwood Lane in the early hours of Christmas morning. Given the location, snow cover or not, I feel sure she would have been discovered before. Her body was somewhere else for 8 days possibly. Until her body was found it was still a missing persions enquiry, the Police would not be doing extensive searching around the property. The suspicious 4X4 on Saturday morning the 18th may just well be a Red Herring.

If the Sun story is correct-about the Police giving credence to the theory that her body may have been stashed around the flat is true. Then naming no names, but this puts previously untoucheable people back into the frame.

Interesting developments indeed!
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I think she was murdered around 9 PM, possibly during an attack that was intended to be a rape ... but which she fought off ... and was murdered. I keep trying to figure out how she lost one sock ... but it seems possible that she was struggling, getting away, he took a sock, and when he was able restrain her, he strangled her. I also think that she was put on the lane the night of Dec 17 because that is the night it began snowing. It is also possible that the person strangled her and then wonderd what to do, didn't want to risk the possibility that he was seen arriving, and so he wanted the scene to appear as though he left, she was fine, and whatever happened ... happened somewhere else.

The landlord is certainly another possibility if she was attacked in her apartment and her body was hidden in the back shed for a couple of days. If that is what happened, then it is someone that wanted to move the body as far away from home as possible, someone with a motive to obscure the murder scene, or stage an attack away from the home.

I'd sure like to know more about the boyfriend's alibi.
 
Phillb said:
I could have a go at marking up a plan of the flat, going on the entrane door position, the windows, and the small windows that are obiously the W.C/bathroom. It would all be deduction, not fact.
I can't claim it to be exact, because I just don't know. But it might help? Is it any use?
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If you could ... that would be a great start. The nice thing about the electronic file is that changes are easily made. Do a pencil sketch or whatever is easiest ... mark some general dimensions ... and I'll give it a shot ... lay down the walls.
 
Well I`ve read through the threads, good discussion though solving this case is impossible with so little information. From what I`ve read, she did at least get home and open the cider. It seems that the perpetrator could have been someone she let inside and perhaps shared the pizza with (therefore it was taken) or someone was already inside the flat. They could have used a key or snug inside while she popped out. If someone was already hiding inside the flat, then perhaps they planned to sneak out while she went out, but they met at the stairs or something. She also could have been abducted while she went outside, in which case I believe she took out the trash/pizza wrappings.

I have been wondering about a few things.

For short trips outside, like taking the trash or checking the mail, did she have some slippers or other shoes that are easily put on- and easily fall off? Has it been checked whether any shoes are missing?

Did she smoke? If not regularly, then did she occasionally ask for a cigarette like when drinking? If she popped outside, perhaps it was to smoke a cigarette or perhaps she asked someone for a cigarette "ex tempore". Just guessing.

What kind of lock did the door have? Was it possible to shut the door so that it closed but didn`t lock? When the bf returned, he might have missed that the door was unlocked when he just put in the key and perhaps pushed the door a little.

Where there lights on in the flat when he returned, or even TV?

About moving the body (if she was killed inside the flat), for a stranger the motive might be to just buy time and perhaps contaminate evidence on the body somehow.

As for the motive to kill her I have no clue!
 
Phillb said:
I've always felt convinced Jo was killed on the Friday night, most probably around the 9-10 p.m time. I'm also pretty certain her body was dumped in Longwood Lane in the early hours of Christmas morning. Given the location, snow cover or not, I feel sure she would have been discovered before. Her body was somewhere else for 8 days possibly. Until her body was found it was still a missing persions enquiry, the Police would not be doing extensive searching around the property. The suspicious 4X4 on Saturday morning the 18th may just well be a Red Herring.

If the Sun story is correct-about the Police giving credence to the theory that her body may have been stashed around the flat is true. Then naming no names, but this puts previously untoucheable people back into the frame.

Interesting developments indeed!
Click to expand...

I agree 100%. I never accepted that the body could have lain undiscovered where it was found for a week. If it was found on Christmas morning, the quietest morning of the year, why would it not be found on any of the previous days? I won't bang on again about the regularity of dog walkers' habits.

There have been a few theories which require Jo not to have arrived home that night, with the murderer bringing her stuff to the flat. The police have consistently maintained that she arrived home. The key to this is the half drunk glass of cider. The police will know who's dna is on that glass. If it's Jo's, then they know she got home.

What worries me greatly about the overnight press coverage is that, far from being close to a breakthrough, the police, with all the evidence and resources they have access to, seem to be no further forward than a bunch of amateur online sleuths (no disrespect, people, some great work has been done here).

I really hope we're not going to be told that those sheds weren't subjected to thorough forensic analysis weeks ago. If they weren't, somebody has made a huge mistake.

So I'm still hanging on to my original theory- murdered by bf Friday night,jealous rage, body dumped Christmas Eve: though I wavered a bit yesterday!
 
Perhaps JY wasn't found in Friday's clothes hence LE are convinced she went back to the flat (and probably killed there)?
 
Firefly75 said:
Body language is a strange thing - a lot easier to read with hindsight, after something has been solved. I just think of Shannon Matthews' mother pleading into the camera and looking absolutely convincing in those first days. Even if experts had picked on something odd in her behaviour (what was it again - a little shrug of the shoulder?), that wouldn't have been enough to build a case against her. If they'd brought her in a suspect at that point, every man Jack would have been up in flames about the police adding to her suffering.
There seems to be no really reliable way to say that someone's body language is off when they are put into an extremely distressing situation like these people are going through. MOO.
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I shouldn't think there are many people nowadays who aren't familiar with body language. It doesn't take an expert to see through any facade unless of course people in question are excellent actors.
If it was a kidnap plan arising from something to do with DY then it would explain the impression I got of them at the first press conference. I felt they were putting on a united front. That perhaps they weren't as 'close' a couple as they were making out to be.
I can't help thinking though, if there was anything dodgy about DY the tabloids would have dug that out by now. I've no doubt they've already searched the archives, his family history etc.
 
teabreid said:
What worries me greatly about the overnight press coverage is that, far from being close to a breakthrough, the police, with all the evidence and resources they have access to, seem to be no further forward than a bunch of amateur online sleuths (no disrespect, people, some great work has been done here).

I really hope we're not going to be told that those sheds weren't subjected to thorough forensic analysis weeks ago. If they weren't, somebody has made a huge mistake.
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To be honest with you teabreid, it seems the only good leads their following has come from these very same amateur sleuth pages here. Journos, hacks, and most likely the Police do scour these online debates and twitter feeds for news and gossip. It's all good if it helps catch their man! :)
 
Shortly after the body was discovered, it was suspected for a time (or at least was reported in the media) that she may have died of hypothermia

Further investigation revealed 'constriction' of the neck as cause of death

JY's parents were reported as saying she looked as if she were asleep, I think

Taken in combination, this implies there were few if any physical signs of struggle

If she'd been manually strangled, surely there would have been bruising ?


Whether or not the body had been at the Longwood Lane location from the outset or moved from one location to the next, could surely be determined via blood-pooling ?
 
laserdisc10 said:
Further investigation revealed 'constriction' of the neck as cause of death
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These words caught my attention in the press. Normally a victim is described as having been strangled. I'm beginning to wonder now if it was indeed a sex game that had gone terribly wrong.
 
The Glenis Carruthers murder is worth reconsidering with regard to the Joanna Yeates case.
You can see major crime investigation officer Carrie Garret outline the case here:

http://www.avonandsomerset.police.uk/newsroom/special_appeals/glenis-carruthers/

In how many unsolved cases does a witness see the perpetrator finishing the crime and walk away?

Do the police already have their man in Joanna's case?
Are they having trouble building a case that can withstand a good criminal defence team in a trial?

My newfound interest in the L/L was kindled as a result of the excellent work by everyone on the first WS thread on the Joanna Yeates murder.
The long brown hair and reported age of the Carruther's killer caught my attention.
I have no idea what the man on police bail looked like in the 1970's though.
 
5353657789_69e3278874_z.jpg


Here's my rather amateurish attempt at detailing the possible flat layout.

I've gone on how many windows there are, the size of the windows, and the service pipes and plumbing to place the W.C/shower and kitchens. I would think there was a small hallway in the middle section. The small window at the side of the entrance door being the only window in the hall. I've marked the side entrance door opening out just for clarity.

Don't anyone take this layout as factual, because I just don't know. It's all deduction.
I could be (and probably am) way off the mark lol ;)

So I've uploaded the plan below if anyone else wants to have a go.

5353657787_b368868d60_z.jpg
 
Gloriana wrote:

These words caught my attention in the press. Normally a victim is described as having been strangled. I'm beginning to wonder now if it was indeed a sex game that had gone terribly wrong.
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It's very possible that it was a situation which went wrong. A discussion which turned into an argument and which JY attempted to leave. Pulled back, held down, possibly, either in a car or outside the flat. If not in a car, then maybe they ended up on the ground. Hand over mouth to prevent her from drawing attention. Arm across her neck, maybe the person didn't even realise. JY went silent. Other person realised they'd killed her. Desperate to 'un-do' the situation, they drove around looking for someplace to leave the body

I think the killing may well have been unintentional

Could have been a colleague, admirer, old flame, even a woman. And there might have been a second party who was caught up in the tragedy

Just another theory amongst so many

It's only quite recently that I read that some people can die from a very faint pressure on their throat/neck. They don't know that, nor do those close to them. I'll try to find something about it if I can. It surprised me when I learned of it
 
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