GUILTY UK - Joanna Yeates, 25, Clifton, Bristol, 17 Dec 2010 #5

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liz b. said:
But the BF would not have needed to remove the pizza because he touched it or the wrapper.He could have said that he touched it when he came home on Sunday night ... No way to disprove that IMO

All JMO
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he couldn't be 100% sure that her disappearance wouldn't be discovered before he returned on Sunday tho..... iyswim

All jmo
 
liz b. said:
If he wanted to rape her,why would he kill her before he could do it ? And also, he could have raped her after he had killed her... I think that this was maybe a kidnapping that went wrong.Nothing to do with a sexual motive. IMO

All JMO
Click to expand...
Could have been a guy who did not know his own strength and whilst trying to restrain her...used too much pressure and she died.
 
From the Daily Star:
JO YEATES MURDERED AT HOME SAY COPS

Joanna Yeates’s killer took “a massive gamble” in moving her body after she was murdered, police said last night.

Detectives are convinced the 25-year-old was killed in her flat but cannot fathom why the strangler went to the trouble of dumping her body three miles away.
---
Last night a senior detective told the Daily Star: “This is a crucial factor in the investigation.

“Assuming the culprit was undetected carrying out the killing, why on earth did he or she just not leave the flat as quickly and quietly as possible?

“There would only have been a relatively slim chance someone had seen them either entering or leaving the property and they would not have attracted any undue suspicion.”
---
Click to expand...

more at link above
 
Here's the Mirror's new one:

Jo Yeates murder: 4 weeks on, 80 cops, £1 million spent...what is really going on in Jo manhunt?

Lots there, most of it from former Scotland Yard detective chief inspector Peter Kirkham, at link above.

ETA
snippets from the article:

Sometimes sod’s law says you just don’t know enough to prioritise it - but you have to make sure you haven’t got the golden nugget sitting there and no-one has realised.

This can happen on big cases.
Click to expand...

We know of at least one suspect.
---
The investigation can get tunnel vision and change from a search for the truth - which it should be - into an exercise in gathering evidence to convict a particular person.

Where you have one suspect this is a danger. You can miss valid alternatives.
Click to expand...

It may be an arrest is imminent and there is nothing to be gained by a review because they are almost there.

But if the investigation is whistling in the dark and going nowhere - at some stage it’s worth having a review. They will be thinking about it now.
Click to expand...

I’ve not seen anything about the way this case has progressed that causes me particular concern.

If after three months they still have no-one then we might have to say: ‘hang on, we may not solve this’.
Click to expand...
 
Firefly75 said:
I notice some of you have noticed we sometimes have quite a few guests reading. I often read without signing in and sign in just when I want to post.

We do, however, seem to have other people reading who post on different forums. I tried to get to our thread the quick way, so I typed "Websleuths Joanna Yeates" into the search engine. And this is what I got, among other things: a thread from a different forum where someone said we were way out of line. Of course I had a look.

http://www.urban75.net/vbulletin/threads/340337-Jo-Yeates-body-found-in-Failand-Bristol/page20

Just in case anyone was wondering about guests.
Click to expand...

I am the person who posted on the urban75 community thread about the Jo Yeates case, and gave my thoughts on this set of threads about the same case.

Although I am a bit older than Jo, this case stuck in my mind because I went to my work's Christmas do that Friday, and waved my workmates goodbye as I walked to a nearby station to get home, roughly around the same time as Jo went to the pub with her workmates.

I came across the websleuths site via a web search as I was trying to work out the facts of the case too, and I posted what I did because I was genuinely horrified at some of the things being posted on this thread set. It was not my intention to cause offence - and please accept my apologies if I have offended or upset anyone in any way. It is clear that there is a genuine wish to assist in a non-professional manner in this case.

To my mind, this is a difficult and frustrating case due to the lack of progress (perceived or otherwise) of the police and the 'drip feeding' of 'information' - I do not think much of this information is reliable or factual - from the media at large. Consequently, a vacuum has been created and speculation has immediately started to fill that gap.

My concerns lie with the nature of some of what has been posted. Please note this is just my opinion. In particular, I feel that there has been a lot of things said about certain people close to the case - such as GR and JS - that is quite hurtful. For example, right from early on in the investigation, the the police stated that GR was not a suspect:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-bristol-12084756
but this has been consistently ignored as a fact by the majority of people. So we have a young man whose girlfriend has been murdered, probably feeling as if his world has ended, and posts on a message board are saying some really quite hurtful things about him (jealousy, rage, rocky relationship, he killed her etc). Some of the speculation, also in my mind, has a somewhat almost jovial air about them, and it is as if this poor woman's murder has become a real-life game of cluedo.

There are some excellent posts on this threads, for example the ones about the location of the body. I found them very insightful. However, I think a duty of care is owed to the family and the victim's loved ones, and the investigation, and theories must be mindful of the facts, however few there are. My impressions of this site - the Jonbenet Ramsay work for example - were that a lot of careful and thoughtful investigation does take place, especially on cold cases. It is the open and virtually unfettered speculations on live threads that worry me, especially in these litigious times.

As an aside, posters on urban75 are also intelligent and thoughtful, and yes, there is bickering and disagreements, but the web site is moderated well and disruptive posters are banned. Legal cases are often discussed, but once arrests have been made no further discussions are allowed to avoid prejudicing them.

Finally, I'm not sure I'll be able to contribute much to this thread whilst there are so few facts available, but I wanted to join to explain my postings on urban75.
 
In reply to Equation Girl, whilst I appreciate your sentiments regarding family members and friends of Jo, the whole ethos of a sleuthing forum is to identify by elimination the culprit. This may appear to be cold and calculating but surely by the very nature of this web page, posts by the members are writen by caring and intelligent people who are taking part in an excerise which is highly moderated and without prejudice.

In respect to the family members and friends, they, I am sure, would welcome any independant input albeit on the internet if the person who commited this hanius crime is caught and charged and taken to trial.
 
Hi equationgirl.

Welcome from the other side :seeya:

Please feel free to join in here if you have anything relevant.
All added input is good ;)
 
equationgirl said:
I am the person who posted on the urban75 community thread about the Jo Yeates case, and gave my thoughts on this set of threads about the same case.

Although I am a bit older than Jo, this case stuck in my mind because I went to my work's Christmas do that Friday, and waved my workmates goodbye as I walked to a nearby station to get home, roughly around the same time as Jo went to the pub with her workmates.

I came across the websleuths site via a web search as I was trying to work out the facts of the case too, and I posted what I did because I was genuinely horrified at some of the things being posted on this thread set. It was not my intention to cause offence - and please accept my apologies if I have offended or upset anyone in any way. It is clear that there is a genuine wish to assist in a non-professional manner in this case.

To my mind, this is a difficult and frustrating case due to the lack of progress (perceived or otherwise) of the police and the 'drip feeding' of 'information' - I do not think much of this information is reliable or factual - from the media at large. Consequently, a vacuum has been created and speculation has immediately started to fill that gap.

My concerns lie with the nature of some of what has been posted. Please note this is just my opinion. In particular, I feel that there has been a lot of things said about certain people close to the case - such as GR and JS - that is quite hurtful. For example, right from early on in the investigation, the the police stated that GR was not a suspect:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-bristol-12084756
but this has been consistently ignored as a fact by the majority of people. So we have a young man whose girlfriend has been murdered, probably feeling as if his world has ended, and posts on a message board are saying some really quite hurtful things about him (jealousy, rage, rocky relationship, he killed her etc). Some of the speculation, also in my mind, has a somewhat almost jovial air about them, and it is as if this poor woman's murder has become a real-life game of cluedo.

There are some excellent posts on this threads, for example the ones about the location of the body. I found them very insightful. However, I think a duty of care is owed to the family and the victim's loved ones, and the investigation, and theories must be mindful of the facts, however few there are. My impressions of this site - the Jonbenet Ramsay work for example - were that a lot of careful and thoughtful investigation does take place, especially on cold cases. It is the open and virtually unfettered speculations on live threads that worry me, especially in these litigious times.

As an aside, posters on urban75 are also intelligent and thoughtful, and yes, there is bickering and disagreements, but the web site is moderated well and disruptive posters are banned. Legal cases are often discussed, but once arrests have been made no further discussions are allowed to avoid prejudicing them.

Finally, I'm not sure I'll be able to contribute much to this thread whilst there are so few facts available, but I wanted to join to explain my postings on urban75.
Click to expand...
Thank you Equationgirl and welcome to W/S. I am glad you decided to join us and read your comments with interest. I think the aim of W/S is to try and help bring this case to a conclusion....which, hopefully, will bring closure for J/Ys' family and friends. There are few firm facts available and although the L/E have stated that G/R is only a witness...I think we are all aware that this could change, bearing in mind that no evidence seems to be forthcoming against the prime suspect C/J who, although on police bail, will probably be cleared fairly quickly. So...on what we have to go on...G/R has to be considered...along with others who may have been close to J/Y (either emotionally or geographically). If you have been following the threads you will see how some 'theories' have been dropped....some forever...some ressurected as more information becomes available. I don't believe that it is anyones intention, on this site anyway, to vilify someone for the sake of it.....they are merely included on a factual or possible scenario.
I do hope that you will continue to follow the threads and comment appropriately if you feel you have input on that particular thread.
 
I'm not sure I agree with that statement in it's entirety, sweep the cat, as identification of the culprit by elimination is (to my mind) only part of the sleuthing - what about investigation of the facts, the use of forensic evidence to positively identify a culprit?

It is not the emotionless/cold hard sleuthing that bothered me, any decent investigation must be based what can be proven rather than what is known, but also speculation not rooted (at least in part) in fact against any individual (and yes, I include CJ at this time).
 
Phillb said:
Hi equationgirl.

Welcome from the other side :seeya:

Please feel free to join in here if you have anything relevant.
All added input is good ;)
Click to expand...

Same side, just different opinions - and thanks to everyone for the welcome. I intend to continue following the threads (murder mysteries and their solutions have fascinated me since I was a child), but I must to go to bed now as I have to get up at 6am to get to work.
 
Hi Equationgirl :)

With regards to who is and who is not a suspect in this case, which we have been discussing here on this forum with a level of maturity that is refreshing to say the least, I will add this:

Consider the case of Madeleine McCann whose parents said she was 'abducted'.

They were announced to be 'not suspects' by Portuguese Police

Then the local 'weirdo' Robert Murat was made 'arguido' (a person of concern/interest to the case - 'suspected' in other words) and later this status was lifted

Then the parents were officially made 'arguido' and 'arguida' and scarpered quickly from Portugal to the UK (I could go on and on....)


I am not here suspecting the parents of JY by the way. My point being that when the Police announce that someone is NOT a 'Suspect', this does not mean that they do NOT suspect that that person is involved. Anything can happen yet in this case. The LE's methods depend on so much more information than we are party to on this or any other forum.

jmo
 
TulipaNoir said:
Very interesting thanks.

I've seen a lot of speculation online about whether the flat was tidy or untidy when her parents arrived, but have not seen anything about the state of the flat in the press until this article:

"When Joanna’s boyfriend Greg Reardon, 27, returned home from a weekend in Sheffield two days later, she was nowhere to be seen.

Fears for her safety escalated as her purse, keys and mobile phone were left in the tidy flat, where there was apparently no sign of a struggle."
Click to expand...


TulipaNoir - do you have a link please.

If it is proven to be fact that the flat was tidy, then I go back to my Sunday night theory. We were told (for what it's worth) that JY stayed behind to tidy up in readiness for Tuesday's party. If the apartment was found by LE to be tidy, then either

it wasn't messy in the first place (JY might possibly have been using the 'tidying up' thing to get out of going to Sheffield, or for other reasons ?)
or
JY tidied up veeery quickly Friday evening before being murdered Friday evening/early hours Saturday (or being murdered some other time before bf returned)
or
JY tidied up during the weekend and the bf returned Sunday - argued, etc.
or
the perp tidied up

jmo
 
Have been following this case from day 1 and found this forum a week or two later and convinced to join, so first post. Someone said earlier yesterday that it could be something not considered yet, which may only be obvious later. I've given that some thought.

One thing that seems apparent is alot of the modern LE investigative work relies on technology like CCTV, cell/mobile records, DNA and the like. This may be blinding LE to other possibilities - things more traditional investigations may find. For example, we know from JY's text to CAG that she was looking for some company after she had left the pub. It is possible she found that without using a mobile? Did she call on someone in the area? Did she run into someone she knew while walking home? Did she call on CAG? Where did he live? Who in her network of acquaintances lived between the RAM and her flat on Canyage Road? All these people need to be checked out. At her work alone she would have come into contact on a daily or weekly basis over 25-30 colleagues, in addition to clients and contractors. The rowing club may have 25-50 as well. It's not enough to just check out her facebook friends as has been reported. They need to think beyond the technology of mobiles and the like and look at proximity. They need to do a map and show the location of all these acquiantences.

If she did call on anyone on the way home, its clearly possible her end could have been met at anytime after her last sighting on her way home, and not at her flat. The deed could have been done Friday night and the perp could go to her flat on Canyge to return her belongings (i.e. keys, mobile, shoes, coat, etc.). Given the party that was going on next door, this would be very easy, especially since they would have been aware GR was away.They could have even returned the belongings on Saturday night. This theory solves the lack of forced entry, body would not need to be moved from Canyage Road flat (though it would from the perps flat), and would fit with the 9pm time frame when her communication stopped.

In that scenario, as far as motive, it could have been a case of the companion misunderstanding intentions and going into a rage, as has been speculated. An alternate theory, and I hope this isn't out of line but all possibilities need to be explored, is that she was intimate with her companion willingly using protected sex, and mild breath play - it went too far and the death could have been a mistake. The companion would have been shocked at what occured and ashamed. Maybe he knows GR and he would likely know others in their common social circle. His very future is now on the line from a mistake, but JY is not coming back. He makes the fateful decision at that time not to call the ambulance but to cover it up, subconciously telling himself it is OK to do that since her death was a mistake. This theory may also solve the lack of evidence of sexual assault (i.e. being intimate in a protected way with a companion may not show any different in autopsy than normal sexual relations with GR assuming they used protection), and lack of evidence of a struggle. Also, it could also explain the dumping of the body where it was likely to be found quickly.

It's very possible the culprit is someone that has not yet been in the frame.
 
Phillb said:
What proof do they have of that? I haven't heard any.
I've heard them say 'we assume she got back to the flat''
I haven't heard the police state that as hard fact.

Did anyone see her enter her flat?
Click to expand...

I think they said very early on that she had got back to the flat, when it was reasonable to all that she would have got home on the basis of her belongings being there. But as time has gone on and no progress is being made, it is becoming apparent this may be incorrect. This may be LE blind spot right now. Nevertheless I have not heard police repeat this after the first few days.
 
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