Yes, Teabreid, the source of a part of the contents of that article is the police unless it is a complete lie, but the part that is from the police talks about the likelihood that some partner, relative or friend knows something material and is encouraged to come forward. That could apply no matter who the culprit, couldn't it ? I'm not questioning that the police use the press to convey occcasional drops of information and to appeal for information from the public. But I am very much questioning whether they use the press to drop hints about who the culprit is.
GUILTY UK - Joanna Yeates, 25, Clifton, Bristol, 17 Dec 2010 #5
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Yes, Teabreid, the source of a part of the contents of that article is the police unless it is a complete lie, but the part that is from the police talks about the likelihood that some partner, relative or friend knows something material and is encouraged to come forward. That could apply no matter who the culprit, couldn't it ? I'm not questioning that the police use the press to convey occcasional drops of information and to appeal for information from the public. But I am very much questioning whether they use the press to drop hints about who the culprit is.
Check out my post from an earlier thread here:
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=5995722#post5995722
Looks like we're thinking along similar lines.
scottybail
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Its very difficult to see today's police statement as anything other than an appeal to GR's family.
its all very sad. But of course it makes sense. Everything fits and points to GR.
its all very sad. But of course it makes sense. Everything fits and points to GR.
Yes, maybe I'm just so convinced by my own theory that I try to make everything fit it, just human nature, I suppose, but I must try to be more objective.
The only sighting of such a vehicle (that we know of) was at the golf club late Friday night.
Not to me, no. We have no idea what they are looking for, it is just media conjecture in that article.
Of course, the body could have been kept somewhere for a shorter period before removal.
You are probably quite right - as I said earlier, the police are saying so little that it's quite feasible they aren't telling the public when something has been ruled out.
mikeymot
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Well, I think there is a clear crossroads of opinion now. Some believe the body to have been placed at the quarry 17th/18th December....others believe it was secreted away....underfloor...in a shed...freezer...and taken to the quarry on Christmas Eve or early Christmas morning. I would be very surprised if the police were not tracing the movement of G/R from Sunday night onwards (and great shame on them if they weren't) Therefore, if G/R is the perp. then I believe he would have had to dispose of the body on the 17th...19th at the very latest....I don't see how he would have had the opportunity...nor the nerve, to go back to the area in which Jo disappeared..remove the body from wherever it was hidden...with police almost clumsy in their abundance...pop over one of the bridges and leave the body in full sight by the quarry entrance. If Jo appeared there on Christmas Eve....then G/R...IMHO...has to be well out of the frame.
To me, no, it suggests that The Sun is guessing at what the police are looking for and,as journalists invariably do, failing to distinguish in their report between observed facts and their own interpretation of those facts.
Anyway the police have never said they thought the body was there for eight days - they said several days.
The value of the plans would also concern possible alternative entrances for assailant or exits for assailant carrying body. Also the possibility of some invisible passage between No 42 and No 44.
Don't forget that Lawrence, the ex-neighbourhood window-cleaner on FB also strongly hinted that his suspicions rested on No 42.
jigzy
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What about an accomplice who had a motive to cover for him?
Well, if you prefer a suspect with a good alibi to one who has none, I suppose so.
It seems to me entirely arbitrary to see it as in any way suggesting one possible killer more than another - except to the extent that it doesn't apply to killers having no partner, relatives or friends at all.
JMO.
Phillb
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Either way Mikey, it is a very puzzling scenario if it is G.R, whatever the dates for the body disposal. If it were straight after the murder on the 17th, that would take him some considerable time to dump the body in Longwood Lane.
I know it's only 3 miles away. But carting a body out to your car at 9.30 isn't something you do nonchalant like bringing in the Tesco shopping bags. Then he would have had to arrive in Sheffield at a decent time (unless half brother really is sticking his neck out with blatant lies)
And on Sunday the 19th. He has 4 hours to dump the body, clean the flat and remove all traces of the crime (forensically aware I believe the Police say) Then phone her friends, and parents to make it look like he was concerned. Then phone the Police. I seriously would be exhausted, never mind composed enough to bluff the missing persons charade to the Police.
We don't know that they aren't also looking at the plans of 42.
mikeymot
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http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/top-st...scene-after-dumping-her-body-115875-22842873/
Don't know what the police would say now, but the locals seem pretty sure....but why ARE L/E searching for something hidden...or where something could have been hidden? Apart from the sock, they have not mentioned anything else used to cause her death...unless there are other injuries that we are unaware of?
Phillb
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Double post
Phillb
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Without taking words literally, and press reports as gods gospel here. The point I'm making is the Police have serious doubts the body had been there for 8 days/several days. They strongly suspect it might have been stashed elsewhere for considerable time. In so doing that casts strong doubt when the body was dumped.
There is no point going round in circles, and over this same old ground anyway.
There does seem to be a groundswell of suspicion amongst websleuths towards GR, perhaps because of media reports of the polices doubts over crucial alibi evidence. But could he really have been that clever, that cunning, that lucky? Id still prefer the perp to be someone as yet unidentified, ideally the 1974 killer: I feel it would somehow compound this whole tragedy if it were GR.
Mind you, Im also reluctant to finger, for example, PS: the smart, middle-aged, professional, well-spoken, clean-shaven, neighbourhood watch co-ordinator who, like his partially-exonerated neighbour CJ, is a pillar of the community, and the epitome of respectability. But could this be because he reminds me of me :giggle: ?
Maybe sympathy or empathy for a player doesnt make for good sleuthing - time to hang up my magnifying glass and deer-stalker?:websleuther:
Mind you, Im also reluctant to finger, for example, PS: the smart, middle-aged, professional, well-spoken, clean-shaven, neighbourhood watch co-ordinator who, like his partially-exonerated neighbour CJ, is a pillar of the community, and the epitome of respectability. But could this be because he reminds me of me :giggle: ?
Maybe sympathy or empathy for a player doesnt make for good sleuthing - time to hang up my magnifying glass and deer-stalker?:websleuther:
Well "the findings of the post mortem" indicated that "Joanna's body has been in the roadside verge off Longwood Lane, Failand, for several days before being discovered on Christmas morning". 'Several days' might mean eight days, or it might mean three days. Who knows? But knowing as I do the precise location of the body dump, I find it quite easy to believe that a snow-covered body could have lain there for days in the cold weather before there was sufficient decomposition to attract the attention of a passing dog. Sadly people are not very good at spotting dead bodies. Take for example the case of the Ipswich Red Light Murders where the body of Anneli Alderton was spotted by a passing motorist dumped in the undergrowth a short distance from the road on the afternoon of the 10th December 2006. It subsequently came to light that another motorist had seen the body on the morning of the 7th December but thought it was simply a discarded mannequin and so didn't report it. The body was there for days before it was actually identified.
The most recent story is based on announcement by someone from the planning department at Bristol City Council that they've handed over some drawings to the police. It is therefore conjectured that this means that the police are looking for a hidey-hole where the body may have been secreted for a time. This might even be true. It could mean that the police believe that the murderer did indeed stash the body away for a time, but it could equally well mean the opposite. Hypothetically speaking, if the police were to arrest and charge X with the murder, it is very likely that X's defence would include pointing the finger at both GR or CJ. At which point it might turn out to be important for the prosecution to demonstrate that either there was nowhere where a body could have been hidden for any length of time or that all such locations had been forensically examined and therefore excluded from consideration.
I think the body could have been in the boot of the car he drove to Sheffield, then disposed of on his way back to the flat on the 20th. He had plenty of time on the 20th, only he knows when he really got to the flat, the important time is when he left Sheffield, we have no information on that.
laserdisc10
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Does anyone remember which thread in this forum contained the photo of a girl connected with the sledders ? When the photo was initially posted, it was speculated it might be JY. This was then dismissed fairly swiftly and there wasn't much discussion of the girl in the photo
Am hoping the poster of the photo might be able to post it again, or possibly give a clue as to where it can be located within this forum, please ?
Also, regardless of where the body was placed, the blood would have pooled in the hours immediately after death. Even if the body were later taken to another location or frozen via weather (or as some have suggested, within a freezer) -- the original blood pooling would still be immediately obvious to pathologists, surely ?
The body was removed from the entrance to the quarry, using lifting equipment. It's been suggested by other posters that the heavy-lifting equipment might have been rendered necessary because the ground was rock-hard (and someone here mentioned on at least two occasions that they'd been unable to move a simple pot-plant from their garden despite using hot water to loosen it) -- and -- the lifting equipment might have been used in order to take as much of the drop site's surrounding flora/fauna (as these are an indicator of decomposition and the length of time this has been underway within that location, etc )
Anyway, just wondering if anyone else remembers the photo of the JY-lookalike and can suggest which thread it was in, please ? From memory, her bone structure seemed similar to JY's and she apparently has a connection with the sledders. Was hoping to take another look at the photo if possible. Just seems an odd coincidence
Am hoping the poster of the photo might be able to post it again, or possibly give a clue as to where it can be located within this forum, please ?
Also, regardless of where the body was placed, the blood would have pooled in the hours immediately after death. Even if the body were later taken to another location or frozen via weather (or as some have suggested, within a freezer) -- the original blood pooling would still be immediately obvious to pathologists, surely ?
The body was removed from the entrance to the quarry, using lifting equipment. It's been suggested by other posters that the heavy-lifting equipment might have been rendered necessary because the ground was rock-hard (and someone here mentioned on at least two occasions that they'd been unable to move a simple pot-plant from their garden despite using hot water to loosen it) -- and -- the lifting equipment might have been used in order to take as much of the drop site's surrounding flora/fauna (as these are an indicator of decomposition and the length of time this has been underway within that location, etc )
Anyway, just wondering if anyone else remembers the photo of the JY-lookalike and can suggest which thread it was in, please ? From memory, her bone structure seemed similar to JY's and she apparently has a connection with the sledders. Was hoping to take another look at the photo if possible. Just seems an odd coincidence
mikeymot
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Okay....what accomplice...again, who would be willing to be seen near the flat, moving a body? Are you suggesting someone who has not yet appeared on our 'radar'...and would not be recognised by the police as already being part of this case?
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