GUILTY UK - Joanna Yeates, 25, Clifton, Bristol, 17 Dec 2010 #5

[gloriana]

I haven't been able to understand why any killer would remove Ms Yeates's body from the flat.

The only reason I can think of is if the killer also lived in the flat or perhaps in close proximity to flat.
The police are sure she made it back to the flat as all her possessions were there, purse, keys, phone etc.

 

[Robin Hood]

Maybe after checking the laundry basket the clothes from friday were not there.Greg would know what she was wearing to work and therefore her mum/dad would know she hadn't got changed. Just an idea.

 

[SirRobert]

Maybe after checking the laundry basket the clothes from friday were not there.Greg would know what she was wearing to work and therefore her mum/dad would know she hadn't got changed. Just an idea.

Hi Robin Hood, the clothes issue is interesting too.

I wonder why the police would bother involving the public at all as they have done here, even with facebook, if they are putting out incorrect or 'devious' information. I'd have thought that had the victim not been found wearing the clothes she'd had on the Friday would have been proof she had indeed been home to the flat before disappearing. But we weren't told anything like that and still haven't been.

The clothes basket would also, perhaps, along with other things (like dishes, bedding and so on) have made it clear to anyone who knew her that she either had or had not been in the flat that weekend, certainly overnight.

If the police had been treating this as murder in all but name, would they not have treated the flat as a crime scene from the off? Forensics and all that?

Maybe they did and we just haven't been told. But I doubt it.

 

[liz b.]

I haven't been able to understand why any killer would remove Ms Yeates's body from the flat.

Being kidnapped without shoes or her private belongings, bundled into a car or whatever, would place the murder scene elsewhere - the police have not suggested that they are dealing with three sites (kidnap flat, murder scene, body location).

If as the police think the killing took place in the flat, why on earth would a killer then move the body into a car, across a city, to a public place for disposal? Why not leave it where it is and scarper?

Certainly if it was an accidental death during attack, removal would be very odd. But there is no sense from what the police say that this was an accident or an unintentional killing - a ligature would make it even less likely that it was a misadventure.

If it was premeditated, there would be even less reason to move the body. Premeditation would surely have included a killing in the flat with a quick, unnoticed escape. The killer would have bargained for doing the killing in the flat - if not, he or she would have done it elsewhere, say on the road.

I have wondered all along if the girl made it back to the flat at all. That she had maybe been killed elsewhere, in a car, and her body disposed of in one go; and that the flat is not a true feature in the affair at all, but a kind of misdirection.

However, the police investigation would indicate otherwise, as they believe she returned to the flat after her drinks evening.

Which is why I have wondered why her parents were so sure from the off that she had been abducted because of how the flat looked, but neither the boyfriend nor the police seemed to recognise anything immediately suspicious. Why her parents thought what they did, we haven't been told.

Had the cider been poured? Were there dirty dishes or glasses? Were both cider bottles present, one full and the other half-empty? Had the lights been left on, burning for two days? Or did they have to be switched on when the boyfriend arrived back on Sunday?

We may never know the answers to these. But I think, for what it's worth, that the 'condition' of the flat and the attitude of the police in thinking for several days they were dealing with a missing person rather than a murdered person, will prove critical to whether or not the case gets solved.

Thanks for everyone for your thoughts on here.

Interesting that you used the word "kidnapping". I had wondered if this could have actually been a botched kidnapping. Directed at Jop's father. Was there possibly something in the flat which would have indicated this ? A note ? Because LE was all over this case right away.And Jo's parents thought the worst very quickly,IMO. I can't think of anything else which makes sense,given the removal of her body. But, I can see I should stop looking logically at what was probably an illogical,brutal, and sensless act.

One other thing which is vaguely possible : the killer wanted to keep her body close to him. So he kept her for a few days and then dumped the body.

All JMO

 

[gloriana]

This news bulletin is interesting regarding the Rebecca interview- but more confusion over the disposal site, I'm afraid (I'm still with you on that one, Phillb!).

It states that the video was edited by the police, so we won't be seeing the full version anytime soon, I think. http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b006pft9

Thanks teabreid - professional cleaners are in CJ's flat then - perhaps not long before he moves back in.
I'm sure I remember reading that GR said he would never return to Bristol because of the memories he had there with Jo.

 

[mikeymot]

This news bulletin is interesting regarding the Rebecca interview- but more confusion over the disposal site, I'm afraid (I'm still with you on that one, Phillb!).

It states that the video was edited by the police, so we won't be seeing the full version anytime soon, I think. http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b006pft9

During this clip the police are now not confirming that they have found DNA....think the police are playing games and using the press to leak 'facts' and 'fiction', if they are not careful they may well lose the public interest which has obviously been so vital to them until now.

 

[mikeymot]

Interesting that you used the word "kidnapping". I had wondered if this could have actually been a botched kidnapping. Directed at Jop's father. Was there possibly something in the flat which would have indicated this ? A note ? Because LE was all over this case right away.And Jo's parents thought the worst very quickly,IMO. I can't think of anything else which makes sense,given the removal of her body. But, I can see I should stop looking logically at what was probably an illogical,brutal, and sensless act.

One other thing which is vaguely possible : the killer wanted to keep her body close to him. So he kept her for a few days and then dumped the body.

All JMO

Another thought I had was...what if a photo/message had been left on Jos' 'phone...aimed at G/R and this is why he was allowed to answer the call from R/S...although he still had the 'phone...the police could well have been sitting with him waiting for contact from the perp?

 

[Firefly75]

http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/stand...fund-raises-pound-3000-for-missing-persons.do

Jo's fund raises money.

 

[MMENJBRIT]

Re: Nat Susp


from naturally suspicious
broke my left wrist badly just before xmas...hence typing with no capital letters or question marks....

largely confined to house up till now...and very -painful.
waking up in the night after anaesthetic in pain....feeling extremely scared.

Sorry to hear about your broken wrist.. Hopefully it will get better each day..

 

[Luna15]

I'm sure the police are keeping and eye on him just incase he silences himself.

JMHO

On 'BBC Points West'/the local (Bristol) news programme, it show's and states that professional cleaners were in the flat of CJ yesterday afternoon..... now what does that suggest?? wonder whose paying for the clean up of the mess the police made??

The above link is only available for another 3 hours and I am not IT savvy enough to 'save' it :ashamed: it has some good ariel shots of the quarry, although I think they are also mis-reporting the spot of where Jo's body was found? I am sure it is where Phillb has pinpointed on the magnificent images he has posted......

Well worth watching the first few mins of this programme from last night

http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b00xfhhb/BBC_Points_West_12_01_2011/

 

[Firefly75]

One other thing which is vaguely possible : the killer wanted to keep her body close to him. So he kept her for a few days and then dumped the body.

All JMO

Possible, and would fit in with the sick mind that person has.

 

[liz b.]

Another thought I had was...what if a photo/message had been left on Jos' 'phone...aimed at G/R and this is why he was allowed to answer the call from R/S...although he still had the 'phone...the police could well have been sitting with him waiting for contact from the perp?

That's a very interesting possibilty. Especially if the phone was actually left out in plain view. I think LE is not telling the whole truth about many things. But,I believe them when they call it a "very complex case ". Makes me think I'm very wrong to assume it was a break in with rape in mind...

All JMO

 

[naturally suspicious]

I don't understand. Whose son are you talking about? You don't seem to specify in this post or the earlier one. Sorry if I'm being dim.

when i say son, i mean mine. i have 2 in bristol, 1 living with g/f in next house to murder site and another ,living in redland, who works with a man who was educated at clifton college,taught by cj, who feels that cj not capable of this murder...not strong enough.
son no 2 also has g/f in clifton, but a little further away....just a few streets...hence my interest...and fear of...this case.
plus effects of anaesthetic and nightpain= i am really keen to see killer come to justice.
plus, i used to work in bristol...teaching... so no stranger to people presenting themselves as someone they are not...
so.....REALLY HOOKED.
i do think sleuthing on this site is EXCELLENT...

 

[gloriana]

Interesting that you used the word "kidnapping". I had wondered if this could have actually been a botched kidnapping. Directed at Jop's father. Was there possibly something in the flat which would have indicated this ? A note ?

Intriguing. If she was 'kidnapped' it would tie in with CJ's version of accounts. Although he did later retract said statement saying it had been a serious distortion of the truth.
But why to get at David Yeates? He is in IT I believe. Not a big earner and certainly not able to shell out ransom money.
Jo did attend a private £7,000 a term boarding school but this could have come from an inheritance.
I did mention the parent's body language at that first press conference. As the wife goes to lean on his shoulder (again) he moves forward leaving her looking a bit awkward.
Hope nobody from other site is looking in. I can assure them I haven't even read one article on body language.

 

[Firefly75]

LE might be building a case against someone and want to make sure they do it so well the person has no way of getting out of it, even with the best lawyer they can get. With no witnesses and no confession they have to build the case very carefully because the killer is sure to try everything to make it appear that he is a scapegoat and that there's every reason for him not to have an alibi for that night or for something of his to have been found in the flat or on Jo, be it DNA or anything else.

I really hope that's what they're doing.

 

[Nausicaa]

I don’t think we are going to get very far trying to identify the murderer until we have first applied our sleuthing talents to the police statements and actions in order to fill in the missing parts of the jigsaw puzzle of what they know but don’t want to reveal.

Here’s an example of what I mean. The police have stated that they don’t know whether Joanna ate the pizza or not. They have added no details. But it is obvious that there has been an autopsy which would examine the stomach contents and the police would therefore know whether there was a pizza in her stomach or not. On reflection, it is clear that if there had been a pizza in her stomach, the police would not say they didn’t know. I therefore deduce that there was no pizza in Joanna’s stomach. I further deduce that the reason the police say they don’t know whether she ate it is that they have no absolute proof that she died on Friday night. If she had died a day or two later, the pizza would have been digested.

Now, continuing the same technique, here are some questions that occur to me, many of which have already been raised.

1. Why did the police come out so swiftly to a missing person call on Sunday night ? Did the call by any chance tie in with some other fact they were already aware of ?

2. Why have the police expressed absolute certainty that Joanna arrived safely home on Friday night ?

3. What were the details about the flat which enabled Mr and Mrs Yeates to conclude, in about half an hour, that Joanna had been abducted, but which Mrs Yeates specifically states that the police have asked her not to reveal ? (We know about the presence of Joanna’s coat, footwear, phone, purse, key, but Mrs Yeates implies that there was something which she and her husband saw but which the public do not yet know and the police prefer them not to know.)

4. Given that the Yeates parents were already convinced that Joanna had been abducted, why did the police go further and warn them to be “prepared for the worst” ? Why was everyone speaking of Joanna in the past tense before the discovery of the body ? (Abduction without murder does exist.)

5. Why was the police warning to other Bristol women to take care rather late and rather soft ? Had the police some grounds for thinking that this was a one-off, or that the culprit would not be willing or able to strike again at present ?

6. Why did the police arrest CJ as suspect of murder ? Is the fact of having apparently softened his story of what he saw on Friday night sufficient explanation or was there something else ?

7. Why did the police reveal from the start the existence of the CCTV footage, the till receipt, the mystery of the missing pizza, etc., but not the missing sock ?

8. The police yesterday announced that a member of the public had handed in an important piece of evidence and the forensic team thereupon returned to 44 Canynge Road. What might it have been ?

9. Why did the police take away the front door of the flat for forensic examination elsewhere, but not the internal doors ?

10. Is there a reason why the police have created an artificial memorial site some fifty yards away from where the body was in fact discovered ?

11. Is it possible that some single fact provides the answer to several of the questions on this list ?

Any thoughts, fellow-sleuths ?

 

[MrZhivago]

when i say son, i mean mine. i have 2 in bristol, 1 living with g/f in next house to murder site and another ,living in redland, who works with a man who was educated at clifton college,taught by cj, who feels that cj not capable of this murder...not strong enough.
son no 2 also has g/f in clifton, but a little further away....just a few streets...hence my interest...and fear of...this case.
plus effects of anaesthetic and nightpain= i am really keen to see killer come to justice.
plus, i used to work in bristol...teaching... so no stranger to people presenting themselves as someone they are not...
so.....REALLY HOOKED.
i do think sleuthing on this site is EXCELLENT...

Ah, I see.
Hope the wrist heals up swiftly.

 

[Phillb]

This news bulletin is interesting regarding the Rebecca interview- but more confusion over the disposal site, I'm afraid (I'm still with you on that one, Phillb!).

It states that the video was edited by the police, so we won't be seeing the full version anytime soon, I think. http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b006pft9

LOL that dreaded quarry wall again
Thanks for the link teabreid, I think it goes to show even the press make assumptions and report what they think they know, rather than what they do know. Those flowers aren't like the X on a treasures map, they don't have to mark the exact spot. For instance, we have two Police officers gunned down in Leeds over the years. Both locations have stone tributes, but neither tribute is in exactly the same place obviously. People would trip over them. So there in the most suitable location near the spot.

Anyway that's the end of that from me

Just a few things that puzzle me now.
The Rebecca Scott video was organised, filmed, and edited by the Avon Police. Not only is that unusual, Isn't it unprecedented?
Nothing happens without a reason.

I'm also a little concerened the Police (like we all) naturally assume the murder took place in the flat. They have no evidence to back this up as far as i know. Granted we all think it has to have happened there, what with Jo having no coat, or shoes (especially shoes) I wonder if G.R knew just how many shoes, slippers or boots Jo had? Young women are well known for having loads I wonder if he would know if any were missing??

 

[mikeymot]

Intriguing. If she was 'kidnapped' it would tie in with CJ's version of accounts. Although he did later retract said statement saying it had been a serious distortion of the truth.
But why to get at David Yeates? He is in IT I believe. Not a big earner and certainly not able to shell out ransom money.
Jo did attend a private £7,000 a term boarding school but this could have come from an inheritance.
I did mention the parent's body language at that first press conference. As the wife goes to lean on his shoulder (again) he moves forward leaving her looking a bit awkward.
Hope nobody from other site is looking in. I can assure them I haven't even read one article on body language.

Okay...doesn't sound likely that Jos' father is loaded....but what about other members of the family...grandparents, aunts, uncles.....IF...this is an abduction...then maybe this accounts for the four hours when G/R appeared to do nothing...maybe the police were already there?...maybe the 'ransom' or whatever else they were demanding was left in the flat (either note or mobile message)..with instructions to wait for a call on Jos' mobile?

 

[wfgodot]

10. Is there a reason why the police have created an artificial memorial site some fifty yards away from where the body was in fact discovered ?

I wondered at the time JY's parents and GR laid flowers at the site why the police would allow GR - even given the not-a-suspect/is-a-witness element - to be at such an important place to the investigation. When it turned out that that site was not precisely where Jo's body was found, I said, "Aha."