GUILTY UK - Joanna Yeates, 25, Clifton, Bristol, 17 Dec 2010 #5

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These words caught my attention in the press. Normally a victim is described as having been strangled. I'm beginning to wonder now if it was indeed a sex game that had gone terribly wrong.

Indeed Gloriana, I think this is a very strong possibility. I posted this last night and am leaning more to this theory today. If so why doesnt the person she was with come forward and tell the truth and stop the investigation now.
 
TulipaNoir - do you have a link please.

If it is proven to be fact that the flat was tidy, then I go back to my Sunday night theory. We were told (for what it's worth) that JY stayed behind to tidy up in readiness for Tuesday's party. If the apartment was found by LE to be tidy, then either

it wasn't messy in the first place (JY might possibly have been using the 'tidying up' thing to get out of going to Sheffield, or for other reasons ?)
or
JY tidied up veeery quickly Friday evening before being murdered Friday evening/early hours Saturday (or being murdered some other time before bf returned)
or
JY tidied up during the weekend and the bf returned Sunday - argued, etc.
or
the perp tidied up

jmo


Hi, yes, my reply was to Robin Hood providing the link to this interesting article:
http://www.cliftonpeople.co.uk/news...fton-College/story-10457667-detail/story.html

If the journalist is right, I wonder who would have reason to tidy the flat up, assuming JY didn't do it (I think she died on Friday night)?

The perp would have reason to get rid of forensic evidence, but no reason to tidy up unless (and here I'm hitting a brick wall).
 
Hello sleuthers - I've finally plucked up courage to register after reading avidly for days ... so please be gentle with me especially if I ask 'stupid' questions as my memory storage capacity is diabolical and I have a very disorganised method of thinking and writing.

I have been following the case closely since day one and my opinions have not changed much since then. I have always been interested in crimes, not I hope because I have a dark mind but because it fascinates me that people can actually kill ( I couldnt harm a fly!)

I believe that Jo was actually murdered in a car - She got home to find someone she wasnt expecting to be home until later that weekend. An argument may have taken place over the text message sent. They decide to go out to get a takeaway and possibly more alcohol as 2 small bottles isnt enough.

Jo pops on a fresh pair of boots as the others are wet/damp (please also note that in the cctv she is shown to be wearing the soft Ugg like boots which as ladies know get very damp very easily in bad weather. These boots are very comfortable almost slipper like and can be purchased quite cheaply. I would think that she has a couple of pairs in different colours)

Anyway... Jo leaves keys and phone because they are not needed as there is of course another set which belongs to someone else! The intention was for him to drive the car as she had been drinking, she could run into the shop get more alcohol while he waited in the car outside the shop.

Of course this didnt happen and an argument happened. Jo is now dead. Blind panic sets in and of course he needs to get rid of the body. She is dumped and luckily for him the snow starts falling. Schools have broken up, the roads are quieter and people have Christmas on their minds. In those icy and snowy driving conditions my nose was almost touching the windscreen when driving as it really was hazardous.

What really bothers me is why for the life of me I cannot find the appeal that G/R did? It has disappeared from the face of the earth and would appreciate if anyone knew a link? Also very strange is the appeal (cant even call it that) that her best friend did?? All she seemed to be doing was stating that Jo wasnt seeing someone else. Her parents also stated that she wasnt the type to be two timing? Is this a message to the murderer I wonder?

The pizza? I believe the murderer handled that and came home to dispose of it - he wouldnt know that her body wouldnt be found until Christmas day.

What do you think? Shall I get my coat?
 
I never accepted that the body could have lain undiscovered where it was found for a week. If it was found on Christmas morning, the quietest morning of the year, why would it not be found on any of the previous days? I won't bang on again about the regularity of dog walkers' habits.

I personally walk a different way every time I walk my dogs.

What if those who walk their dogs on Longwood Lane normally have to do it outside working hours, ie; early in the morning, or in the evening. The days are pretty short there in December, so even if they do always walk the same route, they may normally walk it in low light conditions.

Then comes Christmas Day, potentially the first day in a while where the walkers don't have to work, and as such are able to do their walk during daylight hours.

I don't think it's useful to completely discount the possibility that the body wasn't there from shortly after JY went missing. She may not have been there the whole time, but equally she may have been (ETA:) and simply not noticed. (I know personally from search and rescue that even when you are deliberately searching it is possible to go straight past what you are looking for and not even notice it.)
 
I personally walk a different way every time I walk my dogs.

What if those who walk their dogs on Longwood Lane normally have to do it outside working hours, ie; early in the morning, or in the evening. The days are pretty short there in December, so even if they do always walk the same route, they may normally walk it in low light conditions.

Then comes Christmas Day, potentially the first day in a while where the walkers don't have to work, and as such are able to do their walk during daylight hours.

I don't think it's useful to completely discount the possibility that the body wasn't there from shortly after JY went missing. She may not have been there the whole time, but equally she may have been.


Good points !

Also, blood settles soon after death. It pools and that stains the skin. Even if the body is moved later, the original pooling-stains can be noted. So the police should already know whether or not the body lay at the quarry entrance from the outset, or if it had been elsewhere and moved later to the quarry
 
I think the suspect list is now very narrow:

GR
PS
LP
CJ (though I don't believe it is him)
MW
RS
her boss
 
My first post and I’m going to throw myself into the deep end already.

The only one who ticks all the boxes for me at the moment is MW.
It’s possible to have a male friend without there being any kind of sexual relationship. This doesn’t mean to say that he may not have secret desires though.

According to MW he was at a Christmas party and didn’t reply to Joanna’s text until an hour later. This contradicts the first report where he supposedly states that he was asleep in bed. If both quotes are true, then why change the alibi?

The wording of the text message apparently sent to Joanna: Where are you? Do you fancy a drink?

Considering Joanna had been in contact with MW via Facebook and email, then ‘Where are you?’ doesn’t make sense in the context that she’s asking whereabouts he’s now living. It may make more sense if there'd been a prearranged meeting and he hadn’t turned up. ‘Do you fancy a drink?’ could simply be brain working faster than fingers and could mean: ‘do you still want that drink?’ In other words: where the hell have you got to? Do you still want that drink or not?

Warning!! The following is only speculation on my behalf.

MW wasn’t far from Joanna’s home - Clifton Triangle where he was, apparently, attending his work Christmas party. Having read Joanna’s text he perhaps later met up with her at the flat. Something happened which ended in Joanna being strangled. Perhaps he harboured secret desires for his friend which perhaps surfaced with the help of alcohol induced Dutch courage consumed previously at the party? Perhaps Joanna refused his advances? I can only speculate.

Everything’s gone wrong. He now has a dead person on his hands. So what to do? The problem here is how on earth did he get Joanna’s body out of the flat? If having successfully (somehow) removed her body, he perhaps placed her in a temporary place of hiding. He returns to the party where he replies to Joanna’s ‘Where are you?’ text at around 9:20pm saying he can’t make it. Perhaps at a later date, when his thoughts are more in order, he moves her to Longwood Lane at a time when there will be less activity in the area.

Back to Joanna’s text. She apparently sent it at around 8:20pm before heading off to Bargain Booze and Tesco. She’s only just sent the text and hasn’t received a reply to say he’s not coming, so there’s no reason to cancel plans just yet and still get the things in for the evening just in case.

At first it didn’t seem unusual to buy two 330ml bottles for personal consumption...however; the Tesco CCTV seems to show Joanna holding two plastic bags in her right hand. One black; one white. The dark bag looks to contain two small bottles, so presumably the two bottles of cider, while the light bag looks as if it there’s a taller bottle...possibly wine. If that is a bottle of wine then it suggests she was expecting a visitor that night after all.

Going by what we do know, Joanna sent a text to MW and no one else. Going by the wording of the text, he seems the most likely person to be the company she may have been expecting.

But... None of the above explains the missing pizza or (if that is a bottle of wine in the white carrier) where the bottle of wine has gone – the police mentioned cider, but not wine.

For me, at least for the moment, MW and GR are teetering on the top rungs of the suspect ladder. GR mostly because it seems odd to be that emotional when at the time it was a plea for a missing person. You’d be forgiven for thinking that the press conference was after finding Jo’s body. My main suspicions are the lack of photographs from the Christening and (apparently) skiing. Surely photos had been taken at an event such as this? With the tide of suspicion swelling over GR's whereabouts over the weekend I thought this would be something his half-brother and/or sister-in-law would release. And eight out of ten murders involving women tend to be at the hands of their nearest and dearest.

Having said all that, there is a danger that I may be trying to make things fit, so I could very well be wrong.
 
Does anyone have a link to G/R full press conference? Theres a tiny clip on ITN source but the main part has been axed? http://www.itnsource.com/shotlist/ITN/2010/12/22/T22121033/?v=0&a=1
As of yet I have found no trace of him speaking. I know that he said " I thought we would be together forever"
All I could find was a 3 second clip of him 'squeezing' his eyes shut for the tears to fall. I find it very baffling that there has been a blackout of this.
 
http://www.thisisbristol.co.uk/news...ton-clues/article-3101694-detail/article.html

'Residents in Long Ashton reported numerous police officers combing the grass verges along Providence Lane – the road that runs into Longwood Lane where Miss Yeates’ snow-covered body was found on Christmas Day by dog walkers'.

Interesting news. It coincides with the theory the body 'might' have been somewhere else prior to Longwood Lane.

There's several ramshackle out buildings, and sheds in this compound just off Providence Lane here
http://snipurl.com/1u6s71
 
My first post and I’m going to throw myself into the deep end already.

The only one who ticks all the boxes for me at the moment is MW.
It’s possible to have a male friend without there being any kind of sexual relationship. This doesn’t mean to say that he may not have secret desires though.

According to MW he was at a Christmas party and didn’t reply to Joanna’s text until an hour later. This contradicts the first report where he supposedly states that he was asleep in bed. If both quotes are true, then why change the alibi?

The wording of the text message apparently sent to Joanna: Where are you? Do you fancy a drink?

Considering Joanna had been in contact with MW via Facebook and email, then ‘Where are you?’ doesn’t make sense in the context that she’s asking whereabouts he’s now living. It may make more sense if there'd been a prearranged meeting and he hadn’t turned up. ‘Do you fancy a drink?’ could simply be brain working faster than fingers and could mean: ‘do you still want that drink?’ In other words: where the hell have you got to? Do you still want that drink or not?

Warning!! The following is only speculation on my behalf.

MW wasn’t far from Joanna’s home - Clifton Triangle where he was, apparently, attending his work Christmas party. Having read Joanna’s text he perhaps later met up with her at the flat. Something happened which ended in Joanna being strangled. Perhaps he harboured secret desires for his friend which perhaps surfaced with the help of alcohol induced Dutch courage consumed previously at the party? Perhaps Joanna refused his advances? I can only speculate.

Everything’s gone wrong. He now has a dead person on his hands. So what to do? The problem here is how on earth did he get Joanna’s body out of the flat? If having successfully (somehow) removed her body, he perhaps placed her in a temporary place of hiding. He returns to the party where he replies to Joanna’s ‘Where are you?’ text at around 9:20pm saying he can’t make it. Perhaps at a later date, when his thoughts are more in order, he moves her to Longwood Lane at a time when there will be less activity in the area.

Back to Joanna’s text. She apparently sent it at around 8:20pm before heading off to Bargain Booze and Tesco. She’s only just sent the text and hasn’t received a reply to say he’s not coming, so there’s no reason to cancel plans just yet and still get the things in for the evening just in case.

At first it didn’t seem unusual to buy two 330ml bottles for personal consumption...however; the Tesco CCTV seems to show Joanna holding two plastic bags in her right hand. One black; one white. The dark bag looks to contain two small bottles, so presumably the two bottles of cider, while the light bag looks as if it there’s a taller bottle...possibly wine. If that is a bottle of wine then it suggests she was expecting a visitor that night after all.

Going by what we do know, Joanna sent a text to MW and no one else. Going by the wording of the text, he seems the most likely person to be the company she may have been expecting.

But... None of the above explains the missing pizza or (if that is a bottle of wine in the white carrier) where the bottle of wine has gone – the police mentioned cider, but not wine.

For me, at least for the moment, MW and GR are teetering on the top rungs of the suspect ladder. GR mostly because it seems odd to be that emotional when at the time it was a plea for a missing person. You’d be forgiven for thinking that the press conference was after finding Jo’s body. My main suspicions are the lack of photographs from the Christening and (apparently) skiing. Surely photos had been taken at an event such as this? With the tide of suspicion swelling over GR's whereabouts over the weekend I thought this would be something his half-brother and/or sister-in-law would release. And eight out of ten murders involving women tend to be at the hands of their nearest and dearest.

Having said all that, there is a danger that I may be trying to make things fit, so I could very well be wrong.

Hi and welcome from a fellow newbie!

It would be interesting to know whether MW kept the text or told the police from memory what it said. If the text was deleted, can it be recovered?

Also, there was a comment on a daily mail article from someone who purported to MW's stepsister, which said that MW left his phone charging in the office, whilst being at the Christmas party. Hence not replying earlier to her text.
 
The problem here is how on earth did he get Joanna’s body out of the flat?

But would he need to move the body?

The dark bag looks to contain two small bottles, so presumably the two bottles of cider, while the light bag looks as if it there’s a taller bottle...possibly wine. If that is a bottle of wine then it suggests she was expecting a visitor that night after all.
But... None of the above explains the missing pizza or (if that is a bottle of wine in the white carrier) where the bottle of wine has gone – the police mentioned cider, but not wine.

As far as we know the receipt from Bargain Booze only listed the two bottles of cider.

For me, at least for the moment, MW and GR are teetering on the top rungs of the suspect ladder. GR mostly because it seems odd to be that emotional when at the time it was a plea for a missing person. You’d be forgiven for thinking that the press conference was after finding Jo’s body. My main suspicions are the lack of photographs from the Christening and (apparently) skiing. Surely photos had been taken at an event such as this? With the tide of suspicion swelling over GR's whereabouts over the weekend I thought this would be something his half-brother and/or sister-in-law would release. And eight out of ten murders involving women tend to be at the hands of their nearest and dearest.

Couldn't agree more.
 
Great post Sasha and welcome.
I think you have a very strong and valid point regarding the text "where are you etc". Its quite logical to assume that Joanna is expecting MW from that and he is on his way. Furthermore, if Jo was murdered at around 9.00pm and I think she didnt get a text back immediately, but when she did it was a refusal to her invitation for a drink, could it be that the text was sent after the murder to cover his tracks. I think the return text was around 9.10pm Not much time in between but I am not sure of the timings of the texts. It could also be that when Jo sent the first text, MW was a stones throw away.
 
Interesting news. It coincides with the theory the body 'might' have been somewhere else prior to Longwood Lane.

There's several ramshackle out buildings, and sheds in this compound just off Providence Lane here
http://snipurl.com/1u6s71

If the body had been elsewhere before, it would have been a hell of a risk moving it again. The reason for that in my opinion would be that the perp wanted the body to be found to somewhat ease the pain of JY's parents. Could it be that the perp knows her parents?

I can think of 3 candidates, one of which would have been monitored by police since her being reported missing (I would assume).
 
If the body had been elsewhere before, it would have been a hell of a risk moving it again. The reason for that in my opinion would be that the perp wanted the body to be found to somewhat ease the pain of JY's parents. Could it be that the perp knows her parents?

The killer isn't showing empathy for Jo's parents wanting the body to be found to ease their agony. This killer(s) hasn't enough conscience to give himself up, he/they/she continues to evade the Police, and evade them very well.
 
Good news that the police have finally had the idea of taking a close look at internal plans of 44 Canynge Rd. I hope they will remember that some changes might be made which are not on the plans and may be unknown even to residents - for instance a connection between one flat and another situated directly below.

I presume the journalists are guessing when they say that the police motive for wanting the plans is to locate where the body might have been provisionally stored. More likely IMO it is to evaluate the movements of a hypothetical very local killer.

It looks from the searches along Providence Lane as though that may have been where the famous "important piece of evidence" handed in recently by a member of the public came from. I should think that a few people had the idea of winning the £50000 jackpot by finding an important clue in the countryside surrounding the body site.

I don't find MW a convincing candidate for the perp because it is too easy. Once again, the police may be uninspired and plodding, but they are not newborn babes. They will have turned his alibi inside out and know every helix of his DNA by heart. And don't forget he was at a party. If he left that party early for no apparent reason, plenty of people will be aware of it.

No, I am taking it for granted that GR and MW have rock solid alibis because they are not guilty, and those alibis probably include irrefutable evidence from their mobile phone use and location.

From every point of view I can think of, much more likely is the close neighbour.

One secondary point, I haven't understood Mr Yeates' remark about the flat-tidying. We learn that Joanna and Greg were untidy. We learn that Joanna was planning to spend the weekend tidying. We learn that when Joanna's parents saw the flat, they concluded from this that she had been abducted. But was that because it was still untidy or because it was tidier than she was capable of making it ? Surely it is not beyond the bounds of conceivability for an untidy girl to plan to tidy her flat and then fail to do so even without being abducted or murdered? Good intentions sometimes yield to the weakness of the flesh.

It seems to me pretty clear from police statements that the killer did a thorough clean up job. He covered his personally identifiable traces, but not the fact that someone had been deliberately covering traces. That, if so, would provide additional proof that JY got home and was murdered there.

Once again, I see in my mind's eye a close neighbour who knew that Greg had left for the weekend and could calmly spend time in the flat with no risk of being caught, or could calmly move a body around without being seen. That's my preferred best-fit hypothesis on the facts we know - waiting, like every hypothesis, to be refuted by new evidence.
 
Re: Phil B

Originally Posted by liz b.

And " A source " states that "detectives want to piece together as much detail as possible about whether Jo was killed in her flat "... So, the place of death does not really seem to have been established...

All JMO

This is what I said yesterday there was no hard fact she was killed in the flat as yet, just presumption she was. I'm also surprised they've only just started to look at alternative places to hide the body. I posted those old Victorian plans of the flat on here the other day and mentioned those out buildings e.t.c.
Last edited by Phillb; Today at 03:09 AM.

Phil....I swear L/E are looking at your Maps on here!
 
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