I know that saliva has been reported in some papers but Im hoping that whatever has been found was under Jo's finger nails - she had nice length nails as you can see in photos and Im so hoping that she managed to take some of their dna so she can at least 'tell' what happened. I also wonder if the partial dna could be saline which could indicate a teardrop ? Does anyone know if teardrops contain dna?
GUILTY UK - Joanna Yeates, 25, Clifton, Bristol, 17 Dec 2010 #6
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I know that saliva has been reported in some papers but Im hoping that whatever has been found was under Jo's finger nails - she had nice length nails as you can see in photos and Im so hoping that she managed to take some of their dna so she can at least 'tell' what happened. I also wonder if the partial dna could be saline which could indicate a teardrop ? Does anyone know if teardrops contain dna?
equationgirl
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Please could you point to the police statement or news article where this has been stated by the police? I can't seem to find it. Thanks
equationgirl
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Yes - according this article, teardrops can contain DNA
http://www.cbc.ca/news/background/crime/dna.html
Please could you point to the police statement or news article where this has been stated by the police? I can't seem to find it. Thanks
Try -
http://www.avonandsomerset.police.uk/LocalPages/NewsDetails.aspx?nsid=22383&t=1&lid=1
See the statement dated 3/01/2011; "I am satisfied that Jo got back to her flat but I am not going to speculate whether she let someone into the flat, whether someone was already there or whether someone broke into the flat."
equationgirl
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Maybe I'm just reading it wrong - but to me that doesn't rule out that she left the flat to go elsewehere. To me it just says that they know for sure that she got home on the Friday.
Thanks for the link aneurin, appreciated.
Thanks for the link aneurin, appreciated.
laserdisc10
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Maybe I'm just reading it wrong - but to me that doesn't rule out that she left the flat to go elsewehere. To me it just says that they know for sure that she got home on the Friday.
Thanks for the link aneurin, appreciated.
Good thought. But then -- how to explain why she'd leave her phone, purse, keys etc. at the flat ?
Agreed.
Unfortunately I think I nicked the comment about Joanne being killed in her flat from this article. So not a police statement after all; however Prof David Wilson seems to be a well respected criminologist and professor at Birmingham City University.
laserdisc10
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The last thing I'd leave behind would be my house keys. Without them, you can't get back in. Everything you have is inside your home. Without your keys, you're on the street. I doubt any woman would willingly leave her home without her keys. She might leave her purse, if she were popping out to collect the mail or to speak with a neighbour or even to have a quick drink with a neighbour. She might well leave her phone. But what woman or man for that matter, would walk out of their home for any reason at all, leaving their keys behind, thus meaning they could not get back in ?
Only reason I can think of is that she was enticed into opening the door - only to be overpowered and taken away somewhere
The motive doesn't appear to be sexual attack or robbery or confrontation with someone in a rage
But then, the police have been so miserly with information released, that we can only speculate endlessly. And the chances of someone remembering sighting her during the time in question have been decimated by the fact the police didn't even provide the public with a description of what she was wearing. Now, a month along, people's memories -- with nothing to prod them in the weeks that have passed -- have been discarded. Our memory only stores things of importance to us. Otherwise, our memory is a lot like cctv - it rewinds and records over unless there's a reason to isolate and store something. I've been trying to remember individuals I saw in the week before Christmas. I stood next to them in shops and waited for people to pay by card, etc. I heard their voices, I looked at them. But I can't remember them. Because I have no reason to. It was a busy week for almost everyone out there. If police had provided even basic colours of what she was wearing when found, someone's memory might have been prodded, just a week after her disappearance. But they didn't and I can't understand why
Only reason I can think of is that she was enticed into opening the door - only to be overpowered and taken away somewhere
The motive doesn't appear to be sexual attack or robbery or confrontation with someone in a rage
But then, the police have been so miserly with information released, that we can only speculate endlessly. And the chances of someone remembering sighting her during the time in question have been decimated by the fact the police didn't even provide the public with a description of what she was wearing. Now, a month along, people's memories -- with nothing to prod them in the weeks that have passed -- have been discarded. Our memory only stores things of importance to us. Otherwise, our memory is a lot like cctv - it rewinds and records over unless there's a reason to isolate and store something. I've been trying to remember individuals I saw in the week before Christmas. I stood next to them in shops and waited for people to pay by card, etc. I heard their voices, I looked at them. But I can't remember them. Because I have no reason to. It was a busy week for almost everyone out there. If police had provided even basic colours of what she was wearing when found, someone's memory might have been prodded, just a week after her disappearance. But they didn't and I can't understand why
equationgirl
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I'm wondering if she went elsewhere in the building with her keys but not her purse (a party has been mentioned), died elsewhere and whoever killed her put her keys back inside the property, pulling the door shut behind them as they went. However, I'd need to know more about the locks on the door (Yale only, Yale + mortice etc).
My feeling is that her body was moved because it had to be.
My feeling is that her body was moved because it had to be.
laserdisc10
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Would be much easier to fling the keys --- anywhere -- than risk returning to the flat in order to put them in her bag, don't you think ?
Why would anyone risk being seen near or in her flat, merely in order to politely return her keys to her bag ?
If someone had thrown the keys over a bridge or into a stream or into a city garbage bin (in the bottom of a crushed McDonald's bag) or left them in a public toilet or simply tossed them out of the window of a moving car (all after wiping them clear of prints) then there would be no risk to themselves and those keys very probably would never be found. The investigation would be focused differently as would our speculations
Can anyone think of any reason the killer would return the keys to her bag, inside her flat ?
I feel that the keys were originally on the table/ a bowl and 'someone' placed them in the bag...this is the reason that GR has another few hours to 'discover' that her keys were in the bag and buys him time not to alert her family that she could be missing. Afterall ...if the keys had been in sight when he entered he would know that something was wrong
Just out of curio - how many women here put their keys in their bag? I never have and every female friend i have is like me just popping the keys down on the nearest surface
So, 4 weeks on, the police are just now considering the possibility that Jo went somewhere else between Tesco and the flat. So much for mobile phone triangulation data. 20 years ago, there was a technique known as "door to door enquiries". Every property between the Tesco store and the flat would have been called on by the police in the first days of the enquiry. Not a bad technique, actually. Strikes me it would have been time better spent than hundreds of hours looking through cctv video footage from a bridge only a simpleton would cross with a body in their car.
whitedove
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I don't think there would be DNA under her finger nails pipkins, its not been reported anywhere that there was a struggle, yes they can get DNA from a flake of skin as far as I know.
your comment, " Only reason I can think of is that she was enticed into opening the door - only to be overpowered and taken someplace else "... resonates with me for the following reasons :
1. The person at a party across the street ( who had stepped out to have a smoke ) heard two screams at around 9pm. I had previously mentioned that I thought the front door was possibly open, and that's why this woman was able to hear the screams.
2. The fact that LE took away the front door, looking for dna like blood or hair stuck to it.
IMO, these facts make it sound like there was a confrontation at or very near the front door of the flat. It makes me wonder if CJ was telling the truth when he said he saw 3 people leaving the flat that night. And I wonder if they also saw him ?
Some interesting facts about this case IMO,are : the huge police presence that night when GR called to report her missing. The fact that her parents were very quickly aware that she had been abducted. The very large ( at least to me ) amount of $$$ spent on this case.
LE described this as a "very complex" case, which, IMO, would cast some doubt on it being a case of attempted rape,B & E, ETC.
It just doesn't sound like LE is close to making any arrests. IMO
All JMO
It would buy him even more time if they weren't there at all .....
I am sure they have been considering all possibilities from the start. Just because the papers have only just got hold of something, it doesn't mean it's only just happened.
equationgirl
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Not me. I leave them in a bowl in a the kitchen (nearest surface to front door). In previous flats, I've had enough room for a table in the hallway so they tend to be put in a bowl on that.
I think someone put the keys back in the flat but not in sight to a) buy themselves time for whatever they needed to do and b) help any trail that could directly lead from JY to them go cold and make it harder for the police to link them.
I never put mine in my purse but perhaps that was her habit, or the killer put them there for some reason before he left, assuming he was in the interior of the flat.
What I don't understand is the theory she could've been abducted if she left her flat to go around to the other door to fetch her mail. In that case, the keys to her flat would not've been found in her purse, because the killer would not have taken the time to take them back to the flat to drop them in her purse, nor would he chance taking them back to the flat at a later time.
Does anyone think an abduction is plausible?
The only way someone gained entry to the flat was with their own set of keys or she let them in of her own accord. Whether she was then killed inside the flat or dragged outside, I do not know.
whitedove
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According to the D/Express, Jo was in the Ram pub celebrating Christmas, she left early, the rest stayed later, and Taxi's were arranged to take them home.
I wonder why Jo left early, it was'nt to rush home to do the cleaning as she chatted with her best friend, and then phoned another friend to ask if he fancied a drink, she was'nt in the mood for a night of cleaning and cooking mince pies, so it is possible she popped into another pub with her pizza and cider and chatted by the bar to a chatty stranger, I think most of us when we meet people for the first time will think, I feel quite happy with this person, and feel you trust them right away, but others, you may have to get to know them better, did Jo trust some one like this to walk her home.
I wonder why Jo left early, it was'nt to rush home to do the cleaning as she chatted with her best friend, and then phoned another friend to ask if he fancied a drink, she was'nt in the mood for a night of cleaning and cooking mince pies, so it is possible she popped into another pub with her pizza and cider and chatted by the bar to a chatty stranger, I think most of us when we meet people for the first time will think, I feel quite happy with this person, and feel you trust them right away, but others, you may have to get to know them better, did Jo trust some one like this to walk her home.
equationgirl
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enqueteur - I'm afraid I just can't agree with some of what you wrote. If the killer took the chance to remove the body (if we're assuming she was killed at home), which to my mind is a huge risk to take, then replacing keys would be a somewhat smaller risk (again, to my mind).
Until we know more facts for certain, we're going round in circles, I think.
Until we know more facts for certain, we're going round in circles, I think.
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