I always thought that the killer took the pizza almost as an afterthought. He was hungry,and it looked good. An individual without any conscience at all about killing might well do that, IMO.
GUILTY UK - Joanna Yeates, 25, Clifton, Bristol, 17 Dec 2010 #7
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I always thought that the killer took the pizza almost as an afterthought. He was hungry,and it looked good. An individual without any conscience at all about killing might well do that, IMO.
If he had killed her 3 hours after being helped on his way to Sheffield by neighbours, the best solution was to leave the flat immediately, without touching anything, to get to Sheffield and to start calling her and leaving messages ('Hi. You're probably sleeping, I'll call you in the morning.'). And after many unanswered calls in the morning, he would have called her parents and friends, and told them to go see there, and if she was not answering, to call the police.
Anything else seems too dumb to me. Coming back home and calling the police four hours later, for instance, is not a sign that he is guilty but that he is innocent (showing that he was worried way before coming back would have been smarter). As for moving the body away, it would have been good if he had also got rid of the rest (bag, purse, mobile, keys, boots), to make it look like she had left on her own or had been abducted while being outside.
Im interested in the cider business also.
Two bottles of cider doesnt mean there were two people, it could just as easily be two bottles for consumption over the weekend by the same person. Not excessive, Id say.
But where were the bottles of cider in the flat? In the fridge? One in the fridge and one, half-empty, on a table? Down beside a chair on the floor?
Was there a glass used? If so, had it been washed and set on a draining board or put away again? Or was it sitting with the bottle?
Or was the cider drunk 'on the go', as it were, by the neck, on a worktop beside the cooker?
We'll hardly be told if there were forensics lifted off the bottles. We assume both bottles were there in the flat and are now in the possession of the police. Don't we? If they hadnt been there, or if the police couldnt account for them not being there, we'd have been asked if we'd seen or found them.
Its just odd that we know so little about how the flat appeared when the boyfriend arrived back and what was in it at that point. Was a half-empty bottle of cider kept intact for when the police might be called, for example? Or was it emptied down the sink in a minor tidy-up? And just an empty bottle left in the waste bin with a full bottle in the fridge?
For instance, too, it would have been interesting had more been made of the brand of cider. Was it a habit of the victim to buy and drink that brand in that quantity? If not, if the cider might have been bought with someone else in mind, would we not expect an appeal to make more of the brand of cider - who drinks it among the victim's friends and acquaintances?
The texts and the girl's habit of not replying, the pizza, the cider, her texts and phonecalls that evening, meeting up with people or trying to, the tidiness or otherwise of the flat - all this is about lifestyle, her lifestyle and her boyfriend's and their friends and acquaintances. It's odd how little we actually know about any of that, their day-to-day lives, even at work.
The parties she had attended through that week, for example. Where? Whose? And who with?
Two bottles of cider doesnt mean there were two people, it could just as easily be two bottles for consumption over the weekend by the same person. Not excessive, Id say.
But where were the bottles of cider in the flat? In the fridge? One in the fridge and one, half-empty, on a table? Down beside a chair on the floor?
Was there a glass used? If so, had it been washed and set on a draining board or put away again? Or was it sitting with the bottle?
Or was the cider drunk 'on the go', as it were, by the neck, on a worktop beside the cooker?
We'll hardly be told if there were forensics lifted off the bottles. We assume both bottles were there in the flat and are now in the possession of the police. Don't we? If they hadnt been there, or if the police couldnt account for them not being there, we'd have been asked if we'd seen or found them.
Its just odd that we know so little about how the flat appeared when the boyfriend arrived back and what was in it at that point. Was a half-empty bottle of cider kept intact for when the police might be called, for example? Or was it emptied down the sink in a minor tidy-up? And just an empty bottle left in the waste bin with a full bottle in the fridge?
For instance, too, it would have been interesting had more been made of the brand of cider. Was it a habit of the victim to buy and drink that brand in that quantity? If not, if the cider might have been bought with someone else in mind, would we not expect an appeal to make more of the brand of cider - who drinks it among the victim's friends and acquaintances?
The texts and the girl's habit of not replying, the pizza, the cider, her texts and phonecalls that evening, meeting up with people or trying to, the tidiness or otherwise of the flat - all this is about lifestyle, her lifestyle and her boyfriend's and their friends and acquaintances. It's odd how little we actually know about any of that, their day-to-day lives, even at work.
The parties she had attended through that week, for example. Where? Whose? And who with?
I've been looking for any article which mentions what was in the black plastic bag but so far have only found this, where it says, "its contents have not been revealed but police say they are not significant."
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He's behind you!
The point has already been made, but I think those who favour the idea that Jo and MW were to have an intimate dinner together have got to face the fact that even Tesco's best sort of pizza and two small bottles of cider really doesn't seem welcoming enough !
Jo either made it back to the flat that night alive or she didn't.
If she did, the only fly in the ointment is why did the pizza disappear.
If she didn't, the perp had to set decorate the flat to make it look like she did arrive back. Coat, boots, bag and cider.
One of the bottles of cider was found opened in the flat with some of the cider missing. The police may have saliva evidence from the opened bottle or glass to prove she drunk some of it.
If the police believe she got back to the flat I am inclined to agree with them.
If she did, the only fly in the ointment is why did the pizza disappear.
If she didn't, the perp had to set decorate the flat to make it look like she did arrive back. Coat, boots, bag and cider.
One of the bottles of cider was found opened in the flat with some of the cider missing. The police may have saliva evidence from the opened bottle or glass to prove she drunk some of it.
If the police believe she got back to the flat I am inclined to agree with them.
Phillb
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Yes, and also three of them took some effort to dress well despite them being the genuinely grieving. GR had only know her for 5 minutes! At the very least he could have worn smart trousers.
I have also asked myself all these questions. But it seems that, when journalists were told by the police that there was a half-empty bottle of cider in the flat, they were satisfied with the answer and did not think of making them elaborate.
Phillb
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Crimewatch producers call in Harry Potter fake snow firm to re-create day Jo Yeates' body was found in painstaking detail
It looks like they are going for accurate detail with location and snow cover depth for the day.
It looks like they are going for accurate detail with location and snow cover depth for the day.
Good points. Well made.
PLaying devil's advocate.
Do you think maybe he got rid of the body on the Friday in a panic, wanting it out of there, then hightailed it to Sheffield. OVer the ensuing hours he thinks, oh god, that was silly. I should have left it in the flat and done the calls and messages. But too late, what's done is done.
I get the impression that the killer was not in control of events. Things happened and s/he had to react. Otherwise why does it all seem so jumbled up. No seemingly logical, well thought out actions - why was the body left where it was? Why was her stuff plus cider left in the flat but not the pizza. etc.
Three out of four faces are etched with devastating sadness aren't they?
Seeing that pic of GR reminded me of a video I came across last night where it shows, starting around 01:12, him in distress. I've watched it quite a few times.
News Video: 22 Dec 2010
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newsvideo/8219528/Family-appeal-for-missing-Bristol-woman.html
Phillb
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Crocodile tears if ever i've seen them.
He even stops crying, looks at the cameras, see's there still filming, then starts crying again.
You can see he can't wait for the charade to end. He's mighty uncomfortable.
Huhm.
This is interesting stuff now, deckard. But believing isnt quite enough. At no point have the police said as a matter of fact that she arrived back at the flat. Or that that's where she was killed. Or that she was abducted from there.
If this is what they believe as a matter of fact, then you'd expect to see her arriving back at the flat in the reconstruction and going in. Because if anyone's mind can be jogged into confirming she did return, that would be a significant item. And right now they have no one who can confirm that she arrived back home, which, for a street as busy as the police have stated it was that night and the following morning, with cars going to and fro, one would expect would have been the case.
It is certainly difficult to imagine a stranger or random killer 'decorating' the flat after killing the girl elsewhere. But it's not at all difficult to imagine someone known to her - which is what the most recent appeal indicated - shifting back a few items, but forgetting or omitting a few others, in order to give the impression she had returned home and then 'gone missing' mysteriously.
No one is doubting the oddness of the case. The boots off, the missing sock. But really there is nothing else we know of in the flat other than obvious items - coat, keys, a girl's bits and bobs - which couldnt easily have been left back there, knowing no one was expected back to the flat over the weekend. And the risk factor of going in to a flat with an small armful of stuff is much, much lower than going out of a flat with a dead body or a struggling live one.
Which is why the cider issue is interesting. Did the girl drink cider that night? That should be as easy to determine as whether or not she ate pizza - which, in spite of giving the impression she may have eaten the pizza, we now know she did not.
Except the keys, bag, phone, coat, boots and cider made it back to the flat ... all of which suggest that she did make it back to the flat. The only item which casts doubt on her returning to the flat is the pizza ... so if we take the simplest explanation, then she made it back to the flat, and the pizza was taken away.
Not only that, but it doesn't seem enough.
I have found this on the blog of a woman who is trying to lose weight:
'My favourite Tesco finest pizza is only 630 kcals with 16.6 gramms of fat in it. Its full title is Mozzarella Pearls, Rustic Tomato & Basil Pesto Hand Stretched Tuscan Pizza, it's filling and I know if I have one I can still loose weight. Anything over a 1000 kcals is out of bounds, that's just a personal decision.'
To compare, a Big Mac is about 540 kcal and 100 g of French fries are 470 kcal.
As for the two 300ml bottles of cider, they could have been for her Friday dinner and Saturday lunch.
My idea is that she only bought food for herself. She may have intended to have a drink with MW later, outside, in a bar.
Wrong, I think.
From the Avon and Somerset Police website :
28/12/2010 12:21
3/01/2011 14:50
8/01/2011 12:34
There is an unmistakable progression in the police judgement from opinion to certainty, as the evidence rolls in.
Hi, otto ... and the victim who wasnt in the flat either. So it's the pizza and the victim (alive or dead) taken from the flat, not just the pizza.
Everything else listed is no more than an armful.
What casts doubt on her returning is the lack of evidence, apparently, of a struggle in the location, forensic evidence of anyone else being in the flat, no one seeing her return and no one seeing her being bundled out to a car outside or leaving in her sock soles in the company of another party in what was, according to the police, a busy street that night and the next morning.
The only things which suggest she got back are those few items, as far as we know (and if there was more convincing evidence that she got back and was attacked there, the police would have cordoned it off right away, one would think, and would have told us thats where she was killed.)
And even those few items are missing a glaring piece - the pizza she had bought only moments before.
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