GUILTY UK - Karen Buckley, 24, Glasgow, Scotland, 12 April 2015 - #1

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It may take a while depending on the condition of the remains.

BBC confirming as posted above that a formal arrest has now been made.

"A 21-year-old man has been arrested in connection with the death of Irish student, Karen Buckley, Police Scotland say.

Miss Buckley, from Cork, was reported missing after a night out in Glasgow on Saturday.

Police said human remains had been found at a farm in north Glasgow, following a four-day search for the student."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-32330044

Yes I saw that...they are saying in connection with her death...so they have confirmed she is dead? That the remains are hers? Or just assuming, considering. That is what I am wondering.
 
Yes I saw that...they are saying in connection with her death...so they have confirmed she is dead? That the remains are hers? Or just assuming, considering. That is what I am wondering.

I think the police know the remains are Karen's but they wont publicly confirm it until an autopsy has been performed.
 
There's a car repair/paint spraying shop registered to the High Craigton farm so maybe she could have been hidden in a car at the premises and that's what the fire engines were there for.

Her poor mum sounded devastated at the press conference so I can't imagine how she's feeling now. Heartbreaking for all her family and her friends will be blaming themselves for not being there.

I wonder if the police held back from calling him a suspect/person of interest to make him feel comfortable enough to confide in somebody and had his phone bugged or if it was just quick detective work on his mobile phone gps activity?
 
Wondering how quickly they can get phone data in the UK...sometimes it takes a while in the US. Phone companies can slow things down.
 
EE, Vodafone and Three give police mobile call records at click of a mouse

"Mobile operators must by law store a year of call records of all of their customers, which police forces and other agencies can then access without a warrant using the controversial Regulation of Investigatory Powers Act (Ripa)."

http://www.theguardian.com/world/20...ords-like-cash-machine-ripa-three-ee-vodafone

ETA...I meant to quote cluciano63..lost it somewhere
 
Wondering how quickly they can get phone data in the UK...sometimes it takes a while in the US. Phone companies can slow things down.

There have been a couple of cases where police have bugged people's houses to see if they incriminate themselves (or others). Rose West was one, Stephen Lawrence's killers and Shafilea Ahmed's murdering parents.

An interesting article about what can be gleaned from a mobile phone (or cell phone for our American hosts :))

http://www.pcpro.co.uk/features/368674/csi-smartphone
 
I wonder if the accused will be making a court appearance today at the court in Glasgow to be remanded in custody. He wont be bailed as bail isn't offered in Scotland for serious crimes like murder. I wonder if there will be other charges in addition to murder kidnapping or rape for eg.

This link gives information about murder charges for persons aged 21 and over in Scotland.

Crown Prosecution Service - Sentencing - Mandatory life sentences in Murder cases

http://www.cps.gov.uk/legal/s_to_u/sentencing_-_mandatory_life_sentences_in_murder_cases/

Schedule 21 sets out the basic starting points.

a) For adults aged 21 years old and over there are 4 starting points:

a whole life order;
30 years;
25 years (effective from 2 March 2010); and
15 years.

Where the offender is 21 or over at the time of the offence and the court takes the view that the murder is so grave that the offender should spend the rest of their life in prison, a 'whole life order' is the appropriate starting point. The early release provisions in section 28 of the Crime (Sentences) Act 1997 will then not apply. Such an order should only be specified where the court considers that the seriousness of the offence is exceptionally high. Such cases include:

a) the murder of two or more persons where each murder involves a substantial degree of premeditation, the abduction of the victim, or sexual or sadistic conduct;
b) the murder of a child if involving the abduction of the child or sexual or sadistic motivation;
c) a murder done for the purpose of advancing a political, religious or ideological cause; or
d) a murder by an offender previously convicted of murder.

Where the offence is not so serious as to warrant a whole life order but the seriousness of the offence is particularly high the appropriate starting point is 30 years. The following examples are given:

a) the murder of a police or prison officer in the course of his duty;
b) a murder involving the use of a firearm or explosive;
c) a murder done for gain (in the course of a robbery or burglary, or done for payment);
d) a murder intended to obstruct or interfere with the course of justice;
e) a murder involving sexual or sadistic conduct;
f) the murder of two or more persons; or
g) a murder that is racially or religiously aggravated or aggravated by sexual orientation.

Where the offender the offender took a knife or other weapon to the scene intending to (a) commit any offence, or (b) have it available to use as a weapon, and used that knife or other weapon in committing the murder the normal starting point is 25 years. This increased minimum term does not apply in relation to a life sentence imposed for an offence of murder committed before 2 March 2010.

For all other offences the appropriate starting point is 15 years.

Aggravating and Mitigating Factors

Having set a starting point the court must take into account any aggravating or mitigating factors, to the extent that it has not allowed for them in its choice of starting point (paragraph 8, Schedule 21).

Under paragraph 9, detailed consideration of aggravating or mitigating factors may result in a minimum term of any length (whatever the starting point) or in the making of a whole life order.

Aggravating factors that may be relevant include:

a) a significant degree of planning or premeditation;
b) the victim was vulnerable because of age or disability;
c) mental or physical suffering inflicted on the victim before death;
d) the abuse of a position of trust;
e) the use of duress or threats against another person to facilitate the commission of the offence;
f) the victim was providing a public service or performing a public duty; and
g) concealment, destruction or dismemberment of the body.

Mitigating factors include:

a) an intention to cause serious bodily harm rather than kill;
b) lack of premeditation;
c) the offender suffers from a mental disorder or disability (not falling within section 2(1) of the Homicide Act 1957) which lowered their degree of culpability;
d) the offender was provoked in a way not amounting to a defence of provocation;
e) the offender acted to any extent in self-defence;
f) a belief by the offender that the murder was an act of mercy;
g) the age of the offender.

The court should also consider any previous convictions, whether the offence was committed on bail and if the offender pleaded guilty.

The court should take into account any period the offender has spent on remand in connection with the offence or a related offence. The offender will get no credit for time served on remand unless it is taken into account when setting the minimum term. The court should normally subtract the time for which the offender was remanded from the punitive period it would otherwise impose in order to reach the minimum term.
 
Remember too that Scotland have the unique 'not proven' verdict. Just had a look at some stats for Scottish verdicts and there's a high percentile for murder convictions but they drop when it comes to sexual assault/rape convictions. I have faith in our police though and they'll do their utmost to make sure there's a conviction.
 
There have been a couple of cases where police have bugged people's houses to see if they incriminate themselves (or others). Rose West was one, Stephen Lawrence's killers and Shafilea Ahmed's murdering parents.

An interesting article about what can be gleaned from a mobile phone (or cell phone for our American hosts :))

http://www.pcpro.co.uk/features/368674/csi-smartphone

The police also bugged the accomodation they provided for the Philpotts after the fire at their home, if AP has been housed somewhere other than his flat they may well have done the same.

I find the use of the term human remains odd after such a relatively short time of poor Karen being missing, what might have happened that that would be the term used rather than a body.
 
The police also bugged the accomodation they provided for the Philpotts after the fire at their home, if AP has been housed somewhere other than his flat they may well have done the same.

I find the use of the term human remains odd after such a relatively short time of poor Karen being missing, what might have happened that that would be the term used rather than a body.

I thought that was strange too and just hope it's not an actual farm with livestock. I'm on the East coast and although the weather's been quite good over the past few days, it's still been relatively cold even when the sun's been shining. The West usually gets better weather than us though so maybe somebody from the area could let us know if it's been hot/cold.

I remember the Philpott's recordings now you've reminded me. :mad:
 
What awful news to wake up to - so very, very sad for her family and friends - the worst possible news to hear.

R.I.P. Karen - my thoughts are with your family and loved ones x
 
Horrible, horrible news, but sadly not unexpected.

Poor Karen. She has been taken into the hearts of the people of the UK - it brings some comfort to see the outpouring of support for her family and so many people hoping and praying for her; to be reminded that we live in a country(s) full of good, decent people, when often its the bad and evil that seem to dominate the news.

She'll be able to be laid to rest with dignity now, I hope that brings her family some comfort.

This case has made me so angry - what is it with these men who think that can force themselves (presumably) onto women and take what they want from them, then just dump them like pieces of rubbish? There was no need to kill her, no need at all.
 
I am not very familiar with Scottish law. Am I right in thinking that in this case "arrested" actually means "arrested and charged"?
 

I think this is another piece of unclear reporting (which seems to be a feature of this case), I think she was found in a field or other area near the road rather than on the road itself.

If that's true then the fire engines etc must have been to search places on spec rather than to find a body they already knew was in a tank or pit and would explain why the term remains is being used (a body in the open air for 4 days would I'm sure have attracted carrion).

This is all so sad.
 
I am not very familiar with Scottish law. Am I right in thinking that in this case "arrested" actually means "arrested and charged"?

Yes he will have been arrested and notified what he is charged with. He will be remanded in custody at Glasgow Sheriff Court tomorrow.

This link gives information about being arrested and charged in Scotland. http://www.gov.scot/Publications/2004/12/20339/47561
 
I'm 21 and love nothing more than a night out with girlfriends, always with the hope we might meet a good looking lad for the night and instead there's just sick *advertiser censored**s like this around. Looking at social media of her and her friends is absolutely heartbreaking, it could happen to anyone. I feel sick.


RIP Karen, you poor, sweet girl. Love and prayers to her family, heartbroken for them x
 
I think this is another piece of unclear reporting (which seems to be a feature of this case), I think she was found in a field or other area near the road rather than on the road itself.

If that's true then the fire engines etc must have been to search places on spec rather than to find a body they already knew was in a tank or pit and would explain why the term remains is being used (a body in the open air for 4 days would I'm sure have attracted carrion).

This is all so sad.


I agree re the reporting .... it is not clear at all. The way I read the article was they were saying that the farm was on a country road
 
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