GUILTY UK - Karen Buckley, 24, Glasgow, Scotland, 12 April 2015 - #1

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katybeauty said:
its funny how you have a perception that somehow I thought she had disappeared and her friends carried on with their night, I think that is what I thought from the media coverage , I didn't realise that they were worried after 15 mins which of course is completely the right thing to do, Wonder if Karen wanted to buy some drugs from the guy and he told her she would have to come to his car and something happened there , no detriment to Karen but I believe a lot of young people take some stuff, As for the farm I wonder if there was some kind of chemicals there to help with disposal , sorry this is my first post
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Welcome katybeauty. :)
 
Thanks for all the updates everyone. I just had a horrible journey across Germany where people are allowed to drive very fast and it doesn't always work out. :(

I'm very surprised AP wasn't charged with rape or sexual assault. Given he admitted having sex with Karen and she ended up murdered, I would have thought prosecutors have a good case? I thought that was the whole point of them releasing that information but now I can't see why on earth they gave a voice to a man they obviously suspected of killing poor Karen. I don't believe a single word he says about her I'm afraid.

The only reason I can think of that they didn't release cctv outside of the club was because they already knew it was AP on the video and didn't want to weaken the evidence of potential witnesses. I get the distinct impression some people and the police suspected him almost from the get go myself. Poor, poor Karen and her mum and dad. And her brothers. They'll be beside themselves they didn't get the chance to protect her.

I hope Scotland's prosecutors really step up for her - that's all that anyone can do for Karen now.
 
zwiebel said:
Thanks for all the updates everyone. I just had a horrible journey across Germany where people are allowed to drive very fast and it doesn't always work out. :(

I'm very surprised AP wasn't charged with rape or sexual assault. Given he admitted having sex with Karen and she ended up murdered, I would have thought prosecutors have a good case? I thought that was the whole point of them releasing that information but now I can't see why on earth they gave a voice to a man they obviously suspected of killing poor Karen. I don't believe a single word he says about her I'm afraid.

The only reason I can think of that they didn't release cctv outside of the club was because they already knew it was AP on the video and didn't want to weaken the evidence of potential witnesses. I get the distinct impression some people and the police suspected him almost from the get go myself. Poor, poor Karen and her mum and dad. And her brothers. They'll be beside themselves they didn't get the chance to protect her.

I hope Scotland's prosecutors really step up for her - that's all that anyone can do for Karen now.
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Maybe more charges could be added later, maybe false
Imprisonment? I said in an earlier post that I felt that releasing of a totally unsubstantiated statement by a potential suspect into the public domain was a huge error by Police in Glasgow. This was the only error in an otherwise well run investigation.
 
In the Hannah Graham case (she was a student in Virginia, originally from Newcastle I believe) her suspected killer followed her then overtook her if I remember correctly. So if just that moment was caught on cctv it might have looked as though she was following him deliberately when she wasn't.

I wonder if Karen did knowingly leave the club 'with' AP at all, because if she did, why would she have walked behind him? Unless he asked her to? But I can't imagine why anyone would go anywhere with anyone who asked them to walk behind them so it appeared they were not together if caught on the club cctv. It makes no sense. That would set everyone's alarm bells ringing.
 
zwiebel said:
In the Hannah Graham case (she was a student in Virginia, originally from Newcastle I believe) her suspected killer followed her then overtook her if I remember correctly. So if just that moment was caught on cctv it might have looked as though she was following him deliberately when she wasn't.

I wonder if Karen did knowingly leave the club 'with' AP at all, because if she did, why would she have walked behind him? Unless he asked her to? But I can't imagine why anyone would go anywhere with anyone who asked them to walk behind them so it appeared they were not together if caught on the club cctv. It makes no sense. That would set everyone's alarm bells ringing.
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This case reminds me of the Jill Meagher case in so many ways, a young Irish woman on a night out with friends goes missing handbag turns up a day or two later and then the body turns up miles away in a rural setting a few days after that.

Yeah it doesn't make sense, the walking behind him makes it also sound like the Meagher case when Bayley ran passed Jill then came back and pestered her. Karen was a nurse and a caring person he could of duped her into feeling sorry for him with some sob story about his coma and crash etc
 
zwiebel said:
In the Hannah Graham case (she was a student in Virginia, originally from Newcastle I believe) her suspected killer followed her then overtook her if I remember correctly. So if just that moment was caught on cctv it might have looked as though she was following him deliberately when she wasn't.

I wonder if Karen did knowingly leave the club 'with' AP at all, because if she did, why would she have walked behind him? Unless he asked her to? But I can't imagine why anyone would go anywhere with anyone who asked them to walk behind them so it appeared they were not together if caught on the club cctv. It makes no sense. That would set everyone's alarm bells ringing.
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The walking behind and catching up with him would make sense if drugs were involved and she wanted to buy some but that doesn't really make sense given what happened afterwards.

Maybe they had some kind of conversation in the club, they had an argument, Karen followed him out to continue the fight, hence wanting to catch him up, fully planning to go back to her friends and he flipped and attacked her. The difference in their heights and builds would have made it very easy for him to have bundled her up and put her in his car.
 
zwiebel said:
Thanks for all the updates everyone. I just had a horrible journey across Germany where people are allowed to drive very fast and it doesn't always work out. :(

I'm very surprised AP wasn't charged with rape or sexual assault. Given he admitted having sex with Karen and she ended up murdered, I would have thought prosecutors have a good case? I thought that was the whole point of them releasing that information but now I can't see why on earth they gave a voice to a man they obviously suspected of killing poor Karen. I don't believe a single word he says about her I'm afraid.

The only reason I can think of that they didn't release cctv outside of the club was because they already knew it was AP on the video and didn't want to weaken the evidence of potential witnesses. I get the distinct impression some people and the police suspected him almost from the get go myself. Poor, poor Karen and her mum and dad. And her brothers. They'll be beside themselves they didn't get the chance to protect her.

I hope Scotland's prosecutors really step up for her - that's all that anyone can do for Karen now.
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TBH I don't see much point to a charge of rape or SA, nothing could ever be proved in the absence of film of whatever happened, even if they could prove that sexual intercourse had happened they couldn't get any further than that.

They must be pretty sure of the evidence for a murder charge so I can see why they haven't got with anything in addition to that
 
Irishguy said:
Looking at the pictures of the flats where AP lived it seems that a lot of apartments seem to be in close proximity with a lot of windows. Just find it hard to believe he could kill her and move the body here with out anyone hearing or seeing anything. I am still inclined to believe she was killed somewhere else.
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If AP moved Karen in the early hours of Sunday, high possibility there would not be anyone looking out of their windows.

Having said that, I dont think she was ever at his flat and was killed elsewhere
 
zwiebel said:
In the Hannah Graham case (she was a student in Virginia, originally from Newcastle I believe) her suspected killer followed her then overtook her if I remember correctly. So if just that moment was caught on cctv it might have looked as though she was following him deliberately when she wasn't.

I wonder if Karen did knowingly leave the club 'with' AP at all, because if she did, why would she have walked behind him? Unless he asked her to? But I can't imagine why anyone would go anywhere with anyone who asked them to walk behind them so it appeared they were not together if caught on the club cctv. It makes no sense. That would set everyone's alarm bells ringing.
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I thought it was reported that AP and Karen were chatting together outside the Club ? after which, AP walked off and Karen followed.
To me that would say he had offered her something and asked her to follow him to his car, but not to walk with him ? so that it was not obvious that they were going to get something
 
Alyce said:
If AP moved Karen in the early hours of Sunday, high possibility there would not be anyone looking out of their windows.

Having said that, I dont think she was ever at his flat and was killed elsewhere
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I think so as well, good possibility poor Karen was dead by the time her friends raised the alarm. I think AP came on to her she refused and he flipped. Just hope it was swift and she wasn't held against her will for hours.
 
suzyjackson said:
TBH I don't see much point to a charge of rape or SA, nothing could ever be proved in the absence of film of whatever happened, even if they could prove that sexual intercourse had happened they couldn't get any further than that.

They must be pretty sure of the evidence for a murder charge so I can see why they haven't got with anything in addition to that
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I respect your opinion but if he raped Karen then he should be prosecuted for it. In the worlds end murder trial below the suspects were convicted of beating, rape and murder of two women aged 17. That case was prosecuted without the attack being on film.

"ANGUS Sinclair was today convicted of raping and murdering the World’s End victims 37 years ago – and received a 37-year jail sentence.

The jury at the High Court in Livingston took just over two hours to return a guilty verdict against the 69-year-old for the murder of Helen Scott and Christine Eadie, both 17.

Sinclair showed no emotion either at his conviction or his sentencing.

Judge Lord Matthews told Sinclair he was "a dangerous predator who is capable of sinking to the depths of depravity".

The historic verdict marks the first conviction under double jeopardy laws allowing an accused cleared of a crime to be put on trial again if new evidence comes to light."

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/worlds-end-murder-trial-angus-4629346
 
Irishguy said:
Looking at the pictures of the flats where AP lived it seems that a lot of apartments seem to be in close proximity with a lot of windows. Just find it hard to believe he could kill her and move the body here with out anyone hearing or seeing anything. I am still inclined to believe she was killed somewhere else.
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These kind of flats have double glazing and are quite sturdy with thick walls so it could be possible nobody heard anything. I think he must have moved her to his car late on sunday night/monday morning via the back door of his flat. It is a residential area and there would not be many people about late on a sunday night.


zwiebel said:
I'm very surprised AP wasn't charged with rape or sexual assault. Given he admitted having sex with Karen and she ended up murdered, I would have thought prosecutors have a good case? I thought that was the whole point of them releasing that information but now I can't see why on earth they gave a voice to a man they obviously suspected of killing poor Karen. I don't believe a single word he says about her I'm afraid.
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Right now there is no clear evidence (that we know of that) that she was sexually assaulted. I believe she was but police have to press charges with what they have evidence for and there is plenty of evidence for them to believe he killed her. It can muddle things if the prosecution throw in some charges that can't be proved for definite. It might never be known exactly what happened but just being convicted of murder would suffice.

I think they released that he admitted having consensual sex with her to the media to freak AP out, same as their appeal for witnesses about the car on monday.

zwiebel said:
I hope Scotland's prosecutors really step up for her - that's all that anyone can do for Karen now.
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Oh they will I have every confidence in them. There have been a few cases where they've even been able to get a guilty conviction without a body.
 
What he did on the farm and what he did between the early hours of Sunday morning Monday afternoon disturb me, why was he driving so erratically around where the body was found on Monday afternoon. Did he bring Karen here early Sunday morning or did he keep her somewhere and bring her to the farm Monday from somewhere else when he got nervous over the intensity of the Police operations around Glasgow. I just hope it was swift and fast and she didn't suffer.
 
Ironside said:
These kind of flats have double glazing and are quite sturdy with thick walls so it could be possible nobody heard anything. I think he must have moved her to his car late on sunday night/monday morning via the back door of his flat. It is a residential area and there would not be many people about late on a sunday night.



Right now there is no clear evidence (that we know of that) that she was sexually assaulted. I believe she was but police have to press charges with what they have evidence for and there is plenty of evidence for them to believe he killed her. It can muddle things if the prosecution throw in some charges that can't be proved for definite. It might never be known exactly what happened but just being convicted of murder would suffice.

I think they released that he admitted having consensual sex with her to the media to freak AP out, same as their appeal for witnesses about the car on monday.


Oh they will I have every confidence in them. There have been a few cases where they've even been able to get a guilty conviction without a body.
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I respect your opinion but I don't see how the Police releasing his statement that he had consensual sex with her would freak him out.
 
Irishguy said:
What he did on the farm and what he did between the early hours of Sunday morning Monday afternoon disturb me, why was he driving so erratically around where the body was found on Monday afternoon.
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I don't think he was driving erratically, the police said they were concerned by the cars activity i.e. being there. The police knew, probably by phone records, that he was in the area so said they were concerned about a silver car to let AP know they were on to him.

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/local-news/karen-buckley-missing-police-appeal-5522483
 
This is just a thought.. I've been thinking hard what would have caused this lovely girl to accompany him outside the club... Going by the rumours that he had been speaking to her on a few occasions before.

Is it likely that from the few times he met/spoke to her and that he had the knowledge that she was a nurse that he played on that fact and perhaps lured her to the car by pretending to have a sick friend/family member in the car or at his flat a few moments away? That's the only reason I can see for her to leave the club without telling her friends as she would have thought she would be back very soon? Nurses, Doctors etc tend to act spontaneously because of their nature of work and caring personality?

Of course JMO and nobody can rule anything out. Her drink being spiked is also possible. She could have been feeling sorry for him, whatever story he fed her but also it seems likely that her friends could see him differently...

Just a thought.. Poor poor girl...
 
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