GUILTY UK - Karen Buckley, 24, Glasgow, Scotland, 12 April 2015 - #1

[Irishguy]

Does he have his arm around her?

His arm seems to be behind them maybe slightly pushing her forward ushering her in a certain way.

 

[CoverMeCagney]

His arm seems to be behind them maybe slightly pushing her forward ushering her in a certain way.

Unless he's got a gun (or knife) to her back she could have tried to get away. The police did say initially that she left willingly, they know more then we do. Unless of course that was under the same vein of the "AP is not a suspect" game. I just don't see a girl getting abducted here.

 

[Irishguy]

Unless he's got a gun (or knife) to her back she could have tried to get away. The police did say initially that she left willingly, they know more then we do. Unless of course that was under the same vein of the "AP is not a suspect" game. I just don't see a girl getting abducted here.

Maybe not but I think he used Karens caring side to get her outside, then once at the car things turned nasty. Lots of rumours swirling round online about CCTV on another premises capturing something nasty.

 

[CoverMeCagney]

Maybe not but I think he used Karens caring side to get her outside, then once at the car things turned nasty. Lots of rumours swirling round online about CCTV on another premises capturing something nasty.

Yeah I read something about that (on here, I think), any idea what the something nasty is?

 

[Irishguy]

I think a lot of people can't understand Karen leaving with such an unattractive man, I still think he played the lonely innocent guy act who's life was destroyed by coma crash etc I know this is just opinion but after years of bar and security work ive seen how sleazy guys like this reel women in they appeal to their caring side.

 

[Irishguy]

Loads of speculation especially on social media from Irish young people it's all speculation the only people who know are the officers in the investigation.

 

[Irishguy]

Also who did AP go to the club with, was he alone? A 21 year old going to a club alone and parking his car up the road strikes me as a bit odd.

 

[Deep12]

Here is something about my own experience from being spiked.
Because of the way she is on cctv still pictures(I can't get it to play yet) , it is really hard to tell whether she has been spiked or what, but

I have been spiked twice....once in Glasgow on a visit and once in Aberdeen......and both times I was like a Puppy , as in follow anyone who said .....
'come with me ,you will be fine , come with me' ... in fact you could have said anything to me and it would have sounded ok...I would have followed , so I can see how it looks on cctv pics for Karen.......in that she does not look to be under duress or abducted forcefully...

The time in Glasgow I ended up in a police suicide cell in MaryHill police station...I was not coherent and the police thought I was just drunk or mentally ill!!!....I was hysterical...then blacked out, initially found near the inner city motorway....I was spiked at around 6pm in a bar.

Aberdeen, I was with a friend who luckily took me back to my hotel(thinking I was unwell)....this was also early evening...
I did not recognise my friend at all when the drug first took effect...but to my friend it seemed like I was behaving normally at first, even though I felt like I was in a bubble..just the weirdest feeling....and I just went along with her like a Puppy.....until I collapsed and again blacked out.

The Glasgow experience I was lucky , in the fact that it happened in daylight and some caring passerby's waved down the police......although I was booted out the police station the next morning ,left to make my own way back to the train station...walk through MaryHill....with a horrible , horrible dreaded hangover fear of "WTF" happened to me?? I'm glad I had been somewhere safe.

But what I am saying is that Karen could look like she was going along with this guy , it may have looked 'not under duresss' but she may have been trying to keep her head together........which is one of the Toughest ever things to try to do while being under the influence of being spiked...........B******'s

After drinking 2 drinks....then bam! all to easy to happen...I know a few Girls that this has happened to.....there are some sick people out there that want to take advantage....

 

[blefuscu]

The vigil in Glasgow was sad tonight. So many people honoured Karen's life. I think the city of Glasgow is appalled at how a visitor has been so brutally killed. Karen should have been safe, she shouldn't have been hurt by this man. He had no right to harm her. I feel so so sad for her mam, dad and brothers. Rest in peace Karen x

 

[ninij9]

Here is something about my own experience from being spiked.
Because of the way she is on cctv still pictures(I can't get it to play yet) , it is really hard to tell whether she has been spiked or what, but

I have been spiked twice....once in Glasgow on a visit and once in Aberdeen......and both times I was like a Puppy , as in follow anyone who said .....
'come with me ,you will be fine , come with me' ... in fact you could have said anything to me and it would have sounded ok...I would have followed , so I can see how it looks on cctv pics for Karen.......in that she does not look to be under duress or abducted forcefully...

The time in Glasgow I ended up in a police suicide cell in MaryHill police station...I was not coherent and the police thought I was just drunk or mentally ill!!!....I was hysterical...then blacked out, initially found near the inner city motorway....I was spiked at around 6pm in a bar.

Aberdeen, I was with a friend who luckily took me back to my hotel(thinking I was unwell)....this was also early evening...
I did not recognise my friend at all when the drug first took effect...but to my friend it seemed like I was behaving normally at first, even though I felt like I was in a bubble..just the weirdest feeling....and I just went along with her like a Puppy.....until I collapsed and again blacked out.

The Glasgow experience I was lucky , in the fact that it happened in daylight and some caring passerby's waved down the police......although I was booted out the police station the next morning ,left to make my own way back to the train station...walk through MaryHill....with a horrible , horrible dreaded hangover fear of "WTF" happened to me?? I'm glad I had been somewhere safe.

But what I am saying is that Karen could look like she was going along with this guy , it may have looked 'not under duresss' but she may have been trying to keep her head together........which is one of the Toughest ever things to try to do while being under the influence of being spiked...........B******'s

After drinking 2 drinks....then bam! all to easy to happen...I know a few Girls that this has happened to.....there are some sick people out there that want to take advantage....

Sorry you had such terrifying experiences. What is wrong with these people that spike women's drinks? Your situation sounds EXACTLY as I imagine Hannah Grahams (the college student from Virginia) plight. I always suspected she had her drink dosed, accounting for her unusual behavior that night. Now I can see that in this case as well. Cannot someone invent "lids" for drinks in bars? Such a simple, lifesaving idea.

 

[cluciano63]

As far as her drink being tampered with...hoping an autopsy will show if she was given a drug. But I am tending to doubt it, as I think women are getting more cautious with their drinks...and she is not showing signs of staggering, slowness, etc. that I can see. Her friends would know if she set her drink down at any time. We may have to accept that she did go with him, for whatever reason, but as I said before, certainly not to be abused and killed. Maybe he said he had cigarettes in his car...maybe she liked the odd smoke when out partying. Could be anything like that.

Am hoping this guy will make a full confession. But since the death penalty is not an option, there may be no incentive for him to do so. I do wonder if he gave info as to where she could be found or if that came from GPS/phone, etc...

All jmo...obviously.

 

[Deep12]

Thanks ninij9...
It was absolutely terrifying and makes you so paranoid when going out to bars and clubs ....I keep my drink with me at all times...which is difficult to do if you smoke, as you are not allowed to take your drink outside with you in a lot of places.
I think there are some 'Spiked Drug Detector Kits' already, strips and some kind of lip gloss and I think nail varnish.....if you put your nail with the polish on into your drink , it will change colour if it contains drugs.

And yes that is what I thought of when i read about Hannah Graham.

It's just a shame that we have to have a checklist of things to make you safer before you go out for a night out with friends......going out by yourself is not really an option nowadays ...just so sad that all these beautiful soul's have to pay an ultimate price for just having a wee night out.....

 

[blefuscu]

The more I've learned about Karen the less I think she was involved with drugs at all. She came from a small, close knit community in Ireland, she had travelled, but she was a trained nurse and was doing a post graduate degree to be an occupational therapist. She had close friends who were also from Ireland as her flat mates and social friends, they weren't huge drinkers it seems. I just don't see her being into drugs. Not with a career in nursing and a masters that she could lose if she was ever caught. There has been speculation in the MSM that AP had known of her from previous visits to the club. I wonder if this gave her a false sense of security? But I didn't like that still photo of the CCTV, she seemed to look very defensive. Head down, arms crossed. I dunno. She just doesn't strike me as the type to go wandering off without telling her friends, intentionally, especially as they were concerned about where she was only 15 minutes after they had last seen her. That doesn't fit any kind of pattern that she would just normally disappear on nights out. Something smells off with what AP said.

 

[Elainera]

I haven't posted on this thread yet, just reading. What a sad story

She was a beautiful, lovely girl, didn't deserve this. Rest in Peace Karen!


AP sure has something dark and sinister about him. Scary looking guy.

My guess is that this was a rape and subsequent murder and body disposal. He told police they had consensual sex because he knew they'd find his dna inside of her, and made up the story that she left by herself at 4am. I wonder how they cracked him, or what they found that implicated him and warranted the arrest.


My deepest condolences to Karen's family and friends and everyone who knew and loved her.

 

[Elainera]

Is his Left hand holding her arm maybe? Leading her along.

That's what I felt too! Like he's leading her, coaxing her.

 

[Elainera]

Thank you for the link! It's not allowing me to watch it on
my iPad or iPhone! On what method were yous able to view it ?

I'm able to view it on a PC.

It looks to me that police found something incriminating in AP's flat (blood?) and then got him to admit what happened. Because they seemed to focus pretty quickly on key areas - the park where her handbag was found, the road outside the city center where her remains were found, and the river where the knife was found. He probably drove around to get rid of her body and her things that night.

 

[gregjrichards]

The vigil in Glasgow was sad tonight. So many people honoured Karen's life. I think the city of Glasgow is appalled at how a visitor has been so brutally killed. Karen should have been safe, she shouldn't have been hurt by this man. He had no right to harm her. I feel so so sad for her mam, dad and brothers. Rest in peace Karen x

Thanks for this I have read comments online tonight claiming the people at the vigil and laying flowers are stupid idiots showing grotesque faux grief and it has made me very angry. As a human being I feel what has happened to Karen, a young lady who had a long bright future ahead of her, is a tragedy and very sad. I'm pleased people here in Glasgow and beyond have rallied round the family to show their support as they do with every tragedy.

 

[gregjrichards]

Yeah I read something about that (on here, I think), any idea what the something nasty is?

I think he might have had a struggle with Karen possibly knocked her out and forced her into the car. It may take a while for all the autopsy test results to come back so we won't know if Karen was drugged or not for some time.

 

[gregjrichards]

The more I've learned about Karen the less I think she was involved with drugs at all. She came from a small, close knit community in Ireland, she had travelled, but she was a trained nurse and was doing a post graduate degree to be an occupational therapist. She had close friends who were also from Ireland as her flat mates and social friends, they weren't huge drinkers it seems. I just don't see her being into drugs. Not with a career in nursing and a masters that she could lose if she was ever caught. There has been speculation in the MSM that AP had known of her from previous visits to the club. I wonder if this gave her a false sense of security? But I didn't like that still photo of the CCTV, she seemed to look very defensive. Head down, arms crossed. I dunno. She just doesn't strike me as the type to go wandering off without telling her friends, intentionally, especially as they were concerned about where she was only 15 minutes after they had last seen her. That doesn't fit any kind of pattern that she would just normally disappear on nights out. Something smells off with what AP said.

No I don't think Karen willingly took drugs from him either. She seems to have been a smart sensible young woman with a responsible career. I'm sure she encountered drug addicts through her work and knows first hand how dangerous they can be.

 

[Alyce]

Right now there is no clear evidence (that we know of that) that she was sexually assaulted. I believe she was but police have to press charges with what they have evidence for and there is plenty of evidence for them to believe he killed her. It can muddle things if the prosecution throw in some charges that can't be proved for definite. It might never be known exactly what happened but just being convicted of murder would suffice.

I think they released that he admitted having consensual sex with her to the media to freak AP out, same as their appeal for witnesses about the car on monday.


Oh they will I have every confidence in them. There have been a few cases where they've even been able to get a guilty conviction without a body.

I think the police did this to play along with AP. On Monday ( after they found him ! ) and Tuesday and Wednesday, he was voluntarily helping with enquiries, so this may have kept him on side, if he thought the police were believing his lies.
Likewise, I am not certain about this, but if he was only voluntarily helping them, then surely he had to give permission for them to take his car away for searching. So again, if the police pretended to believe his story about going back to his flat and the consensual sex, then AP would have been cooperative about handing over his car - meaning the police could search it at an early stage....because I presume, if he was only helping voluntarily, then he was able to go home at night......and could presumably have done an even more thorough clean on his car at that time.