GUILTY UK - Katie Rough, 7, killed by teen, Woodthorpe, York, 10 Jan 2017

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Rosegold68 said:
There's a balloon release tomorrow for what would have been Katie's 8th birthday. Heartbreaking

Archbishop of York has spent some time with the family. Hope it brought them at least a glimmer of comfort
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it is truly heartbreaking, not how this girls birthday should have been spent. Hopefully they will be able to put her to rest soon.
 
That link has already been posted, and it's best not to quote the extract from Facebook. We are all capable of working it out.
 
mrazda71 said:
Personally - I'm not even attempting to guess on what happened, how it happened, why it happened ... sometimes when you follow a case, it turns out to be a completely different story to any bandied around here.

I do think it's somewhat unusual for the 'perp' to stick around ... and to be 'in a distressed state' especially in a pre planned attack - escape and evasion is usually part of the plan.
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rsbm

Right. If this was planned it would be highly unusual to stick around. OTOH, if this was not planned but happened during an argument or an outburst of pent up anger, wouldn't you ('you' as in, everyone here) think that denial would be the usual first reaction after such a horrific act, rather than seeking help, calling 999, etc?

I still have my doubts that she acted alone.
 
Elainera said:
rsbm

Right. If this was planned it would be highly unusual to stick around. OTOH, if this was not planned but happened during an argument or an outburst of pent up anger, wouldn't you ('you' as in, everyone here) think that denial would be the usual first reaction after such a horrific act, rather than seeking help, calling 999, etc?

I still have my doubts that she acted alone.
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As far as I can tell from the links on here, she didn't stay where she was after she attacked Katie. The 15yo walked away and was either found by the couple and taken in or she called the police. I remember her stating in the 999 call that she didn't know where she was and they located her using mobile tracking. When the police arrived she gave them the location of where Katie was. But the 15yo was quite distressed when she was found by the couple/ police. It difficult to tell if it was pre-planned. Maybe partially planned because it doesn't make sense why she would have just been carrying around a stanley knife. Unless as others stated she self harmed. But then why was Katie reported missing? That means the 15yo must have led Katie away in some way without notifying the parents. It was also within those 32 minutes where she was alone with her (guessing from the police calls and what Katie's mother said) that the attack took place. Which is quite quickly for something to go so wrong. Something just doesn't feel right with this. There's just too much not fitting to say she didn't plan this. Of course this is all just MHO and could be utterly wrong.
 
Elainera said:
Right. If this was planned it would be highly unusual to stick around. OTOH, if this was not planned but happened during an argument or an outburst of pent up anger, wouldn't you ('you' as in, everyone here) think that denial would be the usual first reaction after such a horrific act, rather than seeking help, calling 999, etc?

I still have my doubts that she acted alone.
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No, not if someone is injured and needs immediate help. Denial could come later.

The suggestion that someone else might be involved is interesting. The police have asked for any witnesses who saw the girls, so someone may have seen if there was anyone else with them.
 
Still no word if security cams caught them together or with someone else at any time around Katie's death ; or before ?
 
LietKynes said:
Still no word if security cams caught them together or with someone else at any time around Katie's death ; or before ?
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Nothing like that will be made public any time soon, if ever.
 
I very much doubt that anyone else was involved. I'm sure that if there had been anyone else, that police would've arrested them or made an appeal by now.
 
Until you actually kill someone you can't possibly imagine what it must feel like. We see murder in films etc but the reality of feeling a knife in contact with someone etc must be horrific. It could have been planned and she carried it out but the trauma of actually doing it may have left her in shock.

I don't think there is anyone else involved at all. For whatever reason, the older girl harboured intense anguish which was aimed at Katy. It may be that Katy was the target because of jealousy or that the younger child took or broke something precious or threatened to tell on her for something. Or it could be much deeper and the anguish was at adults and Katy was killed to hurt them.

It's a truly horrible murder because the murderer herself, deserves compassion as this does appear to have been done under severe mental anguish.
 
Whippet said:
Until you actually kill someone you can't possibly imagine what it must feel like. We see murder in films etc but the reality of feeling a knife in contact with someone etc must be horrific. It could have been planned and she carried it out but the trauma of actually doing it may have left her in shock.

I don't think there is anyone else involved at all. For whatever reason, the older girl harboured intense anguish which was aimed at Katy. It may be that Katy was the target because of jealousy or that the younger child took or broke something precious or threatened to tell on her for something. Or it could be much deeper and the anguish was at adults and Katy was killed to hurt them.

It's a truly horrible murder because the murderer herself, deserves compassion as this does appear to have been done under severe mental anguish.
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Welcome Whippet, great first post :)

My thoughts exactly ...

Yes I know that at 15, one would 'know right from wrong' but, that's not the case for all 15 year olds. Those with autism, Global development delay, mental health issues such as schizophrenia or a psychosis, or suffering trauma may not think like a 'normal' 15 year old.

I hate seeing things on social media calling for "the same to be done to her" and especially from the people unaware of any family connection.

I realise that I'm probably the exception to the rule but even in the Jamie Bulger case, my heart still broke for the children that those 2 boys could've, should've, might've been had their upbringing been different? alongside being sickened and despising what they'd done.

We can't stop these crimes happening by saying 'so and so is evil' we can only try to work out why these things happen and figure out what could be done differently.
 
As Stanley knives retract, I'm wondering if it was a mistake of some sort. Maybe the girl was trying to scare Katie and it went wrong as the blade wasn't retracted properly

Would explain her anguish and distress

But then at the hearing she was described as 'looking at the ceiling' which makes me think of nonchalance/defiance
 
Rosegold68 said:
As Stanley knives retract, I'm wondering if it was a mistake of some sort. Maybe the girl was trying to scare Katie and it went wrong as the blade wasn't retracted properly

Would explain her anguish and distress

But then at the hearing she was described as 'looking at the ceiling' which makes me think of nonchalance/defiance
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Oh, we can't possibly infer that from a single factual statement.
 
Looking at the ceiling - could be to stop herself from breaking down. We can't really make any inferences really.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Rosegold68 said:
As Stanley knives retract, I'm wondering if it was a mistake of some sort. Maybe the girl was trying to scare Katie and it went wrong as the blade wasn't retracted properly

Would explain her anguish and distress

BUT THEN AT THE HEARING SHE WAS DESCRIBED AS 'LOOKING AT THE CEILING' WHICH MAKES ME THINK OF NONCHALANCE/DEFIANCE
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Re bold - I don't agree, it could be that she was looking at ceiling so as to avoid seeing 'certain' people in the court or even because she may well be medicated, but I'm thinking so as not to see people.

If it were me, I wouldn't be able to look at loved ones because I'd break down.
 
mrazda71 said:
Re bold - I don't agree, it could be that she was looking at ceiling so as to avoid seeing 'certain' people in the court or even because she may well be medicated, but I'm thinking so as not to see people.

If it were me, I wouldn't be able to look at loved ones because I'd break down.
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But she wasn't in court, was she? I think she was in the video room at the facility where she's kept. She would likely only see the judge and court official on her screen.
 
Elainera said:
But she wasn't in court, was she? I think she was in the video room at the facility where she's kept. She would likely only see the judge and court official on her screen.
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think this was on the first day, the day she was present in court.
anyone know if the parents were in court both days? Think one article said they were and another said they weren't
 
nothinonyou said:
think this was on the first day, the day she was present in court.
anyone know if the parents were in court both days? Think one article said they were and another said they weren't
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Don't think parents were there at all (but happy to be corrected) Think it was grandparents? Aunt and Uncle and sister and 1 brother.
 
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