Found Deceased UK - Leah Croucher, 19, Emerson Valley, Milton Keynes, 14 Feb 2019 #2

[tresir2012]

I think he would have had to go through a full trial - would he have been found guilty? If so, he may have faced up to two years in jail. His legal team probably recommended to accept the RO

I don't think so if it was a first offence but voluntary acceptance of an RO would possibly mean no record. Police could have cautioned him or may have already done that and it didn't work. MOO

 

[tresir2012]

Restraining Orders - Section 5, Protection from Harassment Act 1997 | The Crown Prosecution Service

This link covers restraining orders and I think the last bit seems to possibly cover what happened here.

From the "Offering no evidence" section...

"Prosecutors should consider what evidence should be adduced/agreed before a Restraining Order is requested in such circumstances. Evidence generally means sworn testimony, exhibits and agreed facts. It would be sensible to establish before presenting the evidence what is and is not in dispute. The court is not concerned to establish a criminal offence beyond reasonable doubt, just that there is enough evidence on the balance of probabilities to impose an order which is required to protect a victim.

Once the facts are agreed, the prosecutor may offer no evidence provided the defence agree to a Restraining Order and then outline the agreed facts to a court. This view appears to be consistent with the reasoning in R v Robert Smith [2010] EWHC 3593 (Admin)."

 

[Miss_French]

The police said AC is only a witness but the articles quote a statement from the police about AC where they name him, if that makes a difference?

To be fair, we don't know how severe these threats were. Or what may have happened in the past to make AC take the threats seriously. It also looks like Leah's brother is involved in martial arts, so it's not unreasonable that AC may genuinely fear for his own safety. He/police may also feel like there's a racial or religious element to these accusations, going by HC's message that he's a Muslim who "groomed" her.

This could be a way for police to get AC's name out there, but would they go to the extent of (I'm assuming) arresting her brother and making him go to court? That's a lot to put on a family whose daughter is missing.

The police are not going to waste their time, and that of the CPS and all the court staff to publicise a name. Anyway, under PACE, information obtained under deception by the police is inadmissible. They cannot lie to suspects under any circumstances.

 

[Caroclaud]

So wonder why HC started to harass AC from 1st Feb, a full 2 weeks before LC went missing?
Something must have happened?
I suspect lots of stress/ arguments at home for LC, I dont know what her mental health is like, but it’s a lot for a 19 yr old to take on board plus a relationship with a married man.

Why would the police refuse to increase the Reward, makes no sense?

 

[Miss_French]

So wonder why HC started to harass AC from 1st Feb, a full 2 weeks before LC went missing?
Something must have happened?
I suspect lots of stress/ arguments at home for LC, I dont know what her mental health is like, but it’s a lot for a 19 yr old to take on board plus a relationship with a married man.

Why would the police refuse to increase the Reward, makes no sense?

The police don't like large rewards as it brings out too many people claiming to have info and it takes up their resources answering phones, taking statements, investigating etc. Anyway, why should people get a massive reward for doing the right thing, instead of doing it out of decency?

 

[Mayfly]

So wonder why HC started to harass AC from 1st Feb, a full 2 weeks before LC went missing?
Something must have happened?
I suspect lots of stress/ arguments at home for LC, I dont know what her mental health is like, but it’s a lot for a 19 yr old to take on board plus a relationship with a married man.

Why would the police refuse to increase the Reward, makes no sense?

HC may not have contacted AC before February 15th. Quite often the wording of a criminal charge will cover a particular time period rather than a specific date; i.e. "It is alleged that between December 1st and December 31st the defendant, Santa Claus, entered the premises and left several wrapped gifts..."

Hence the time frame in this case adding up to exactly three months: "Police charged Haydon with causing Mr Choudhry to fear that violence would be used against him by making threats and sending threatening and abusive messages between February 1 and April 30."

 

[dotr]

HC may not have contacted AC before February 15th. Quite often the wording of a criminal charge will cover a particular time period rather than a specific date; i.e. "It is alleged that between December 1st and December 31st the defendant, Santa Claus, entered the premises and left several wrapped gifts..."

Hence the time frame in this case adding up to exactly three months: "Police charged Haydon with causing Mr Choudhry to fear that violence would be used against him by making threats and sending threatening and abusive messages between February 1 and April 30."

Rbbm.
Highly entertaining analogy, thanks!

 

[Sillybilly]

Please use initials for anyone other than the victim or an officially named POI/suspect.

There are no officially named POIs or suspects in this case, so do not make accusations or insinuations that an individual is responsible for Leah's disappearance. You may discuss what is said in MSM about them or what they themselves have said in MSM. You may have an opinion on those things (i.e. "what a curious thing to say" or "that doesn't make sense") but you may not make direct accusations (i.e. "IMO, that person knows exactly where she is and is involved"), and you may not sleuth out information on them and post about it here.

Hope that clarifies.

 

[cluciano63]

Maybe the UK is different but I have never seen where a reward solved a case...if anyone knows truly what happened to a missing person, they generally would have to be involved and not eligible...jmo

 

[Miss_French]

Maybe the UK is different but I have never seen where a reward solved a case...if anyone knows truly what happened to a missing person, they generally would have to be involved and not eligible...jmo

Rewards are usually offered for 'information leading to...'. In this case it's information leading to finding Leah. The charity Crimestoppers offer rewards for information that leads to 'one or more people being arrested and charged' and/or is 'of significant use to law enforcement agencies'. However, whilst there have been over 100,000 arrests and charges through this organisation, less than 1% of people eligible for a reward actually claim it.

Someone could report a relative, friend or neighbour with injuries, holding odd hours, damage to their car, has an item that is a 'trophy'; there's lots of things that can be reported by someone who isn't directly involved.

 

[tresir2012]

The police are not going to waste their time, and that of the CPS and all the court staff to publicise a name. Anyway, under PACE, information obtained under deception by the police is inadmissible. They cannot lie to suspects under any circumstances.

The name wasn't obtained by deception but came out by due legal process. I might have misunderstood your post though.

 

[ChinaMK]

Hi Everyone, I’m new here I’m very local to Leah and work in the same Knowlhill estate (although I don’t personally know her)
This case is extremely unusual, especially in MK. Little to no updates are being provided from TVP, which is in contrast to a previous missing person case here a few years ago.
I’m still getting to grips with the rules so apologies if I’m breaking any rules here but I’m not sure if you are aware that AC works in the same company office as Leah.

 

[Miss_French]

The name wasn't obtained by deception but came out by due legal process. I might have misunderstood your post though.

People are suggesting the police put HC through a 'show trial' in order to publicise AC's name in relation to Leah's disappearance. What I meant was that isn't allowed in law as any information relating to Leah obtained by deception by the police is inadmissible in court.

 

[tresir2012]

Hi Everyone, I’m new here I’m very local to Leah and work in the same Knowlhill estate (although I don’t personally know her)
This case is extremely unusual, especially in MK. Little to no updates are being provided from TVP, which is in contrast to a previous missing person case here a few years ago.
I’m still getting to grips with the rules so apologies if I’m breaking any rules here but I’m not sure if you are aware that AC works in the same company office as Leah.

Welcome to WS. I had questioned that when Knowlhill was the area in the RO. Rules can be accessed in page 1 of each thread I think.

Sorry, I just looked and they aren't on here so here is the link:-

The Rules

 

[tresir2012]

People are suggesting the police put HC through a 'show trial' in order to publicise AC's name in relation to Leah's disappearance. What I meant was that isn't allowed in law as any information relating to Leah obtained by deception by the police is inadmissible in court.

Ok. Well we can only opine on that for sure. (Whether TVP have been deceptive or not)

 

[Miss_French]

Ok. Well we can only opine on that for sure. (Whether TVP have been deceptive or not)

But it wouldn't just have been TVP involved, it would have required a lot of other people and for them all to lie.

 

[tresir2012]

But it wouldn't just have been TVP involved, it would have required a lot of other people and for them all to lie.

In what way? Why would AC lie or anyone else? As I said, TVP could have just cautioned HC if they had wanted. Perhaps TVP didn't offer or HC or AC wouldn't accept the caution option so it had to go to court? We don't know the exact details so we cannot say people or TVP lied or not.

 

[cherrytree9]

In what way? Why would AC lie or anyone else? As I said, TVP could have just cautioned HC if they had wanted. Perhaps TVP didn't offer or HC or AC wouldn't accept the caution option so it had to go to court? We don't know the exact details so we cannot say people or TVP lied or not.

They mean the TVP, the court system etc, not AC/HC. It's unreasonable to think that everyone involved has orchestrated this entire thing to get one man's name in the papers. The extra press coverage is probably a useful byproduct, but they can't simply manufacture a reason to get her family member in court so the press talk about something they want out there.

We don't know what happened, but whatever HC said was clearly serious enough to take him to a crown court and give him a restraining order. The judge really took HC's situation into account, so it's possible he would have got an actual punishment in another context.

 

[cluciano63]

Did AC press charges? Or call police? How did LE find out about it all? Hardly seems AC would bring it to police if he is guilty of anything.

 

[Miss_French]

In what way? Why would AC lie or anyone else? As I said, TVP could have just cautioned HC if they had wanted. Perhaps TVP didn't offer or HC or AC wouldn't accept the caution option so it had to go to court? We don't know the exact details so we cannot say people or TVP lied or not.

Cheers @cherrytree9! That was exactly what I would have said in reply to ^^this (but was busy watching the footy).