Found Deceased UK - Leah Croucher, 19, Emerson Valley, Milton Keynes, 14 Feb 2019 #4

[WiseOwl]

I’m just asking questions. I really don’t understand the sarcasm and hostility. A bit odd and definitely a surprise.

Sarcasm and hostility - me? Never!

You asked the question about how Leah's parents knew she got up after they left and followed her exact routine if they weren't there to witness that. I answered your question by pointing out that Leah was seen on CCTV at 8.15 which, even if they hadn't seen her, would suggest she was on her way to work as usual - surely this is logical?

However you replied by saying all it means she was seen then and there on CCTV. So I then replied to you by asking - where do you think she'd been then? What's wrong with that? It would be good to hear any new ideas on Leah's case and as no-one (as far as I know) has questioned whether Leah was at home that night I though it would be a good idea to get a new perspective.

If you have any new ideas or thoughts on where Leah might have been the night before then please let us know, it would be good to discuss.

 

[WiseOwl]

More on the increased reward:

Reward to help find missing Leah Croucher doubled

Interesting to see this comment from DCI Howard:

“Since the second anniversary appeal to locate Leah last month, the force has received 20 reports of new information relating to the investigation, all of which are being assessed in detail and investigated accordingly. However, at this time the force does not have a confirmed sighting of Leah since the day she was reported missing.''

In view of this statement I wonder if DCI Howard still believes Leah left of her own accord and is out there somewhere?

 

[Miss_French]

You're right that WC didn't start with PaDP until February 2020. There's one more thing left to say about WC regarding this however, which is the geographical profile. He has a clear "anchor point" established in Oxfordshire 2011-2018, as this was the headquarters and training centre for the CNC. He would regularly have been there. Profilers consider anchor points to be long-lasting, even after they've stopped being actively used.

We have to be careful not to decide on a suspect that we never rule out even when evidence suggests we should, but it's worth one more like at WC for this, based on this anchor point.

You can see it illustrated in this slide.

Training for what, though? Bisley is closer for firearms...

 

[Officer Dibble]

Ok now the most obvious theories based on crime profiling, and the geography of the area:

- She switched location off on the 14th to meet someone for sex. 75 minutes is 'enough' to meet someone for that and return home. possibly for money, possibly a bf/acquaintance, or sugar-daddy type arrangement;

- If her phone location was being watched by a possible boyfriend, perhaps a suspicious one (rightly or wrongly), and location is unknown until the next morning, he would have likely intercepted her on her known route to work;

- If the above point isn't true, then she's walking to work and is intercepted by a stranger. If this is the case I'd say most likely in the sports/play area around the lake, or the Premier Inn across the lake;

- Out-of-home disappearances are overwhelmingly stranger-related, though not always. Anyone in MK on business staying at the Premier Inn would be checking out approx. 7-9am, and would have either been a stranger or someone LC has loose acquaintance with (again thinking sugar-daddy);

- MK attracts a lot of daily business visitors. 99% of people who stay in hotels near motorway junctions do not live in the area. Connecting the out-of-home disappearance, the girl's profile, this location, and the fact that a hotel would be emptying of people from miles away, suggests an abduction;

- Friend/family murders tend to leak, or bodies (or other evidence) gets found. The absolute vanishing of LC again suggests stranger;

- Play area next to Furzton Sports Ground is particularly shady looking, the kind of place you might go to have sex (possible either for the 14th night or to re-meet/intercept someone on the 15th);

- Whatever theory, I'm certain the A5 and A421 are critical to LC's disappearance;

- If she was spontaneously murdered on her route, there's an obvious area where her body would likely be found, illustrated in the attachment.

Some great thoughts here. Thanks for sharing.

 

[Kitkat28]

I don’t understand why WC has suddenly been introduced as a remotely credible suspect in some posters’ eyes. If one has to go through elaborate contortions to make the (lack of) evidence fit, it probably doesn’t!

———————————

MK citizen have posted a story comparing Leah's disappearance to that of Sarah Everard and in addition to the petition started online to get Leah's case more coverage in national media hopefully things might start moving in the right direction for leah and her family!

"The tragic death of Sarah Everard has sparked a wave of national sympathy and action - but local people here in Milton Keynes cannot help but compare the case to 'our' missing woman, Leah Croucher.

Though the outcome of Leah's case is still unknown and cannot be compared to Sarah Everard, the initial circumstances of the two cases were identical - both were young woman and both went mysteriously missing for no apparent reason."

'Why isn't missing Milton Keynes woman Leah Croucher as familiar a name as Sarah Everard?'

To be fair, it’s hardly just Leah; it’s almost every other missing or murdered woman in the U.K. sadly. Read Jess Phillips MP’s list of 118 names and come back and tell me how many you’ve heard of

 

[HollyHunter9]

To be fair, it’s hardly just Leah; it’s almost every other missing or murdered woman in the U.K. sadly. Read Jess Phillips MP’s list of 118 names and come back and tell me how many you’ve heard of

I agree, it's not just Leah. There are many missing persons cases who do not get the attention they deserve but Leahs case in particular stood out to me because of how their disappearances were almost identical.

• both young women walking alone
• both using their phones within minutes of their disappearance
•both phones switched off/left network so unable to be traced
• both seemingly vanished into thin air
•both spotted on cctv before 'vanishing'

Only difference is Sarah has been found and Leah hasn't.

 

[Jenesaisquoi]

I don’t think anyone is talking about making evidence ‘fit’. It’s about making sure people are ruled out, if need be.

Anything that makes people take a closer look or think about Leah is to be welcomed, imo.

 

[WiseOwl]

I don’t understand why WC has suddenly been introduced as a remotely credible suspect in some posters’ eyes. If one has to go through elaborate contortions to make the (lack of) evidence fit, it probably doesn’t!

———————————



To be fair, it’s hardly just Leah; it’s almost every other missing or murdered woman in the U.K. sadly. Read Jess Phillips MP’s list of 118 names and come back and tell me how many you’ve heard of

I also think that what Holly is trying to point out is that why is it certain cases like Sarah Everard, Claudia Lawrence, Madeline McCann & Suzy Lamplugh get saturation nationwide media coverage when they go missing yet 99% of other missing people cases are consigned to local media and are left to fade away into oblivion? What is it that causes the national media to give preferential coverage to a handful of cases over others?

As Holly has said the disappearance of Leah and Sarah were very similar yet look how the police and media were all over Sarah's case almost from the time she vanished yet Leah's case has been confined mainly to local media with only sporadic mentions on national media from time to time.

 

[sundaaaay]

I also think that what Holly is trying to point out is that why is it certain cases like Sarah Everard, Claudia Lawrence, Madeline McCann & Suzy Lamplugh get saturation nationwide media coverage when they go missing yet 99% of other missing people cases are consigned to local media and are left to fade away into oblivion? What is it that causes the national media to give preferential coverage to a handful of cases over others?

As Holly has said the disappearance of Leah and Sarah were very similar yet look how the police and media were all over Sarah's case almost from the time she vanished yet Leah's case has been confined mainly to local media with only sporadic mentions on national media from time to time.

It’s to do with a number of factors. SE’s case occurred during a period of stagnant Covid news. It’s similar to Meghan & Harry in the news 24/7- people are bored of covid. Every case is different, some make more compelling stories.

 

[HollyHunter9]

How do the parents know she got up after they left and that she followed her exact routine if they weren’t there to witness that?

For all we know she snuck out after 10pm and came back for fresh clothes after they left for work the next day. For all we know.

This an interesting theory AID. Of course there is the possibility that leah had perhaps sneaked out during the night and her parents may not have been aware of this and just assumed she was there in the morning without physically seeing her. I'd be interested to discuss further and hear your thoughts on where she may have gone if this were the case.

 

[Kitkat28]

This an interesting theory AID. Of course there is the possibility that leah had perhaps sneaked out during the night and her parents may not have been aware of this and just assumed she was there in the morning without physically seeing her. I'd be interested to discuss further and hear your thoughts on where she may have gone if this were the case.

It’s interesting how in a lot of cases parents are convinced that their children did this, that or the other and that they know every last thing about their (often adult) childrens’ lives.

I’ve got a 23 & a 21 year old still at home, who I'm close to and get on great with, but I’d never swear to anything if god forbid they suddenly went missing. They have their own lives ultimately, just as they should at their age.

 

[Jenesaisquoi]

Iirc there was still a key in the lock on the inside of the door in the morning when the parents left, so they knew from that she was still at home.

 

[MrsWatson]

We know Leah didn't tell her parents everything. So who did she confide in? Did her parents really know much about her personal life outside the family? I am in no way disparaging Leah or her family, but at her age, my parents knew the bare minimum about what I was getting up to. And we were a close family. I just didn't want them up in my business.

I'm not unconvinced the mysterious, elusive Mr X is not involved, but I do think there is a very good possibility that Leah made have had other romantic partners, who may have also been secret, for whatever reason.

MOO & speculation

 

[ApparentlyInDenial]

Question everything. The last-seen-alive must be established in any disappearance or murder case.

If she lived anywhere but with her parents many more would be naturally questioning the accuracy of the reports about her whereabouts in the last hours.

It is perfectly reasonable to ask for more solid information about her last night, morning, and *why* the family have said something as a fact (that she was at home that morning).

If I see a statement from her family that says they saw her with their eyes that morning I would probably not even ask the question.

The defensiveness (“well where else would she have been”) is fine if you’ve settled on a theory firmly, but it doesn’t do much to push this toward possible new useful theories.

Remember that LC was untruthful in the past about where she spent the night. And where she went the evening of the 14th.

The reason behind this lying may well be connected to why she disappeared, and that’s why I’m probing about who *exactly* saw her last and not her key or her laundry.

 

[Jenesaisquoi]

Maybe the police can confirm from phone/computer records if she was likely in her own home that night? I certainly haven’t got any impression that she wasn’t.

On another thought, when reporters ask questions re an investigation, do they speak to a contact within the investigation team or does it only go through a media team? I am wondering if there is any analysis anywhere of missing people vs police region vs ability of msm to deal directly with investigation team.

 

[Stewlb]

Question everything. The last-seen-alive must be established in any disappearance or murder case.

If she lived anywhere but with her parents many more would be naturally questioning the accuracy of the reports about her whereabouts in the last hours.

It is perfectly reasonable to ask for more solid information about her last night, morning, and *why* the family have said something as a fact (that she was at home that morning).
¹
If I see a statement from her family that says they saw her with their eyes that morning I would probably not even ask the question.

The defensiveness (“well where else would she have been”) is fine if you’ve settled on a theory firmly, but it doesn’t do much to push this toward possible new useful theories.

Remember that LC was untruthful in the past about where she spent the night. And where she went the evening of the 14th.

The reason behind this lying may well be connected to why she disappeared, and that’s why I’m probing about who *exactly* saw her last and not her key or her laundry.

In the very beginning of LC going missing it was very confused as to when she had actully disappeared,
It wasn't clear whether it was on the 14th or the 15th as she hadn't actually been seen by her family members since the early evening on the 14th Feb.
Thats how it was reported at the time.

 

[Stewlb]

If I remember correctly, her half sister saw her leaving for work that morning. We don't know whether that was in person. I suspect it was virtually via Snapchat or something.

Been following fairly closely over the last couple of years; never heard/seen this before.
don't suppose you can remember where you saw this?

I do still think that all of the early information/ statements etc by TVP
& the media have been so blurred and lacking in vital information is why Leah is sadly still missing.
just my own opinion.

 

[PoirotPink]

Gotta ask, why would a young woman switch off her location settings? She must have been aware that someone else was watching her movements (either with agreement - parents/boyfriend, or without).

When I first read about this, I assumed this was probably linked to the "Find My" app on the iPhone (or similar), within which she was perhaps sharing her location with many people. Turning her location off doesn't necessarily mean she was trying to hide her location from the same person on both occasions.

On the prior evening, she could have been hiding her real location from her parents, to whom she had lied.

On the morning of her disappearance, she could have been hiding her location from someone else, for example, a work colleague.

I'm not very familiar with this case, but to my mind the whole "turning her location services off" could be a bit of a red herring. We all think there must be something nefarious about it, but it could just be that she was in the habit of doing this when she wanted some privacy from one or more people.

 

[ApparentlyInDenial]

When I first read about this, I assumed this was probably linked to the "Find My" app on the iPhone (or similar), within which she was perhaps sharing her location with many people. Turning her location off doesn't necessarily mean she was trying to hide her location from the same person on both occasions.

On the prior evening, she could have been hiding her real location from her parents, to whom she had lied.

On the morning of her disappearance, she could have been hiding her location from someone else, for example, a work colleague.

I'm not very familiar with this case, but to my mind the whole "turning her location services off" could be a bit of a red herring. We all think there must be something nefarious about it, but it could just be that she was in the habit of doing this when she wanted some privacy from one or more people.

Yes spot on, except that it shows she was “location-sensitive” if you want to put it that way. As in it mattered to her more than the average person who knew what about her location.

 

[sundaaaay]

I understand the suspicions of foul play but what it always comes back to for me is the witnesses seeing a girl crying on her phone by Furzton lake, between 9.30am-11.15am. If that girl was someone else, why has she not come forward so it can be ruled out it wasn't LC. It's a big coincidence for different witnesses to see a crying girl matching LC's description at the same time & location she disappears.

It's not impossible to imagine the night before LC had attempted suicide but for some reason decided not to go ahead with it but the next day goes ahead with it. She turns off her location settings so she is not visible on any apps (notably Snapmaps feature on Snapchat) and waits until the school/work run is over and the area quietens down. When people pass she pretends to be on the phone so nobody approaches and when the coast is clear she enters the lake and swims far into it (hence the reason she has not been found). She went missing beside a lake then the most likely scenario is she is probably in that lake. The lakes have been searched and she has no been found but this does not mean she is not there. MOO

A motive for a voluntary disappearance is unclear but her interest in older married men has potential implications. Firstly its possible her peers could not relate to the attraction making it difficult to confide in relationship issues, which could explain why her friends don't know why she may have been upset. Her family had previously become aware of a relationship with an engaged/married man and she was warned off by them which makes it unlikely she would have confided in them again. Lastly, if a married/engaged man was romantically involved with LC it's likely he will not speak to police in order to protect his marriage.