Found Deceased UK - Libby Squire, 21, last seen getting into taxi outside Welly club, Hull, 31 Jan 2019 #5 *ARREST*

[JosieJo]

I think you're right and people are over complicating it. My theory is he went to the shop for cigarettes or tobacco. Sees Libby on the bench, potentially talking to the man with the grey hair and beard. Goes back to his car to smoke a cigarette and thinks about what to do. It gets a bit quieter so he walks back to the bench and asks Libby if she wants a lift home. He could potentially even use 'creepy' beard guy as a reason not be be sat around here! He takes her back to the car as seen on CCTV. They drive up to the park and trail goes cold from a CCTV perspective hence the focus on the area. my theory is she end up in the river either pushed or running away from him. Police are then combing the whole of the park looking for any evidence Libby was there or came to harm.
Personally I feel like it's a huge jump from peeping Tom to murderer. I think she's fell into the river trying to run away after realised he wasn't quite what he made out.

Exactly what I feel at the minute

 

[Bond007]

Off topic but how do google maps get away with putting up identifiable people ? That said they fuzz out things like mops

Not sure but my sister in law is visable in pics outside her home and isnt blurred at all!

 

[Griffinlay]

I didn’t mean sinister in that sense, just that so far in all the cctv we’ve seen a silver Astra turns up (not literally). It felt ‘creepy’ to me, sinister may be the wrong word but I can’t find the word I’m looking for. As people have pointed out it’s a popular car so probably unrelated completely but I can’t shake the idea that it might not be. JMO

I’m quite concerned about the Astra situation too. Lots of people on here seem to think this is the key to the case and unfortunately I think they are wrong.

Everyone on this site has the best intentions in finding LS and finding out the truth of what has happened. There are lots of theories to try and understand and explain this but very little evidence to support most of these theories. The police have released little information and I feel they are as perplexed as the rest of us.

We need to look at what we KNOW about the Astra or Astras, as there appears to be more than one.
The first thing we actually know for certain is that PR has a Vauxhall Astra. From the photo of it on the transporter it appears to be silver or very light grey.

The second thing we know for certain is that in the cctv released today of LS outside the Welly a silver Vauxhall Astra drives past the queue of people waiting to get into the club. It does this at normal road speeds and at no time does the driver appear to slow down to look at anyone in the queue. There is no way of knowing if this Astra belongs to PR.

The other potential sightings of a Vauxhall Astra need to be discarded as they are not evidence and they are clouding people’s thoughts and leading to theories being made that are not supported by actual evidence.

The car in the cobweb cctv may or may not be a Vauxhall Astra. It has not been confirmed as such by anyone as far as I am aware. I do agree it is similar in size and the colour could be silver or light grey. I do not believe it is PR car and after comparing it to the Astra on the transporter I can definitely see the wheels are a different design. To my mind this car is a red herring and people need to discard it from their thoughts and concentrate on other evidence.
If the police believed this car was PR car they would have made much more of it.

I think to understand why this car has become such a focal point to all of us trying to make sense of what has happened to LS we need to take a step back and consider how the police came to suspect PR of possible involvement in her disappearance. I say possible as we do not know categorically that he is involved at all but all our wild theories are leading us into this line of thought.

This is my understanding of it.
The police are trawling through hours and hours of cctv trying to work out where LS went and how she got there. During this time I would imagine several vehicles kept cropping up as being in the area for a long period or acting suspiciously in some way. Most drivers would just be going about there normal business like going to or from work or a restaurant or cinema. But I dare say a few caused the police to make a few extra enquiries. Maybe they saw some known offenders vehicles or maybe known drug dealers or disqualified drivers. Maybe the ANPR flagged up some cars without insurance or tax. Maybe that’s how they hit on PR.
What I think happened then is that they did a PNC check on PR registration number and saw he was local ran other checks such as criminal records check. Maybe they come back with something maybe not.
To satisfy their curiosity they put his name in social media and hey presto there is his photo. Maybe one of the police doing the donkey work puts 2 and 2 together and thinks this looks like the flasher in the EFIT. And he lives bang in the middle of all the burglaries and flashing.
The police can’t believe their luck. This must be the guy let’s go and arrest him. So they take him in and take his prints and DNA and they get a match for some sex toy burglaries and some flashing in the area local to LS address but he says it’s not him but they hold him for 4 days hoping to find some evidence he is involved with LS disappearance but they don’t.

That is the only reason a Vauxhall Astra is relevant to this case and there is absolutely no evidence to connect PR to LS other than he owns an Astra.

There is no evidence connecting LS with a Vauxhall Astra.

I think the police have put everything into trying to find evidence that fits their theory instead of letting the evidence lead them to LS.
For the record I can see why the police went down this route and I can understand why many of us on here want it to be him but after 12 days I’m starting to wonder if the police haven’t put all their eggs in the wrong basket.
I truly hope they and some of you prove me wrong.

 

[Hatfield]

With all the CCTV available and technology today I wish in cases like this that LE could release all the videos to a crowd sharing site and let the public help LE by viewing through all the footage to find whatever they are looking for.

I am willing to bet the public could find all the movements of a suspect's vehicle much faster than LE is able to do in these cases. They always say how they had to pour over 100's of hours of video footage and how it takes a lot of time. And no telling how much they miss.

Well release it to the masses and I am willing to bet the public could point them to all the matches in less than 24 hours or two days at most, where it probably takes 1 or 2 LE officers over a week or more to do that and then they probably miss things the public would not miss. Maybe someday this will be used by LE.

All videos taking of public areas are in the public domain as far as legality. Including google map images where they happen to catch people on the street during google mapping. Ive even seen a google truck go by a street once. It had a camera on a tripod on the roof and big google markings on the side of the car. I ducked into a store before it came by me to make sure I would not appear on a google map. LOL

 

[SFH19]

Does anyone else think whoever is seen getting into car on cobweb CCTV doesn't look to have bare legs?

 

[Hatfield]

Off topic but how do google maps get away with putting up identifiable people ? That said they fuzz out things like mops

I maybe wrong, but my understanding is if you are in the public domain like a street or outside anywhere then you are free to be filmed by anyone. Think how actors get filmed by TMZ all the time and they dont like it but its legal.

Google does sometimes purposely blur out things but not always. So there must be some editing being done at times.

Filming, picture taking, and videos is only a problem with secret hidden cameras inside of locations or if someone is trying to film up peoples skirts without them knowing or things like that.

ETA-The term "reasonable expectation of privacy" plays a big part in the legality. You either have that reasonable expectation of privacy or you dont. Being out on a street anywhere then you really dont have that. Or you shouldnt expect it anyway. Something like that

 

[Chester]

Not sure but my sister in law is visable in pics outside her home and isnt blurred at all!

They are meant to but sometimes their automatic software doesn't pick people up. They rely on these errors being reported.

 

[Chester]

With all the CCTV available and technology today I wish in cases like this that LE could release all the videos to a crowd sharing site and let the public help LE by viewing through all the footage to find whatever they are looking for.

I am willing to bet the public could find all the movements of a suspect's vehicle much faster than LE is able to do in these cases. They always say how they had to pour over 100's of hours of video footage and how it takes a lot of time. And no telling how much they miss.

Well release it to the masses and I am willing to bet the public could point them to all the matches in less than 24 hours or two days at most, where it probably takes 1 or 2 LE officers over a week or more to do that and then they probably miss things the public would not miss. Maybe someday this will be used by LE.

All videos taking of public areas are in the public domain as far as legality. Including google map images where they happen to catch people on the street during google mapping. Ive even seen a google truck go by a street once. It had a camera on a tripod on the roof and big google markings on the side of the car. I ducked into a store before it came by me to make sure I would not appear on a google map. LOL

This would be a privacy and human rights nightmare to sort out.

 

[Deleted member 238128]

Does anyone else think whoever is seen getting into car on cobweb CCTV doesn't look to have bare legs?

At times I have thought they are wearing kneeboots. To be honest, I see something different every couple of times I watch that footage. It’s just so unclear and open to interpretation, anything is possible, even that it might not be a person at all.

 

[aworldofmadness]

This would be a privacy and human rights nightmare to sort out.

Yup. Probably will have an AI doing cctv searches before long.

 

[JosieJo]

I’m quite concerned about the Astra situation too. Lots of people on here seem to think this is the key to the case and unfortunately I think they are wrong.

Everyone on this site has the best intentions in finding LS and finding out the truth of what has happened. There are lots of theories to try and understand and explain this but very little evidence to support most of these theories. The police have released little information and I feel they are as perplexed as the rest of us.

We need to look at what we KNOW about the Astra or Astras, as there appears to be more than one.
The first thing we actually know for certain is that PR has a Vauxhall Astra. From the photo of it on the transporter it appears to be silver or very light grey.

The second thing we know for certain is that in the cctv released today of LS outside the Welly a silver Vauxhall Astra drives past the queue of people waiting to get into the club. It does this at normal road speeds and at no time does the driver appear to slow down to look at anyone in the queue. There is no way of knowing if this Astra belongs to PR.

The other potential sightings of a Vauxhall Astra need to be discarded as they are not evidence and they are clouding people’s thoughts and leading to theories being made that are not supported by actual evidence.

The car in the cobweb cctv may or may not be a Vauxhall Astra. It has not been confirmed as such by anyone as far as I am aware. I do agree it is similar in size and the colour could be silver or light grey. I do not believe it is PR car and after comparing it to the Astra on the transporter I can definitely see the wheels are a different design. To my mind this car is a red herring and people need to discard it from their thoughts and concentrate on other evidence.
If the police believed this car was PR car they would have made much more of it.

I think to understand why this car has become such a focal point to all of us trying to make sense of what has happened to LS we need to take a step back and consider how the police came to suspect PR of possible involvement in her disappearance. I say possible as we do not know categorically that he is involved at all but all our wild theories are leading us into this line of thought.

This is my understanding of it.
The police are trawling through hours and hours of cctv trying to work out where LS went and how she got there. During this time I would imagine several vehicles kept cropping up as being in the area for a long period or acting suspiciously in some way. Most drivers would just be going about there normal business like going to or from work or a restaurant or cinema. But I dare say a few caused the police to make a few extra enquiries. Maybe they saw some known offenders vehicles or maybe known drug dealers or disqualified drivers. Maybe the ANPR flagged up some cars without insurance or tax. Maybe that’s how they hit on PR.
What I think happened then is that they did a PNC check on PR registration number and saw he was local ran other checks such as criminal records check. Maybe they come back with something maybe not.
To satisfy their curiosity they put his name in social media and hey presto there is his photo. Maybe one of the police doing the donkey work puts 2 and 2 together and thinks this looks like the flasher in the EFIT. And he lives bang in the middle of all the burglaries and flashing.
The police can’t believe their luck. This must be the guy let’s go and arrest him. So they take him in and take his prints and DNA and they get a match for some sex toy burglaries and some flashing in the area local to LS address but he says it’s not him but they hold him for 4 days hoping to find some evidence he is involved with LS disappearance but they don’t.

That is the only reason a Vauxhall Astra is relevant to this case and there is absolutely no evidence to connect PR to LS other than he owns an Astra.

There is no evidence connecting LS with a Vauxhall Astra.

I think the police have put everything into trying to find evidence that fits their theory instead of letting the evidence lead them to LS.
For the record I can see why the police went down this route and I can understand why many of us on here want it to be him but after 12 days I’m starting to wonder if the police haven’t put all their eggs in the wrong basket.
I truly hope they and some of you prove me wrong.

Would they not need a certain amount of evidence to make an arrest and keep him so long for questioning

 

[JosieJo]

Does anyone else think whoever is seen getting into car on cobweb CCTV doesn't look to have bare legs?

Legs do look dark but could be just shadows

 

[Coach]

Hope this link works. I have just been looking online at the CCTV in Hull. Assuming that it is him in the car in the grainy CCTV, if he left Haworth St and turned left onto Cottingham Rd he would have passed through the main junction which has CCTV - this is the junction of the A1079(Beverly Rd) and the A1165(Clough Rd). This is so close to the Oak Road Park and if he did drive to the park, the only CCTV on the way to there is at this main junction. It is also the same direction as her house - he could have got her in the car by appearing to be helpful and friendly (even opening the door for her) and instead of turning into her road, he could have gone right to the park. My Hull

 

[Griffinlay]

Would they not need a certain amount of evidence to make an arrest and keep him so long for questioning

They could have taken his photo to show to some of the flasher witnesses. If they said that’s him he’s nicked.

 

[Sera]

Slightly O/T but I've done so much googling because of this case that I now keep being shown advertisements on every page I visit for renting student houses on Heathcote Street. Lol.

 

[Ryuk]

Well, sadly depends what you mean by 'experience' in crime.
....

tldr: Hull has had this kind of thing coming for a couple of years...

Completely agree about losing faith in Humberside police.
I was conned out of an I phonex last year.

Between Action Fraud and Humberside Police they've done nothing despite me handing them the guys name, address, a picture of me with him, and a picture of his passport.

 

[SFH19]

Deleted

 

[MancGuy Uk]

Does anyone else think whoever is seen getting into car on cobweb CCTV doesn't look to have bare legs?

I really .. really would like to know if that betfred across the road on Beverley has cctv??

 

[Griffinlay]

Would they not need a certain amount of evidence to make an arrest and keep him so long for questioning

And because he was saying it was not him they could hold him trying to prove it was. No magistrate in the land was going to release him while LS was still missing.

 

[Jchuz]

New poster here- I’ve been following this case with interest, partly because I grew up in the area and know it fairly well- I used to regularly eat takeaways on the bench where she was last seen, and have spent many a night in Welly and the Haworth pub. This was several years ago, so some things may be subtly different in the area now.

Anyway- I have a few thoughts about some of the information that’s been released, if it’s of any interest:

-It has been widely reported that she got in a taxi at Welly at 11 and arrived at her house at 11.29pm. It would take a maximum of 10 minutes to do this drive at that time. I assume that she waited for a taxi for 15-20 minutes, but that’s not clear.

-I had never heard of Oak Road playing fields, and was surprised at how big it is, looking at the map. However, my worry is that there are a couple of rivers in close proximity- the Barmston drain and the river Hull. Still, there must be some evidence that is pointing to Oak Road playing fields

- The CCTV from the Sun shows the vehicle driving south down Newland Ave (towards PRs house) Assuming this was driven from Haworth St, this is in the complete opposite direction of Oak Road. With just this evidence, one would probably rule out Oak Road from the investigation. There are lots of parks and woods around, so there must be some strong evidence that we don’t know about that points to Oak Road.

- Leaving Haworth Street, it is all main roads. You would think that there would be some CCTV covering all possible routes, and therefore this seems like a crazy disappearing act, if she got into a car on Haworth Street.

- If she went back to Beresford Avenue, the roads are more residential. Therefore, I’d expect less CCTV, and there’s a very large area including lots of houses and the playing fields. I therefore lean towards her walking back down Beresford towards her house and something unsavoury happening then. This would make it more obvious to search the playing fields, unless there’s some smoking gun evidence that we don’t know about. I feel that the CCTV on Haworth Street might be a red herring, even though it’s so close to the bench.