Found Deceased UK - Libby Squire, 21, last seen getting into taxi outside Welly club, Hull, 31 Jan 2019 #5 *ARREST*

[Deufin]

I’m quite concerned about the Astra situation too. Lots of people on here seem to think this is the key to the case and unfortunately I think they are wrong.

Everyone on this site has the best intentions in finding LS and finding out the truth of what has happened. There are lots of theories to try and understand and explain this but very little evidence to support most of these theories. The police have released little information and I feel they are as perplexed as the rest of us.

We need to look at what we KNOW about the Astra or Astras, as there appears to be more than one.
The first thing we actually know for certain is that PR has a Vauxhall Astra. From the photo of it on the transporter it appears to be silver or very light grey.

The second thing we know for certain is that in the cctv released today of LS outside the Welly a silver Vauxhall Astra drives past the queue of people waiting to get into the club. It does this at normal road speeds and at no time does the driver appear to slow down to look at anyone in the queue. There is no way of knowing if this Astra belongs to PR.

The other potential sightings of a Vauxhall Astra need to be discarded as they are not evidence and they are clouding people’s thoughts and leading to theories being made that are not supported by actual evidence.

The car in the cobweb cctv may or may not be a Vauxhall Astra. It has not been confirmed as such by anyone as far as I am aware. I do agree it is similar in size and the colour could be silver or light grey. I do not believe it is PR car and after comparing it to the Astra on the transporter I can definitely see the wheels are a different design. To my mind this car is a red herring and people need to discard it from their thoughts and concentrate on other evidence.
If the police believed this car was PR car they would have made much more of it.

I think to understand why this car has become such a focal point to all of us trying to make sense of what has happened to LS we need to take a step back and consider how the police came to suspect PR of possible involvement in her disappearance. I say possible as we do not know categorically that he is involved at all but all our wild theories are leading us into this line of thought.

This is my understanding of it.
The police are trawling through hours and hours of cctv trying to work out where LS went and how she got there. During this time I would imagine several vehicles kept cropping up as being in the area for a long period or acting suspiciously in some way. Most drivers would just be going about there normal business like going to or from work or a restaurant or cinema. But I dare say a few caused the police to make a few extra enquiries. Maybe they saw some known offenders vehicles or maybe known drug dealers or disqualified drivers. Maybe the ANPR flagged up some cars without insurance or tax. Maybe that’s how they hit on PR.
What I think happened then is that they did a PNC check on PR registration number and saw he was local ran other checks such as criminal records check. Maybe they come back with something maybe not.
To satisfy their curiosity they put his name in social media and hey presto there is his photo. Maybe one of the police doing the donkey work puts 2 and 2 together and thinks this looks like the flasher in the EFIT. And he lives bang in the middle of all the burglaries and flashing.
The police can’t believe their luck. This must be the guy let’s go and arrest him. So they take him in and take his prints and DNA and they get a match for some sex toy burglaries and some flashing in the area local to LS address but he says it’s not him but they hold him for 4 days hoping to find some evidence he is involved with LS disappearance but they don’t.

That is the only reason a Vauxhall Astra is relevant to this case and there is absolutely no evidence to connect PR to LS other than he owns an Astra.

There is no evidence connecting LS with a Vauxhall Astra.

I think the police have put everything into trying to find evidence that fits their theory instead of letting the evidence lead them to LS.
For the record I can see why the police went down this route and I can understand why many of us on here want it to be him but after 12 days I’m starting to wonder if the police haven’t put all their eggs in the wrong basket.
I truly hope they and some of you prove me wrong.

Or, far simpler, they got his registration from the CCTV near the last sighting of Libby.

I know which theory i’d put money on

 

[Coach]

I really .. really would like to know if that betfred across the road on Beverley has cctv??

I have just posted a link a few posts ago which will take you right to the Hull website which shows where all the CCTV cameras are.

 

[CoverMeCagney]

Off topic but how do google maps get away with putting up identifiable people ? That said they fuzz out things like mops

They blur out house numbers too which is most unhelpful to us sleuthers.

I think they're meant to blur out faces but I've seen a few that would be identifiable. Google doesn't put a caption on saying "looks like a known pervert dontcha think", so we probably shouldn't either.

Sorry if I sound snarky, seems you have grumpy Cags tonight, been a long week and I've just realised it's only bloody Tuesday.

 

[SFH19]

I've not been sure ..sometimes see boots ..sometimes I see below knee track pants

Sorry, I meant on passenger side!

Absolutely baffled as to what the driver is wearing though! I do feel like driver seems to be bare legs as can see definition of knees I think?!

 

[JosieJo]

They could have taken his photo to show to some of the flasher witnesses. If they said that’s him he’s nicked.

I meant for abduction

 

[Coach]

Link for map showing all CCTV
My Hull

 

[Griffinlay]

Or, far simpler, they got his registration from the CCTV near the last sighting of Libby.

I know which theory i’d put money on

Which is what I said. They checked cars in the area using ANPR.

 

[TheTruthWillOut]

Yup. Probably will have an AI doing cctv searches before long.

They have that capability now. Pick a person or car (for example) on the footage and the software will track and highlight it all automatically across a multiple camera system (like a council's city centre system).

Learn't about this during the Corrie McKeague case.

 

[Joolz1975]

I’m quite concerned about the Astra situation too. Lots of people on here seem to think this is the key to the case and unfortunately I think they are wrong.

Everyone on this site has the best intentions in finding LS and finding out the truth of what has happened. There are lots of theories to try and understand and explain this but very little evidence to support most of these theories. The police have released little information and I feel they are as perplexed as the rest of us.

We need to look at what we KNOW about the Astra or Astras, as there appears to be more than one.
The first thing we actually know for certain is that PR has a Vauxhall Astra. From the photo of it on the transporter it appears to be silver or very light grey.

The second thing we know for certain is that in the cctv released today of LS outside the Welly a silver Vauxhall Astra drives past the queue of people waiting to get into the club. It does this at normal road speeds and at no time does the driver appear to slow down to look at anyone in the queue. There is no way of knowing if this Astra belongs to PR.

The other potential sightings of a Vauxhall Astra need to be discarded as they are not evidence and they are clouding people’s thoughts and leading to theories being made that are not supported by actual evidence.

The car in the cobweb cctv may or may not be a Vauxhall Astra. It has not been confirmed as such by anyone as far as I am aware. I do agree it is similar in size and the colour could be silver or light grey. I do not believe it is PR car and after comparing it to the Astra on the transporter I can definitely see the wheels are a different design. To my mind this car is a red herring and people need to discard it from their thoughts and concentrate on other evidence.
If the police believed this car was PR car they would have made much more of it.

I think to understand why this car has become such a focal point to all of us trying to make sense of what has happened to LS we need to take a step back and consider how the police came to suspect PR of possible involvement in her disappearance. I say possible as we do not know categorically that he is involved at all but all our wild theories are leading us into this line of thought.

This is my understanding of it.
The police are trawling through hours and hours of cctv trying to work out where LS went and how she got there. During this time I would imagine several vehicles kept cropping up as being in the area for a long period or acting suspiciously in some way. Most drivers would just be going about there normal business like going to or from work or a restaurant or cinema. But I dare say a few caused the police to make a few extra enquiries. Maybe they saw some known offenders vehicles or maybe known drug dealers or disqualified drivers. Maybe the ANPR flagged up some cars without insurance or tax. Maybe that’s how they hit on PR.
What I think happened then is that they did a PNC check on PR registration number and saw he was local ran other checks such as criminal records check. Maybe they come back with something maybe not.
To satisfy their curiosity they put his name in social media and hey presto there is his photo. Maybe one of the police doing the donkey work puts 2 and 2 together and thinks this looks like the flasher in the EFIT. And he lives bang in the middle of all the burglaries and flashing.
The police can’t believe their luck. This must be the guy let’s go and arrest him. So they take him in and take his prints and DNA and they get a match for some sex toy burglaries and some flashing in the area local to LS address but he says it’s not him but they hold him for 4 days hoping to find some evidence he is involved with LS disappearance but they don’t.

That is the only reason a Vauxhall Astra is relevant to this case and there is absolutely no evidence to connect PR to LS other than he owns an Astra.

There is no evidence connecting LS with a Vauxhall Astra.

I think the police have put everything into trying to find evidence that fits their theory instead of letting the evidence lead them to LS.
For the record I can see why the police went down this route and I can understand why many of us on here want it to be him but after 12 days I’m starting to wonder if the police haven’t put all their eggs in the wrong basket.
I truly hope they and some of you prove me wrong.

All speculation we don't know what evidence they have on PR...They have towed his Astra away and will have been through it with a very fine tooth comb.

We do not know how near the charge threshold they were for abduction charges to be put against him...he is still a person of interest in LS dissapearence.

I'd put more away on it been his car on cctv on Howarth st personally as it was suspicious behaviour.

A car driving past a nightclub at normal speed is not suspicious even though it's possibly same colour and make.

 

[PeachUK]

I’m quite concerned about the Astra situation too. Lots of people on here seem to think this is the key to the case and unfortunately I think they are wrong.

Everyone on this site has the best intentions in finding LS and finding out the truth of what has happened. There are lots of theories to try and understand and explain this but very little evidence to support most of these theories. The police have released little information and I feel they are as perplexed as the rest of us.

We need to look at what we KNOW about the Astra or Astras, as there appears to be more than one.
The first thing we actually know for certain is that PR has a Vauxhall Astra. From the photo of it on the transporter it appears to be silver or very light grey.

The second thing we know for certain is that in the cctv released today of LS outside the Welly a silver Vauxhall Astra drives past the queue of people waiting to get into the club. It does this at normal road speeds and at no time does the driver appear to slow down to look at anyone in the queue. There is no way of knowing if this Astra belongs to PR.

The other potential sightings of a Vauxhall Astra need to be discarded as they are not evidence and they are clouding people’s thoughts and leading to theories being made that are not supported by actual evidence.

The car in the cobweb cctv may or may not be a Vauxhall Astra. It has not been confirmed as such by anyone as far as I am aware. I do agree it is similar in size and the colour could be silver or light grey. I do not believe it is PR car and after comparing it to the Astra on the transporter I can definitely see the wheels are a different design. To my mind this car is a red herring and people need to discard it from their thoughts and concentrate on other evidence.
If the police believed this car was PR car they would have made much more of it.

I think to understand why this car has become such a focal point to all of us trying to make sense of what has happened to LS we need to take a step back and consider how the police came to suspect PR of possible involvement in her disappearance. I say possible as we do not know categorically that he is involved at all but all our wild theories are leading us into this line of thought.

This is my understanding of it.
The police are trawling through hours and hours of cctv trying to work out where LS went and how she got there. During this time I would imagine several vehicles kept cropping up as being in the area for a long period or acting suspiciously in some way. Most drivers would just be going about there normal business like going to or from work or a restaurant or cinema. But I dare say a few caused the police to make a few extra enquiries. Maybe they saw some known offenders vehicles or maybe known drug dealers or disqualified drivers. Maybe the ANPR flagged up some cars without insurance or tax. Maybe that’s how they hit on PR.
What I think happened then is that they did a PNC check on PR registration number and saw he was local ran other checks such as criminal records check. Maybe they come back with something maybe not.
To satisfy their curiosity they put his name in social media and hey presto there is his photo. Maybe one of the police doing the donkey work puts 2 and 2 together and thinks this looks like the flasher in the EFIT. And he lives bang in the middle of all the burglaries and flashing.
The police can’t believe their luck. This must be the guy let’s go and arrest him. So they take him in and take his prints and DNA and they get a match for some sex toy burglaries and some flashing in the area local to LS address but he says it’s not him but they hold him for 4 days hoping to find some evidence he is involved with LS disappearance but they don’t.

That is the only reason a Vauxhall Astra is relevant to this case and there is absolutely no evidence to connect PR to LS other than he owns an Astra.

There is no evidence connecting LS with a Vauxhall Astra.

I think the police have put everything into trying to find evidence that fits their theory instead of letting the evidence lead them to LS.
For the record I can see why the police went down this route and I can understand why many of us on here want it to be him but after 12 days I’m starting to wonder if the police haven’t put all their eggs in the wrong basket.
I truly hope they and some of you prove me wrong.

I’m feeling the same and wondering if the police are trying to blame “the local nutter/oddball/flasher” for this high profile case, same as what happened with Barry George being fitted up (and subsequently cleared) of Jill Dando’s murder

 

[Joolz1975]

With all the CCTV available and technology today I wish in cases like this that LE could release all the videos to a crowd sharing site and let the public help LE by viewing through all the footage to find whatever they are looking for.

I am willing to bet the public could find all the movements of a suspect's vehicle much faster than LE is able to do in these cases. They always say how they had to pour over 100's of hours of video footage and how it takes a lot of time. And no telling how much they miss.

Well release it to the masses and I am willing to bet the public could point them to all the matches in less than 24 hours or two days at most, where it probably takes 1 or 2 LE officers over a week or more to do that and then they probably miss things the public would not miss. Maybe someday this will be used by LE.

All videos taking of public areas are in the public domain as far as legality. Including google map images where they happen to catch people on the street during google mapping. Ive even seen a google truck go by a street once. It had a camera on a tripod on the roof and big google markings on the side of the car. I ducked into a store before it came by me to make sure I would not appear on a google map. LOL

Not sure how letting the public view cctv would stand up in court.

The public should not be privvy to all footage anyway we don't need to be...to be blunt it's none of our business.

Also it's a gross invasion of people's privacy (morally if not legally) to have that footage out there for anyone to see.

 

[Griffinlay]

I meant for abduction

They were able to ask him anything once he was under arrest. They arrested him on suspicion of abduction but at the time had no evidence of that. It was the flashing that alerted them. They obviously had no evidence of connection with disappearance as they don’t appear to have any now as he is remanded on the other charges not on anything connected with LS.

 

[suzyjackson]

I’m feeling the same and wondering if the police are trying to blame “the local nutter/oddball/flasher” for this high profile case, same as what happened with Barry George being fitted up (and subsequently cleared) of Jill Dando’s murder

It is wasn't for CCTV this could be the case but even the small bit the public have seen strongly suggests that the police do have some basis for suspecting PR, it's just a shame it wasn't more widespread in 1999

 

[Joolz1975]

They could have taken his photo to show to some of the flasher witnesses. If they said that’s him he’s nicked.

I could be wrong here but they were holding him on abduction charges...They had to have a certain amount of evidence on the relevant charges to keep him in custody all that time.

 

[Scorpiette]

The Daily mail are quoting PR's mother saying there is a £2000 bail, but she can't afford it. Bail? Is that correct?

 

[Griffinlay]

All speculation we don't know what evidence they have on PR...They have towed his Astra away and will have been through it with a very fine tooth comb.

We do not know how near the charge threshold they were for abduction charges to be put against him...he is still a person of interest in LS dissapearence.

I'd put more away on it been his car on cctv on Howarth st personally as it was suspicious behaviour.

A car driving past a nightclub at normal speed is not suspicious even though it's possibly same colour and make.

This is the point I was trying to make. You can put as much sway on the cobweb car as you like but it’s not evidence.
If there was any actual evidence that LS had been in his Astra and due to the fact she is still missing he would have been charged with abduction. They would have months before the trial to find LS to complete the puzzle.

 

[Coach]

If he turned left at the end of Haworth St he would have passed through the main junction which is the only CCTV between Haworth St and Oak Rd Park. Her house is also in the same direction as the park. If they have him on CCTV going through the junction, they will have got his reg number from it and quite possibly have seen that he had a passenger in the front seat. Link for map of CCTV cameras My Hull

 

[CoverMeCagney]

I could be wrong here but they were holding him on abduction charges...They had to have a certain amount of evidence on the relevant charges to keep him in custody all that time.

Yes, good point. How DID they keep getting extensions? They're generally only granted for really serious crimes like murder, not sure that any of his current charges would qualify.

 

[Chester]

New poster here- I’ve been following this case with interest, partly because I grew up in the area and know it fairly well- I used to regularly eat takeaways on the bench where she was last seen, and have spent many a night in Welly and the Haworth pub. This was several years ago, so some things may be subtly different in the area now.

Anyway- I have a few thoughts about some of the information that’s been released, if it’s of any interest:

-It has been widely reported that she got in a taxi at Welly at 11 and arrived at her house at 11.29pm. It would take a maximum of 10 minutes to do this drive at that time. I assume that she waited for a taxi for 15-20 minutes, but that’s not clear.

-I had never heard of Oak Road playing fields, and was surprised at how big it is, looking at the map. However, my worry is that there are a couple of rivers in close proximity- the Barmston drain and the river Hull. Still, there must be some evidence that is pointing to Oak Road playing fields

- The CCTV from the Sun shows the vehicle driving south down Newland Ave (towards PRs house) Assuming this was driven from Haworth St, this is in the complete opposite direction of Oak Road. With just this evidence, one would probably rule out Oak Road from the investigation. There are lots of parks and woods around, so there must be some strong evidence that we don’t know about that points to Oak Road.

- Leaving Haworth Street, it is all main roads. You would think that there would be some CCTV covering all possible routes, and therefore this seems like a crazy disappearing act, if she got into a car on Haworth Street.

- If she went back to Beresford Avenue, the roads are more residential. Therefore, I’d expect less CCTV, and there’s a very large area including lots of houses and the playing fields. I therefore lean towards her walking back down Beresford towards her house and something unsavoury happening then. This would make it more obvious to search the playing fields, unless there’s some smoking gun evidence that we don’t know about. I feel that the CCTV on Haworth Street might be a red herring, even though it’s so close to the bench.

The timeline has been clarified.

The initial information shared with the public was that Libby was refused entry at around 11pm. That was wrong by nearly 20 minutes. She then waited for approximately 5 minutes for a cab to arrive to take her home. This ties up with the time of arrival of 11:29pm.

Mystery solved.

 

[Joolz1975]

They were able to ask him anything once he was under arrest. They arrested him on suspicion of abduction but at the time had no evidence of that. It was the flashing that alerted them. They obviously had no evidence of connection with disappearance as they don’t appear to have any now as he is remanded on the other charges not on anything connected with LS.

No way would they have been able to hold him for over 90 hours unless they had some evidence to put to him on the charges he was arrested for (abduction).

A magistrate extended the time they could keep him in custody on Saturday night by 24 hours still on the abduction charges.

They must have had suspicion of abduction to arrest him on those charges in the first place.