Found Deceased UK - Libby Squire, 21, last seen outside Welly club, Hull, 31 Jan 2019 #14 *ARREST*

[TheCasual]

This was discussed on a previous thread. Why is it a nightclub's responsibility when people arrive drunk from elsewhere and why should they incur the costs?

I just think if society put people over profits we'd all be a lot safer.

I know Atik in Hull make around £20k on a Saturday night. I'm sure it wouldn't bankrupt them to do what I suggested.

 

[HopeForGoodNews]

Date of death, on her death certificate, will be the date she was found.
Either way, the day she was found will still fall on mother’s day potentially.

This happened with my relative who was found to have died. The PM revealed how much time had passed between death and being found (so we could work out the actual date) but the date on the death certificate went down as the date of the PM. Due to legalities this could be changed but would take around 6 weeks therefore there would be a long wait for the funeral.

The family will know the actual date of death as I think realistically we all do. Either way, both dates will be difficult for them along with all special dates and birthdays they can't share as a full family.

 

[jacksmamma]

To sort of jump off of your remark, forgive me if this is a stupid question, but it was supposedly very icy and yet we see a bike going back and forth at a rapid clip without incident on ice? I am from the US and do see a very occasional bike in winter but when streets are somewhat clear as are sidewalks... And very, very few, generally someone without a vehicle most likely...

Depends on the tarmac/pavement surface beneath. Bike tyres would have better traction peddled over surface, whether icy or not, and surer than trainers that were definitely shown to be on ice.

 

[Newthoughts]

When she approached the friend in the Welly CCTV. I’m not getting bad vibes.
In her position I’d be annoyed with myself but likely insist her friends had a good night, see you later. Kind of thing.

I think I would too. She was hugging her friend. Licensed taxis are about as safe as you can get.

 

[Lyndaloo]

I've seen different things every time I've watched it, especially when playing with the speeds.

I do see a definite slump but only slightly.

The interesting thing for me when watching slowed down it looks like whoever is the passenger seat is holding a mobile phone, as the car pulls away!

But I've put it down to it been some odd reflection.

When I watched the Welly cctv it looked to me as if she could have been on a phone, I realise this has been discussed & most people agree it’s just a flick of her hair.

 

[jacksmamma]

I just think if society put people over profits we'd all be a lot safer.

I know Atik in Hull make around £20k on a Saturday night. I'm sure it wouldn't bankrupt them to do what I suggested.

I didn't see what you suggested but I've considered the possibility of a 'creche' where anyone refused entry could be looked after, fed, watered and then released to friends at tipping out time.

 

[HopeForGoodNews]

The club didn't shut until really late but by 1.12 Libby's friends were posting that she was missing. She got home at 11.30. They'd have given her time to call them. I'd guess they'd start calling her then. From times when I've panicked because people haven't called to say they're home safe I keep calling in case they're in the loo or something for about 30 minutes.

Then they'd have to have got themselves home and probably spent time looking for her before posting. So I think they were worrying about her very early on and seeing her not being there or phoning them as very out of character.

I suspect she decided to head to the campus to use other friends phones. Sadly I suspect Haworth is a well used short cut.

It's possible that they weren't able to get a taxi straight away when she wasn't answering her phone so we cannot say that they waited a long time before going home. They were probably in a complete panic thinking the worst that she had collapsed etc.

 

[Skigh]

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[jacksmamma]

There is an intiative where if you are vulnerable you can get a taxi. What I have drilled in to my teenage daughter is no one gets left alone. It was a mistake her friends made, but one I really stand by as do all my now adult friends. If you go home alone you must text as soon as you are inside- I’ve had random nights as we all have where I have gone home alone, but if I don’t text within a certain amount of time (regardless of how drunk i am), I get phone calls and texts (and have even had random people turnup), my husband gets phoned, my friends get texted. I also have friends who take people home and then go back out. Sadly this didn’t happen that night, but it has been one thing I learnt many years ago after a friend was knocked over and killed walking home alone (pure accident). Things happen, but when alcohol is involved- leave no one behind. Hindsight is wonderful and I can’t even begin to empathise with her friends that night who must be devestated. It’s a truly awful tragic thing, but there are many awful people out there and we need to protect ourselves and our friends.

Riddled with blame.
And laws for nightclubs? Get real.

 

[TheCasual]

I didn't see what you suggested but I've considered the possibility of a 'creche' where anyone refused entry could be looked after, fed, watered and then released to friends at tipping out time.

Basically what you've suggested.

We have Street Angels in Hull, but only in the City centre.

There's still Newland and Princess Ave, Spiders and Welly in other areas of the City.

 

[jacksmamma]

If it helps, I see it twice in the Welly cctv. I don't think I can watch it back at the moment though.

 

[jacksmamma]

I remember discussing i didnt think she looked drunk, when i watched it yesterday i thought she clearly did. (I feel bad saying that given the discussion tonight and i know it doesnt/shouldnt really make a difference). I know there was a light frost but she was picking her feet up in the exaggerated fashion a drunk person often does and stumbled into the barriers around her, in contrast to the movement of others. Again this isnt meant to be offensive, apologies if anyone finds it that way, merely an observation.

I think there was an added element of her trying walk on slippery ground in clunky trainers, having had some drink - not necessarily too much.

 

[Miss_French]

I didn't see what you suggested but I've considered the possibility of a 'creche' where anyone refused entry could be looked after, fed, watered and then released to friends at tipping out time.

So if someone is refused entry for being an aggressive drunk, they take that person in and put them with other drunk people?

Plus it means a whole set of separate facilities; they have to find somewhere in the premises where they can have seperate toilets to keep people away from the main club, and suitable fire exits, and sufficient space for however many people get turned away? What if it's a small place and they get full?

 

[Lyndaloo]

It’s really not, and my daughters friend who is at uni there (we are an hour down the road), had one briefing after Libby disappeared. Which is shocking!

Ditto the University. Students tend not to read local news so wouldn't have seen things like the cartoon efit. They should have been warned.

I think when the full details start to come out the police will be in for some criticism (rightly or wrongly) ive seen posts on SM (relating to the other charges) already filled with criticism.

I found these figures on streetfind on 14th March & had posted them on a sm page within an hour or so of doing so the figures seems to have changed....99 crimes of a violent/sexual nature & 44 of antisocial behaviour ( which I’m sure a good few of PRs crimes come under )within 1 mile of Libby’s home in January seem very excessive to me....definitely would have been well worth a warning to females travelling alone. My opinion is possibly someone from Humberside Police was monitoring the thread & had the figures altered to avoid criticism. Another very disturbing aspect is the amount of these crimes they have been “unable to prosecute “

 

[jacksmamma]

So if someone is refused entry for being an aggressive drunk, they take that person in and put them with other drunk people?

Plus it means a whole set of separate facilities; they have to find somewhere in the premises where they can have seperate toilets to keep people away from the main club, and suitable fire exits, and sufficient space for however many people get turned away? What if it's a small place and they get full?

Hadn't really thought it through regarding aggressive people. Was just trying to keep vulnerable people safe. My naive

 

[Miss_French]

I just think if society put people over profits we'd all be a lot safer.

I know Atik in Hull make around £20k on a Saturday night. I'm sure it wouldn't bankrupt them to do what I suggested.

And why should the club spend it's profits on people who have been drinking in other places that have made a profit? Some go out with the intention of getting drunk.

There have been enough stories of people coming to a bad end on a night out, whether 3rd party involvement or not, that common sense says you look after each other when out socialising. However, it's always the same; no matter how times these situations occur, or warnings go out, there are still those that think nothing will happen. The military are subject to rules that say someone stays sober and personnel look after each other when out socialising. However, RAF Honington has had an airmen go missing and one hit and killed by a car on a night out, because they ignored procedure and weren't looked after by their 'friends'.

 

[CoverMeCagney]

In Leeds we have Street Angels who patrol the city centre helping anyone who is in trouble

Street Angels Leeds

In other towns and cities they have a 'booze bus" to treat anyone who needs medical attention or a safe place to wait for a lift home

Mobile booze buses could be coming to a town centre near you

I do not think a bar or club can be held responsible for drunk revellers, though of course they should exercise caution when turning away vulnerable people. In Libby's case her mates had the matter in hand, they put her in a safe taxi and no doubt told her to text when she got home. When she didn't they'll have tried to call her, got no answer, and headed home to check up on her.

What a nightmarish and life-changing night they ended up having, so young to have experienced such tragedy. They, and the taxi driver, and the boy neighbours, and Greybeard, will forever wonder what they could have done differently to change the outcome. We can't blame any of them, though. The only person to blame is the one who hurt Libby, everyone else is suffering enough.

 

[Plod]

Discussing different theories here is what makes this such a great forum.
We all are different personalities with different life experiences and so often we think how we would feel and what we would do in similar circumstances.
Putting my self in the same situation as
Libby and being put in a taxi home on my own when my friends were still out having fun would have pissed me off. I would not have thought I was drunk.

I’ve just imagined my student self again and what I’d have done drunk and worse for wear, and (supposedly) locked out on a freezing night, with hours before my friends returned. I’d have started walking somewhere - not sure where exactly and why - and perhaps this is what Libby did too. Maybe back to campus where I could camp on someone’s floor.

Just thinking this made me think that the university must have had a late night facility for students to go to if they needed something. Maybe she was heading back towards campus and just couldn’t make it.

 

[Lyndaloo]

In Leeds we have Street Angels who patrol the city centre helping anyone who is in trouble

Street Angels Leeds

In other towns and cities they have a 'booze bus" to treat anyone who needs medical attention or a safe place to wait for a lift home

Mobile booze buses could be coming to a town centre near you

I do not think a bar or club can be held responsible for drunk revellers, though of course they should exercise caution when turning away vulnerable people. In Libby's case her mates had the matter in hand, they put her in a safe taxi and no doubt told her to text when she got home. When she didn't they'll have tried to call her, got no answer, and headed home to check up on her.

What a nightmarish and life-changing night they ended up having, so young to have experienced such tragedy. They, and the taxi driver, and the boy neighbours, and Greybeard, will forever wonder what they could have done differently to change the outcome. We can't blame any of them, though. The only person to blame is the one who hurt Libby, everyone else is suffering enough.

I think if would be great if the street angels & booze bus could be rolled out nationwide....perhaps with local government funding & volunteers

 

[CoverMeCagney]

And to add to that, considering the lads over the road knew who Libby was and where she lived, there's a good chance that when they got to Welly they told Libby's housemates what they'd seen. That is possibly what prompted her friends to go looking for her.