UK - Libby Squire, 21, last seen outside Welly club, Hull, 31 Jan 2019 #21

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Laws of physics and a time delay in brain processing speed (impaired by alcohol)- the momentum after you mistep, usually means you continue going for a step or so after before your body can actually stop/register what’s happened. That’s why when you mistep dramatically you often continue to fall to the floor afterwards. By this point the reeds are higher than your point of view so you are almost surrounded and your brain will struggle to decide what is the best course of action, very easy to end up further in the water. Not so easy to get the body of an above average height female past a metre of reeds. I’m intrigued as lots of you feel adamant he put her body in the water and as someone pointed out that the one wet knee is proof he did that when he returned for the third time- how do you all believe he managed to get the body out into the open water?
You'd have to be more specific with which law of physics. But I'd say she'd struggle to step past reeds past her head.

It is easy to place a body in water and push it out into currents.

The police searched an area with steps. But you'd still have to consciously get yourself in there.
 
@mrazda71 - you have got me thinking more (although I still don’t believe one wet knee would be all that got wet) here’s some photos of the edge of the river. The reeds on these photos all seem to be on the other bank by the yeast factory. Potentially I still think LS could have accidentally run into the river- but here’s some photos which may help support your theory
 

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You'd have to be more specific with which law of physics. But I'd say she'd struggle to step past reeds past her head.

It is easy to place a body in water and push it out into currents.

The police searched an area with steps. But you'd still have to consciously get yourself in there.
Not if she didn’t have rigor mortis set in and even during the second visit it wouldn’t have occurred. You would need some sturdy length of plank to push what would be a dead weight out without it sinking down. Wasted my childhood and now my own kids do it- pushing things out with branches on lakes and rivers and whatever else they can find, it’s really not easy. I did also state which law of physics in my post.
 
There are earlier photos where he looks very young and quite skinny, then more recent photos where he looks more tubby, less fit. His wedding photos he is starting to look more rotund, perhaps a man who is comfortable in a relationship and started to "let himself go" a bit. Busier in life, less free time to go to the gym and caring less about his appearance. I know non of this fits with his "secret" life but that is how I see it from the outside. He looks less fit, more fat (than he was previously). He told police he had started to run for fitness recently, we can never say whether he had or hadn't, we know certainly that night it was a cover for his other activities but given he said it in interview I would presume it had at least crossed his mind, maybe he wanted to lose some of the timber he had gained.


I've lived in Hull all my life, my grandad was in the merchant navy, I have a good understanding of the tidal nature and currents within the Hull/Humber, the fact they are silt filled and treacherous to navigate, the Hull in particular virtually impossible to do so during low tide periods. I wouldn't have a clue when the next high/low tide was due without searching Google. I don't see any reason why PR would be familiar with the times.
Just as a further point though, the next high/low tides for various places are reported each evening on the local news as part of the weather forecast, but again would he watch or pay attention to local news? Who knows, I don't think its a given he would have knowledge though.

I'm not expecting you to give me an expert or scientific answer, just your opinion. Knowing that river as well as you do, are you amazed at the journey she traveled?

I'm so glad she was found :(
 
@mrazda71 - you have got me thinking more (although I still don’t believe one wet knee would be all that got wet) here’s some photos of the edge of the river. The reeds on these photos all seem to be on the other bank by the yeast factory. Potentially I still think LS could have accidentally run into the river- but here’s some photos which may help support your theory
The best way to see it is to find Strontium's video of the whole area which gives a much clearer view of that area

It also shows that brambles were cut back by the police that she might have stumbled into which would have torn clothes

And you have to consider that he chose not to admit to having sex with her which was a huge risk if he thought she'd be found.
 
@mrazda71 - you have got me thinking more (although I still don’t believe one wet knee would be all that got wet) here’s some photos of the edge of the river. The reeds on these photos all seem to be on the other bank by the yeast factory. Potentially I still think LS could have accidentally run into the river- but here’s some photos which may help support your theory


I didn't express a theory, I simply said that if I needed to pick up a large or cumbersome thing from the floor, that I'd likely sink to one knee to do so ... 2 knees I'd never get back up - no knees I'd struggle to pick up the thing ...

Have a try yourself at home, set up an experiment - get your family involved (without explaining why first of course)
 
Not if she didn’t have rigor mortis set in and even during the second visit it wouldn’t have occurred. You would need some sturdy length of plank to push what would be a dead weight out without it sinking down. Wasted my childhood and now my own kids do it- pushing things out with branches on lakes and rivers and whatever else they can find, it’s really not easy. I did also state which law of physics in my post.
Really sorry but I can't find where you've said which law. <modsnip>
 
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@mrazda71 - you have got me thinking more (although I still don’t believe one wet knee would be all that got wet) here’s some photos of the edge of the river. The reeds on these photos all seem to be on the other bank by the yeast factory. Potentially I still think LS could have accidentally run into the river- but here’s some photos which may help support your theory
Pic 3 shows the part exposed riverbed of low tide too, just to confirm the tidal difference in water level do indeed stretch that far up the river.
 
I'm not expecting you to give me an expert or scientific answer, just your opinion. Knowing that river as well as you do, are you amazed at the journey she traveled?

I'm so glad she was found :(

Not amazed, no. I spent a good part of the earlier threads debating that was the only logical explanation for me while many thought it was simply impossible. We have lost many many people to that river and them later wash up on the banks of or be spotted floating within the Humber. I was pretty convinced from early on that would be the case.

There's an old saying (not completely true though to be fair) "the Humber always gives up its own".
 
Not amazed, no. I spent a good part of the earlier thread debating that was the only logical explanation for me while many thought it was simply impossible. We have lost many many people to that river and them later wash up on the banks of or be spotted floating within the Humber. I was pretty convinced from early on that would be the case.

There's an old saying (not completely true though to be fair) "the Humber always gives up its own".

Thank you. Watching the virtual aerial video posted 2 years ago and again today, it makes me think woah, how? Nothing's impossible, but I found it quite incredible
 
The best way to see it is to find Strontium's video of the whole area which gives a much clearer view of that area

It also shows that brambles were cut back by the police that she might have stumbled into which would have torn clothes

And you have to consider that he chose not to admit to having sex with her which was a huge risk if he thought she'd be found.
I don’t think whether he admitted sexual contact or not has much bearing on what actually played out that night physically. I’m just curious on what theories people have to get a body into the water, Living along a river and walking along a river I know how easy it is to misjudge and fall in during daylight (let alone when reflections and a still night may make the river look like solid open ground, lights and reeds on the opposite bank would draw the eye upwards away from the uneven ground.)
I’m not on the jury, I’m not assuming guilty or not guilty and thank goodness I don’t need to. I have watched the video many a time and added some photos just to help.
 
Thank you. Watching the virtual aerial video posted 2 years ago and again today, it makes me think woah, how? Nothing's impossible, but I found it quite incredible

I understand this, I stood on clough Road Bridge which isn't far from ORPF and took some pictures not too long after Libby vanished. It was a very very high tide, tippy top of the iron bankings. The tide was starting to flow back out and the speed of the water flow made me shudder. Its quite hard to imagine if you aren't local or familiar with the river but the sheer amount of water moved within a few hours is so vast, certainly no match for a single person. I think I possibly even posted a video to the thread at the the time, its quite eerie.
 
@mrazda71 - you have got me thinking more (although I still don’t believe one wet knee would be all that got wet) here’s some photos of the edge of the river. The reeds on these photos all seem to be on the other bank by the yeast factory. Potentially I still think LS could have accidentally run into the river- but here’s some photos which may help support your theory
I do not believe PR went back to put Libby in the river. I think it was all done at the same time. I know the timing seems tight but I do not think it is impossible. Even drunk people can try to escape when in danger. Libby may not have ran like a gazelle but she could have tried. PR was pumped up on adrenaline, worried about getting caught, who knows what strength he had. PR is making a point to say he was not in the park, to me that means he was in the park. He went home, took a bath, watched *advertiser censored*, put new clothes on and went back out to the park. I think he went back to make sure he did not leave anything behind. Also at some point he washed the clothes he had on when he was with Libby because they were wet. MOO
 
Not amazed, no. I spent a good part of the earlier threads debating that was the only logical explanation for me while many thought it was simply impossible. We have lost many many people to that river and them later wash up on the banks of or be spotted floating within the Humber. I was pretty convinced from early on that would be the case.

There's an old saying (not completely true though to be fair) "the Humber always gives up its own".

Thank you so much for your insight, very helpful. I don’t think this is as clean cut as i first thought that’s for sure. So many different options of what could of occurred that night and without raw evidence it’s going to be difficult to get a murder conviction, IMO.

It’s worth noting I don’t want him roaming any streets, frightening locals ever again. I just wish she had been found earlier, there was CCTV or a witness in the park. Frustrating.
 
Thank you so much for your insight, very helpful. I’m sure the members of the Jury who have lived in Hull their entire lives will know as much too. I don’t think this is as clean cut as i first thought that’s for sure. So many different options of what could of occurred that night and without raw evidence it’s going to be difficult to get a murder conviction, IMO.

It’s worth noting I don’t want him roaming any streets, frightening locals ever again.

The trial is in Sheffield so I wouldn't think they would have much of an idea to be fair.
 
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