UK - Libby Squire, 21, last seen outside Welly club, Hull, 31 Jan 2019 #21

[LucyRocket]

This is the image I posted on the earlier threads, I do have the video but unfortunately the file is too large to upload. I'm not good with distance but this is not far from oak Road, the first bridge along.
The video doesn't appear to show the river flowing as quickly as I remember but the flow is definitely visible. If anyone has any idea how I could share it?

These were taken March 23rd 2019

You could try cutting it down, so it's a shorter time frame?

 

[LucyRocket]

This is the Trail upto the river, i will post up about 5 or 6 photos showing the areas and routes through the park/fields to the river. Dunno if anyones interested but i will do it anyway

Yes I am, thank you

 

[Newthoughts]

Libby was also filled with adrenaline. She was fighting for her life.
It could have sobered her up pretty quickly.
I think he is lying about not going into the park and it happened under the street lights.
I think he exposed himself whilst driving and Libby tried to make a run for it as soon as the car stopped. I do not think PR would have left the park if she was still alive. Or if he left because he thought her screams might make someone alert the police I think he would have hidden nearby to see if anyone arrived and then when they did not ,return back.

If she was just drunk. But the expert witness said her body temperature would make it difficult for her to run away.

 

[Vermont24]

I've always known it as clough Rd to be fair, even before the twin bridges when it was the singular one, just by B&Q/Burger King. Perhaps it is officially called Stoneferry Bridge?
Its actually Clough Rd rather than Stoneferry Road though.
Although stone "ferry" would seem more in keeping with the rivers history.

Me too, but it's actually neither. Clough Rd stops at the roundabout and becomes Ferry Lane, which includes the bridge carriageway. The structure itself is called Stoneferry Bridge...but Stoneferry Road doesn't start until after the bridge. Shrugs all around, eh.

 

[Corneileus]

Trail upto the river bank from the top left side of the fishing pond

 

[Newthoughts]

Honestly its not up for debate, the river IS tidal, massively so. A quick Google search will show you this. The fact there is a "tidal barrier" close to its mouth by the Humber is also a dead giveaway.

There are high and low tide times AT LEAST as far up as Beverly, which is way further (up?) away from mouth than ORPF.

Ok. Earlier on I was constantly saying that because someone had said that morning high tide was 2.30 i.e. coincidentally the time PR returned.

Then I was firmly told that the tides made no difference at that point therefore the time of PRs return was not significant.

If it is tidal his return at 2.30 is IMO significant.

And having seen the Humber Estuary at high and low tide I'm amazed she got as far as she did

 

[Mommysleuth11]

Me too, but it's actually neither. Clough Rd stops at the roundabout and becomes Ferry Lane, which includes the bridge carriageway. The structure itself is called Stoneferry Bridge...but Stoneferry Road doesn't start until after the bridge. Shrugs all around, eh.

Thats actually really interesting.
Everyday's a school day eh!

 

[Corneileus]

trail leading upto the river, i will post several more pics if i can get my head around it! im not sure these ones are posting?

 

[Offaly]

I’m not sure how skimpy the reporting has been, whilst it hasn’t been packed full of details, it’s been consistently reported throughout the case, there hasn’t been a missing morning or afternoon where no reporting happened. The case was allocated four weeks- the prosecution case was over and done with in 4 days- this is either due to some concrete evidence and confidence in the evidence produced, or no more evidence available to discuss. I think a remote tour reconstruction would have been reported- even in only this basic form with no more details.

If the defence is not going to bring it up (the timing) as a big issue , why wud the prosecution make a point of it?

 

[Corneileus]

The river bank straight across from the trail, its about 4 feet lower than when i saw it a few days ago (the river)

 

[elliefant]

trail leading upto the river, i will post several more pics if i can get my head around it! im not sure these ones are posting?

Yes they are, and much appreciated.

 

[Mommysleuth11]

@Newthoughts
I think the poster was maybe saying it isn't quite so noticeable at that point, possibly due to the grass banks rather than iron sided banks (?) I'm happy to be corrected though I can't remember who it was. Someone posted pics earlier that showed the partly exposed riverbed of low tide and I believe it was Vermont posted on Saturday that showed the river very high with the grass disappearing into the water.
I do see where the confusion may have come from but it is tidal way further than ORPF and the water level certainly changes with 2 high/low tides daily.

 

[Sillybilly]

Hey everyone,

As this is an ongoing trial, please try to keep the discussion related to what is happening in the trial.

Thanks.

 

[Corneileus]

Ok. Earlier on I was constantly saying that because someone had said that morning high tide was 2.30 i.e. coincidentally the time PR returned.

Then I was firmly told that the tides made no difference at that point therefore the time of PRs return was not significant.

If it is tidal his return at 2.30 is IMO significant.

And having seen the Humber Estuary at high and low tide I'm amazed she got as far as she did

I have considered googling it, cant be bothered yet but its on the list...it could be significant or coincidence during his actions...I also hate to say it but it might not have been him who put her in there but the return later on has me swayed now, he went back and decided on the river. I will say, lots of europeans fish the river, infact hardly any locals do now because theres little in there to catch these days and the locals know it. If hes fished it, good chance he would know about the tides...

 

[LucyRocket]

trail leading upto the river, i will post several more pics if i can get my head around it! im not sure these ones are posting?

They are. Could you wait for the next snow fall and take some at midnight please with no flash

 

[LucyRocket]

If the defence is not going to bring it up (the timing) as a big issue , why wud the prosecution make a point of it?

They can only really do that in their summing-up, and I imagine they will. They can't ask PR how he managed it in the time-frame, because he didn't do it

 

[LucyRocket]

I think that will be the biggest part of their defence, as it's the biggest sticking-point for us

 

[Corneileus]

The cctv camera at the yeast factory. today I noticed that it is constantly turning around 360 degrees in a circle. First time ive ever looked properly but if it has night vision and was turning on the night it would of picked them up for sure i tripple checked.

 

[Offaly]

We have to bear in mind that there was no screaming between 12:14 and at least 12:15, but then the screaming started. I know the witness could have been woken by screaming and not registered what had woken him up, but my point is that if he'd carried Libby from the car to the river the screaming that was heard started over 4 minutes later. That minute of quietness between 12:14-12:15 ,and possibly from 12:11 to 12:14, suggests to me that there could have been a period where she was trying to be quiet, hiding. I think she'd have been screaming continuously if he was carrying her all the way through the park to the water's edge.

Perhaps he did rape her near the car and she was too petrified to scream. Then as he's picked her up (12:15) and carried her to the river she's started screaming and screams constantly until he gets her to the water's edge. He needs to have left the river to get back to the car at a fast walk I'd guess at about 12:17, so with her ability to scream between 12:15 and 12:17 (I'm ignoring the 4 - 7 minutes of screaming reported) would he have put her down to 'gently' asphyxiate her at the water's edge before making his escape?

There are too many unknown variables in my scenarios but we have to be guided I think by what the witness with the phone heard and didn't hear, to try to eliminate some scenarios. The minute of silence before screams is most puzzling, perhaps that was during the rape while Libby is using her energy not to scream but to fight and scratch him. But that suggests she got into the park under her own steam, which would have been at a slower more staggered pace, and it also suggests he didn't asphyxiate her during the rape, because she could scream afterwards.

It's all a puzzle isn't it? There are numerous possibilities of what happened re the timing and location of rape and into the water so we'll never know exactly. All we can do is speculate and look at the likelihood of what happened given what we know. I can't at all imagine the rape taking place on the green bit before the park entrance though like PR said. Surely it's way too light there (street lights etc) also it's so exposed - houses nearby where anyone cud have seen them from a window, people out walking maybe. Far too conspicuous for PR to risk it.

 

[Tortoise]

I've set up a poll thread

POLL - UK - Libby Squire