UK - Libby Squire, 21, last seen outside Welly club, Hull, 31 Jan 2019 #22

[elliefant]

To get home in time for tea after a week away from home

 

[JosieJo]

Yes, I was just looking back on Sam Alford's testimony and while I think he may have over-estimated some of his times I can't ignore the fact that they must have lasted several minutes at least, after about 12:15, for him to recollect different periods of screams and intervals.

If Libby was screaming after the rape, he hadn't asphyxiated her during the rape.
If Libby was screaming because she thought he was going to rape her, that means she hadn't yet been raped by at least about 12:17 - and that means shortening the screams SA heard to just 2 minutes overall. I think the pauses and patterns suggest it was longer than 2 minutes. If he hadn't raped her by 12:17 I don't think there's any chance he managed to rape her and get her in the river and himself back to the car by fast walk, in less than two minutes.
If Libby was screaming during the rape the same applies - he had to have asphyxiated her when the screams stopped and my impression, from the pattern noticed, is she was still screaming beyond the time he would have left her (12:17-12:18) to get back to his car.

I don't think he could have asphyxiated her.

Reminder of SA's testimony

Mr Alford said: “Initially, some screams were intermittent with 30 seconds or a minute between them. At first I sort of ignored them then the second one was a pattern to them and then that’s what sort of made me think - it’s hard because where I live is near the uni accommodation is teenagers on the park, girls screaming, people out having parties on the park so you tend to ignore it. It happens all the time.

“Then I heard the screams again and when I looked I couldn’t see anyone on the park. The screams were enough to make me think, ‘what could that be?’ but it was the pattern - they weren’t constant and that’s what sort of stood out for me.

Pawel Relowicz is giving his account of what happened to Libby - updates

That's a very good point...based on that testimony she had to be alive when he left her

 

[Newthoughts]

Is anyone else not convinced by the 12.30 'screams' witness statements?

Sams testimony is much more convincing to me, seeing as he identied the screams as human, got up to look and saw 'a man' leaving the park.

I'm not particularly convinced as the boyfriends initial thought was animal and nobody looked. Whereas the other guy looked.

 

[Tortoise]

They’re equally convincing to me; I think they all heard the same thing but it’s the timing that’s the issue. From that point of view I’m inclined to give more credence to Sam as he received a text which woke him & he therefore has a record of when he woke.

But here we have two witnesses checking the time so the chances of them both being wrong are less.

"Mr Brewster says it was around 12.30am that he heard the scream. He says he checked the time."

"She says it was at around 12.30am that she last checked her phone on February 1."

 

[Newthoughts]

I still get a fright when I hear a Fox scream, I'm never quite sure whether it's a Fox or a person, have often gotten out of bed to have a look out the window.

I've phoned the police after hearing foxes scream the first time.

 

[Winterbells]

They’re equally convincing to me; I think they all heard the same thing but it’s the timing that’s the issue. From that point of view I’m inclined to give more credence to Sam as he received a text which woke him & he therefore has a record of when he woke.

I can't remember if Sam woke up because he had a text or he read his text because he'd woken up. I'm just not sure from the reporting if the text was actually received at 12.14 - and even if it was, I guess it still doesn't prove that Sam woke up at the moment it was received.

 

[Skigh]

10:27
Why did Relowicz return to Oak Road for a third time?

Relowicz is now being asked about his third visit to the playing fields, in the early hours of February 1.

He arrived there at 2.25am and left a little after 2.30am.

Relowicz told the jury earlier this week that he “went back and stopped and looked to see whether Libby had been into a yard or was laying on the ground.”

When he was interviewed by officers, Relowicz said on several occasions that he had gone back to see “if she was laying on the ground.”

Mr Wright says the account given to the jury is that he left her alive and well, standing on Oak Road.

Relowicz said: “I left Libby Squire on Oak Road and went home and went back there because I was worried she could fall over as she had fallen over on many occasions previously. It was cold, minus two and a half degrees so she could have frozen or something.”

Mr Wright said: “Did you go back, Mr Relowicz, to make sure you had cleaned up after yourself when you had raped and killed her?

“Or were you going back to move her body where you left it on the ground and to put it into the river?”

Relowicz has answered “no” to both questions.

Pawel Relowicz returns to witness stand as week two of trial ends

Just thinking. If he said he went back to see if Libby was alright and might have wandered into a yard,why did he stop looking after only 5 minutes? wouldn't He also take a torch and be calling out to her? He really does stitch himself up.

 

[astheworldfallsdown]

Just thinking. If he said he went back to see if Libby was alright and might have wandered into a yard,why did he stop looking after only 5 minutes? He really does stitch himself up.

He's a gift to the prosecution IMO, handed himself on a plate to them. JMO

 

[JusticeDT]

Thanks jamjim for the updates today.

 

[Winterbells]

Residents often complain they can hear foxes scream at night, particularly during the mating season in December and January. Although the noise is harrowing when first heard, it is entirely normal behaviour. If you are a light sleeper, it may be best to wear earplugs.
Foxes - Renfrewshire Website

 

[Zazie]

Any chance his wife is testifying?

What is the law around this? I had an idea spouses couldn't be called on to incriminate each other but this may well be based upon some old Cary Grant film I've seen (!)

 

[Tortoise]

I can't remember if Sam woke up because he had a text or he read his text because he'd woken up. I'm just not sure from the reporting if the text was actually received at 12.14 - and even if it was, I guess it still doesn't prove that Sam woke up at the moment it was received.

"He said: “I woke up, looked at my phone to check a text. It was 12.14am and around a minute or two after that’s when I heard the first scream."

UK - Libby Squire, 21, last seen outside Welly club, Hull, 31 Jan 2019 *ARREST* #19

 

[Sooty]

Do we know, from today’s scream witnesses, if 1) they had a view of the park from their windows and 2) of the indication is the screams were coming from the same area roughly as mr Alford and 3) where mr Alford and today’s witnesses lived in relation to one another.
?

I think if there was enough concern to report the screams, it was a real and genuine concern.

 

[Sarahjo]

They’re equally convincing to me; I think they all heard the same thing but it’s the timing that’s the issue. From that point of view I’m inclined to give more credence to Sam as he received a text which woke him & he therefore has a record of when he woke.

I thought Sam wasn't sure what woke him, did he testify it was a text that woke him? i missed that part.. if thats the case then surely his time is correct, you can't not see the time when you wake and read a text? But then the other witness also said they looked at the time and it was 12.30 so could the screams have been going on for 15/2o mins?? If only the CCTV that picked up the car lights could have been sensitive to noise too.

 

[Winterbells]

I guess it's possible that what Hannah heard was foxes screaming. If she was a first year student from somewhere where there aren't urban foxes, it could have been her first experience of hearing the soundtrack of fox mating season.

 

[Newthoughts]

What is the law around this? I had an idea spouses couldn't be called on to incriminate each other but this may well be based upon some old Cary Grant film I've seen (!)

I think it was discussed way earlier in the thread and I don't think spouses can be called and I don't think any testimony they give can be used in court tho I'm not sure.

IMO you wouldn't be able to trust a spouses testimony as they could be considered either for or against

 

[Winterbells]

"He said: “I woke up, looked at my phone to check a text. It was 12.14am and around a minute or two after that’s when I heard the first scream."

UK - Libby Squire, 21, last seen outside Welly club, Hull, 31 Jan 2019 *ARREST* #19

Thanks, Tortoise. Yeah - that's what's confusing to me - it's unclear, from that description, when the text was actually sent.

 

[Sarahjo]

I guess it's possible that what Hannah heard was foxes screaming. If she was a first year student from somewhere where there aren't urban foxes, it could have been her first experience of hearing the soundtrack of fox mating season.

yip, i still remember the first time i heard foxes when i moved house, it was horrific, i thought someone was being skinned alive!! i actually went outside to see where it was coming from but soon realised it was animal not human but its a very strange sound the first time you hear it..

 

[astheworldfallsdown]

I took it that Mr Alford saw the time on his phone when he went to check the message. JMO

 

[Winterbells]

Rules about spouses/civil partners being called to testify are here:
Competence and Compellability | The Crown Prosecution Service