UK - Libby Squire, 21, last seen outside Welly club, Hull, 31 Jan 2019 *ARREST* #18

[Jenesaisquoi]

I am wondering if she was disoriented due to hypothermia and thought PR was a taxi service.

 

[CoverMeCagney]

I am wondering if she was disoriented due to hypothermia and thought PR was a taxi service.

Or he told her that he was. Or he told her he could help her get into her house.

 

[Newthoughts]

I am wondering if she was disoriented due to hypothermia and thought PR was a taxi service.

I think if he'd said he was she'd have believed him. Cos taxi drivers are safe.

A few people genuinely and honestly tried to help and she refused. So I wonder if he was presented as a less honest more coercive, bamboozling type of good samaritan? Sort of 'dont be silly I'll help you get home' 'you're not thinking straight I'll help' rather than the more honest 'are you ok, do you need help'? Quite confusing and intimidating and a good tactic

 

[Sooty]

Do you think maybe the rape took place elsewhere (in the car, endsleigh centre?) and he took her to oak rd to kill and dump the body only?

at the moment I am keeping an open mind - I need to hear more from the prosecution with their evidence for the charge of murder and I need to hear from the defence answering some of these questions that have been raised on here.

 

[Newthoughts]

Do you think maybe the rape took place elsewhere (in the car, endsleigh centre?) and he took her to oak rd to kill and dump the body only?

The prosecution said he'd previously denied any sexual contact but after the DNA was mentioned the defence said he'd now admitted to sexual intercourse after he'd driven her to Oak Road so I guess not

 

[LucyRocket]

Or he told her that he was. Or he told her he could help her get into her house.

He could have said anything. These are things that we'll never know. There have already been things clarified in the prosecution's evidence. There will be further things clarified by witness testimony and by forensic evidence and by CCTV evidence but the real bones of the situation we'll never know. Because he'll never tell. I hate that, and I don't have a right to know. Her family do, but they will never get those answers either

 

[LucyRocket]

I think if he'd said he was she'd have believed him. Cos taxi drivers are safe.

A few people genuinely and honestly tried to help and she refused. So I wonder if he was presented as a less honest more coercive, bamboozling type of good samaritan? Sort of 'dont be silly I'll help you get home' 'you're not thinking straight I'll help' rather than the more honest 'are you ok, do you need help'? Quite confusing and intimidating and a good tactic

Deleted because I'm just listing the 969 possibilities about how/why she ended up in PR's car. Irrelevant because we'll never know

 

[ChiCubs2016]

I think if he'd said he was she'd have believed him. Cos taxi drivers are safe.

A few people genuinely and honestly tried to help and she refused. So I wonder if he was presented as a less honest more coercive, bamboozling type of good samaritan? Sort of 'dont be silly I'll help you get home' 'you're not thinking straight I'll help' rather than the more honest 'are you ok, do you need help'? Quite confusing and intimidating and a good tactic

I am 100% certain the defense will state it was consensual and Libby went with PR willingly. However I think the witnesses who tried to help Libby will prove she was not in any shape to consent. She was drunk, wobbly on her feet, aggravated, and unwilling to accept help. I do not believe there was any consensual intimacy at anytime. PR and the Defense can try but I think the jury will see through their shenanigans.

 

[martenwearer]

Screenshots from @Strontium69 video 2. Am I right in thinking this is the yeast factory? It seems a lot closer than I thought it would be


Found Deceased - UK - Libby Squire, 21, last seen getting into taxi outside Welly club, Hull, 31 Jan 2019 #9 *ARREST*

 

[JosieJo]

Screenshots from @Strontium69 video 2. Am I right in thinking this is the yeast factory? It seems a lot closer than I thought it would be


Found Deceased - UK - Libby Squire, 21, last seen getting into taxi outside Welly club, Hull, 31 Jan 2019 #9 *ARREST*

It looks like it is ...it is close ..hoping something is captured

 

[ChiCubs2016]

I am sorry about how I attached the video. I did not realize I posted the whole thread. I will try to figure out how to post just the videos!

 

[Sillybilly]

ADMIN NOTE:

Posts have been removed.

Speculation about consensual sex is not victim friendly and there is no MSM to support such speculation.

It is only up for discussion IF defense counsel introduces such a scenario. Otherwise it is off limits.

 

[Vermont24]

The video part-way down this page is worth a watch if you want to get a feel for the area in and around the park:

Libby Squire murder trial halted as juror 'can't get to car'

From 1:33 we're seeing the area approaching the old boathouse. You can make out the slope upwards towards the river behind the treeline.

The body of water seen at 2:45 is the lake which was searched early on in the investigation.

 

[Stumpyaura]

I think it would have been difficult to get Libby in the car against her will, unless he offered to walk her home or said he was going that way and then walked her to his car and coerced her in.

Once at Oak Park lots of assumptions that she may be struggling or running off, but there are also lots of examples where people just freeze through fear/shock/threat of harm/use of a weapon or are compliant in order to escape with their lives etc. This could fit the timings then if he made her walk into the park, raped her (often women don't struggle during a rape for above reasons) and possibly even forced her towards the direction of the water afterwards. I know that's a bit of a stretch but it would have sped all the events up significantly.

 

[HopeForGoodNews]

Thanks that's helpful. All those houses so close by...heartbreaking.

I know Libby was intoxicated and maybe not thinking straight but if you had a choice of running from someone into a park where it was dark (and you were scared of the dark), or down a well lit street. I dont think she went into the park willingly or running from him

 

[HopeForGoodNews]

It looks like it is ...it is close ..hoping something is captured View attachment 279558

I've attached google map satelite picture ofthe yeast factory and a picture of a security camera. I wonder if this is the one which picked up their movements or if there are more at the rear. The factory backs directly onto the river

 

[JusticeDT]

Long time reader and my first post. Hi all.

I wonder if he got her in the car by saying someone else was watching her and she was in danger and he would get her home. He could have even shown her a picture of his wife and kids including the new baby and this might have put her at ease.

I think the watch coming off her wrist at the point she got in the car suggests he had hold of her wrist and she tried to pull away. Perhaps she wasn't forced into the car and perhaps she didn't get in willingly either maybe somewhere in between and even then on the basis she thought it might be her safest option. He had knowledge of her fellow students living nearby from burglaries and could have even pretended to be a friend of them.

During the car journey he may have been saying all the right things to put her in a false sense of security, even as they passed her road e.g. "sorry i missed your road I will just turn around up here" and even after that sorry i need to stop for a wee while we are up here turning car around (ie by oak road).

I think the scratches to his face could be from him pinning her down during the rape. If he was on top of her and was using say his left hand, and his weight and knee to pin her down whilst using his right hand to unzip his jeans and push her underwear then it would make sense she had more wriggle room that side and with her left hand to fight back and scream his hands being occupied at that point.

I think the timings are tight but would think that her screams were silenced by him putting his hand over her face or something and as she managed to scream again he possibly blocked her airways even more resulting in her either dead or unconscious and this happened during the rape which may have been really quick. Possibly this may be a quicker process if someone is suffering hypothermia?Also, when watching mma sport they seem to be able to choke each other out really quickly.

The absence of a condom I think would be because he couldn't hold her down and get one on.

The land relating to the factory seems quite big and it seems to me from the boundary fences that it is a factory plus separate office and car park areas all possibly within Maudri Products boundary. Looks to me like the office and the factory and surrounding land take up a large part of land on the curve of the river bed and could easily have cameras that undeliberately get a view of the playing fields but i wonder if the cctv captures further away from the factory possibly near where they entered and as they got closer to the factory and river the camera view can no longer see them as the view is blocked.

Unfortunately, I think it is likely that the defence will argue she put herself in river. I think the statements from the mum and boyfriend are getting her side of this one out there first although sadly I think it does mean that this is likely to be the defence put forward to murder albeit not rape. I dont believe she went into the river herself.

I wonder if 3rd visit was to check the body had gone in the river but he could easily have dropped his wallet or something.

 

[Skigh]

Long time reader and my first post. Hi all.

I wonder if he got her in the car by saying someone else was watching her and she was in danger and he would get her home. He could have even shown her a picture of his wife and kids including the new baby and this might have put her at ease.

I think the watch coming off her wrist at the point she got in the car suggests he had hold of her wrist and she tried to pull away. Perhaps she wasn't forced into the car and perhaps she didn't get in willingly either maybe somewhere in between and even then on the basis she thought it might be her safest option. He had knowledge of her fellow students living nearby from burglaries and could have even pretended to be a friend of them.

During the car journey he may have been saying all the right things to put her in a false sense of security, even as they passed her road e.g. "sorry i missed your road I will just turn around up here" and even after that sorry i need to stop for a wee while we are up here turning car around (ie by oak road).

I think the scratches to his face could be from him pinning her down during the rape. If he was on top of her and was using say his left hand, and his weight and knee to pin her down whilst using his right hand to unzip his jeans and push her underwear then it would make sense she had more wriggle room that side and with her left hand to fight back and scream his hands being occupied at that point.

I think the timings are tight but would think that her screams were silenced by him putting his hand over her face or something and as she managed to scream again he possibly blocked her airways even more resulting in her either dead or unconscious and this happened during the rape which may have been really quick. Possibly this may be a quicker process if someone is suffering hypothermia?Also, when watching mma sport they seem to be able to choke each other out really quickly.

The absence of a condom I think would be because he couldn't hold her down and get one on.

The land relating to the factory seems quite big and it seems to me from the boundary fences that it is a factory plus separate office and car park areas all possibly within Maudri Products boundary. Looks to me like the office and the factory and surrounding land take up a large part of land on the curve of the river bed and could easily have cameras that undeliberately get a view of the playing fields but i wonder if the cctv captures further away from the factory possibly near where they entered and as they got closer to the factory and river the camera view can no longer see them as the view is blocked.

Unfortunately, I think it is likely that the defence will argue she put herself in river. I think the statements from the mum and boyfriend are getting her side of this one out there first although sadly I think it does mean that this is likely to be the defence put forward to murder albeit not rape. I dont believe she went into the river herself.

I wonder if 3rd visit was to check the body had gone in the river but he could easily have dropped his wallet or something.

Welcome to Websleuths. I enjoyed reading your post.

 

[Officer Dibble]

Most people can't scream while trying to survive drowning.
A lot of times drowning victims can't scream

Are there shallow-ish areas of that river? How deep is it?

 

[Mommysleuth11]

Are there shallow-ish areas of that river? How deep is it?

I think the answer is sometimes. Because its a tidal river it varies so much, closer to the town centre for example it swings between brimming close to the bank and a trickle down the middle of the mud flats. Its actually quite something to see if you cross the river at various different times. I think the high tide that night/morning was around 2.30am. Its also pretty full of silt/mud and rarely (if ever to my knowledge) dredged so it can build up areas where its more shallow.