UK - Libby Squire, 21, last seen outside Welly club, Hull, 31 Jan 2019 *ARREST* #19

[Catsarse]

New cctv footage which we have not seen yet:
CCTV released of Pawel Relowicz and Libby Squire 'together'

Relowicz arriving at Tesco in Hall Road
Relowicz in Newland Avenue
Relowicz making his first visit to Oak Road Playing Fields

When you play these HDM cctv videos there’s a good daytime one of oak road playing fields after the first cctv clips. Near the end of the vid you’ll see the effluent/ cooling towers at Mauri (yeast factory) where my dad worked before retirement. Their cctv covers that full area and also overlooks the park/playing fields

Strange, it doesn’t seem to have been mentioned today in court yet?

 

[kate2931]

Hi Guys, long time lurker here but would like to put my 2 cents in being someone who suffers mental health issues. In the past I’ve been paralytically drunk and suicide has crossed my mind out of seemingly nowhere. This is especially true when I’ve began to sober up and hate myself for the nights events or what I’ve perceived them as. This is just IMO based on past experiences.

thank you for sharing that poker face, I know the same from experience too.
I do think he killed her though, with everything we know, given his previous convictions, the stalking, the lies, the rape .. far too much here (and still more to be disclosed) for him then not to have caused her death in this case.

 

[phildav76]

This is my first ever post on this site, but created my account nearly 8 years ago! I have followed this case from the start. I am familiar with the area as my girlfriend in 2000-2002 was a student at Hull Uni. She lived in Desmond Avenue which is close to Beverley Road and the Oak Road Playing Field. And then Falmouth Street which is near PR's home. It still looks pretty much the same as it was the last time I was there in November 2002. I wasn't aware of the playing field. These were the days before iPhones and Google Maps!

From what I have seen so far the most problematic part for the prosecution is the small amount of time between PR and Libby arriving at the playing field and him leaving. Does it give a feasible enough time for him to attack her and carry her to the river and then return to his car?

The other thing that hasn't been mentioned is whether her body was discovered with clothing or not. The pathologist(s) who take the stand will give more details on this.

 

[HongKongPhooey]

This is my first ever post on this site, but created my account nearly 8 years ago! I have followed this case from the start. I am familiar with the area as my girlfriend in 2000-2002 was a student at Hull Uni. She lived in Desmond Avenue which is close to Beverley Road and the Oak Road Playing Field. And then Falmouth Street which is near PR's home. It still looks pretty much the same as it was the last time I was there in November 2002. I wasn't aware of the playing field. These were the days before iPhones and Google Maps!

From what I have seen so far the most problematic part for the prosecution is the small amount of time between PR and Libby arriving at the playing field and him leaving. Does it give a feasible enough time for him to attack her and carry her to the river and then return to his car?

The other thing that hasn't been mentioned is whether her body was discovered with clothing or not. The pathologist(s) who take the stand will give more details on this.

Welcome from the depths of lurkdom!

Without meaning to sound flippant at all, I bet the poor girl's pants were not there. He did something with those I'm sure, dread to think what.

I'm not sure if other clothes were washed away by the river but it was so sad to know her rescuers noticed her necklace.

 

[HongKongPhooey]

Hi Guys, long time lurker here but would like to put my 2 cents in being someone who suffers mental health issues. In the past I’ve been paralytically drunk and suicide has crossed my mind out of seemingly nowhere. This is especially true when I’ve began to sober up and hate myself for the nights events or what I’ve perceived them as. This is just IMO based on past experiences.

I hope they stay in the past for you Pokerface, thanks for sharing and welcome to the WS family

 

[Offaly]

I don't have a subscription to Telegraph but linking for anyone who does. It has a cctv image I don't think we've seen yet.

CCTV shows final movements of Libby Squire before she was 'raped and murdered by stranger'

I presume this is Libby with the two men who stopped to help her in the car. There are two other figures on the opposite side of the road - I wonder who they are? There seems to have been a lot of people around during this period.

 

[DiploRed]

I presume this is Libby with the two men who stopped to help her in the car. There are two other figures on the opposite side of the road - I wonder who they are? There seems to have been a lot of people around during this period.

I’m a bit confused about that car. Didn’t the two men who helped her come around 11:45? This image shows Libby with PR and another car that appears to be stopped on Beverley road? Maybe it’s the car PR was talking about when describing “Romanian” men in a car then but I never heard about it until today

 

[JosieJo]

This is my first ever post on this site, but created my account nearly 8 years ago! I have followed this case from the start. I am familiar with the area as my girlfriend in 2000-2002 was a student at Hull Uni. She lived in Desmond Avenue which is close to Beverley Road and the Oak Road Playing Field. And then Falmouth Street which is near PR's home. It still looks pretty much the same as it was the last time I was there in November 2002. I wasn't aware of the playing field. These were the days before iPhones and Google Maps!

From what I have seen so far the most problematic part for the prosecution is the small amount of time between PR and Libby arriving at the playing field and him leaving. Does it give a feasible enough time for him to attack her and carry her to the river and then return to his car?

The other thing that hasn't been mentioned is whether her body was discovered with clothing or not. The pathologist(s) who take the stand will give more details on this.

I totally agree i feel the time scale is very problematic..I think it fits far easier with him raping her and leaving her. Either way he is responsible for her death and I think his stalking and previous convictions will likely seal the deal for the prosecution..my problem is just because he is a horrendous sexual predator does not automatically mean he killed her with his own hands ...problem is with such an awful case like this are people likely to care as long as justice is done ..that may sound harsh but I do not know how else to describe it

 

[tigerowl]

Hello. Another lurker here too.

I joined to agree with the above points. I know Oak Road pretty well (although not super well) and I would be surprised if he managed to get Libby into the park, rape her, get her in the river and be out in the 10 or so minutes. The river is close, but I don't think it's that close.

It's really dark there though and she may well have stumbled into the river afterwards trying to find her way out in her confused state. It's possible too, that if she was already feeling suicidal, she probably felt even worse after the rape and sadly, it may have felt like an option to take that route herself.

I remember saying at the time she went missing that the police must have been absolutely certain she met her fate in Oak Road as they focussed all of their searching there. Whatever happened to the poor girl that night, PR is absolutely responsible for her death one way or another.

 

[mrazda71]

For anyone who hasn't already read - here is the list of things he pleaded guilty to.

I will never understand why people don't report these incidents, every single time! and immediately. Even if police can't seem to 'do' anything about a particular single incident, if EVERY single incident is reported then the police can build a picture and hopefully prevent a perpetrator setting to the point of rape and murder.

'Flashing' is not a harmless crime - it is the gateway to increasingly dangerous predatory offending.

Every twisted act committed by sexual predator Pawel Relowicz

 

[PitchforkRed]

I totally agree i feel the time scale is very problematic..I think it fits far easier with him raping her and leaving her. Either way he is responsible for her death and I think his stalking and previous convictions will likely seal the deal for the prosecution..my problem is just because he is a horrendous sexual predator does not automatically mean he killed her with his own hands ...problem is with such an awful case like this are people likely to care as long as justice is done ..that may sound harsh but I do not know how else to describe it

I think at this stage I am with you. We know the prosecution have said they now believe he will say he raped her, but that time scale is so close to call for all the rest. Isn't it barely 33 minutes from him first clocking Libby, stalking her, getting her into the car, driving to Oak Road, doing whatever happened at Oak Road, then arriving home? I know his crimes are hideous and have been escalating, and he is clearly responsible for her death in some way, but the step up to actually killing another human is something else. I wonder if we are going to hear any more of his Internet search history. We know about the masturbation sites but I wonder if he had any other preferences, choking/asphyxiation, etc. Shame we won't get to hear from his wife/any former girlfriends about this too.

The defence are really going to hammer the mental health issue.
Worrying to hear Libby's mum's statement about the river/suicidal thoughts too. The sad thing is we will probably never know for sure how things actually played out.

 

[mrazda71]

Hello. Another lurker here too.

I joined to agree with the above points. I know Oak Road pretty well (although not super well) and I would be surprised if he managed to get Libby into the park, rape her, get her in the river and be out in the 10 or so minutes. The river is close, but I don't think it's that close.

It's really dark there though and she may well have stumbled into the river afterwards trying to find her way out in her confused state. It's possible too, that if she was already feeling suicidal, she probably felt even worse after the rape and sadly, it may have felt like an option to take that route herself.

I remember saying at the time she went missing that the police must have been absolutely certain she met her fate in Oak Road as they focussed all of their searching there. Whatever happened to the poor girl that night, PR is absolutely responsible for her death one way or another.

Welcome

I personally don't believe it is the case BUT supposing you're right, after PR has finished the rape and 'runs away' leaving Libby in the park - she in her now 'suicidal' state would then have to purposefully locate the water in the dark park whilst disoriented, potentially in pain from the act of rape and the numerous falls, traumatised, intoxicated and hypothermic and purposefully 'chuck herself in the river' in such as way that she would drown but also not show definitive proof of drowning in an autopsy.

Whilst this is a scenario that one can, at a stretch, maybe make fit ... the truth is often the obvious, less convoluted scenario.

 

[Cherwell]

More likely, I think that he inadvertently killed her during the rape by smothering or strangulation, ran away when he realised what he'd done, afraid that the screams would have alerted someone, and came back later to dispose of the body. I think he could cover the ground in four minutes, he knew where to go and where he'd left her.

 

[JosieJo]

Welcome

I personally don't believe it is the case BUT supposing you're right, after PR has finished the rape and 'runs away' leaving Libby in the park - she in her now 'suicidal' state would then have to purposefully locate the water in the dark park whilst disoriented, potentially in pain from the act of rape and the numerous falls, traumatised, intoxicated and hypothermic and purposefully 'chuck herself in the river' in such as way that she would drown but also not show definitive proof of drowning in an autopsy.

Whilst this is a scenario that one can, at a stretch, maybe make fit ... the truth is often the obvious, less convoluted scenario.

The falling into the river in a disoriented and hurt state trying to go the opposite direction to her attacker more likely I feel

 

[mrazda71]

I think at this stage I am with you. We know the prosecution have said they now believe he will say he raped her, but that time scale is so close to call for all the rest. Isn't it barely 33 minutes from him first clocking Libby, stalking her, getting her into the car, driving to Oak Road, doing whatever happened at Oak Road, then arriving home? I know his crimes are hideous and have been escalating, and he is clearly responsible for her death in some way, but the step up to actually killing another human is something else. I wonder if we are going to hear any more of his Internet search history. We know about the masturbation sites but I wonder if he had any other preferences, choking/asphyxiation, etc. Shame we won't get to hear from his wife/any former girlfriends about this too.

The defence are really going to hammer the mental health issue.
Worrying to hear Libby's mum's statement about the river/suicidal thoughts too. The sad thing is we will probably never know for sure how things actually played out.

BBM A premeditated - preplanned purposeful murder may well be a a big step up from his previous offending but, if Libby died or was near to death during the act of rape, if he was on top of her in such a way as to restrict her breathing or if he has covered her face to stop her screaming and she has died as a result then that's not such a step up that he's taken ... I'm not saying it's accidental, I think he should be found guilty.

 

[mrazda71]

The falling into the river in a disoriented and hurt state trying to go the opposite direction to her attacker more likely I feel

Okay, I can see that but, if she was conscious enough to convey herself in the opposite direction to her attacker then she would almost certainly have shown clear evidence of drowning ... which she didn't.

 

[JosieJo]

For me its not that its impossible he took a step up and killed ...the problem is how will know for sure?

 

[JosieJo]

Okay, I can see that but, if she was conscious enough to convey herself in the opposite direction to her attacker then she would almost certainly have shown clear evidence of drowning ... which she didn't.

I'm hoping we get more clarity on that when the medical experts take the stand ..we have only yet heard the exerts the prosecution want us to hear as yet and even they admit drowning could not be ruled out

 

[Jenesaisquoi]

If he raped and ran, supposedly expecting her to live to tell the tale, was he not concerned that she would recognise her in the future, being as he lived nearby? He didn’t leave the country. He hung around despite missing posters. Yet she could have been in hospital, or run off to her home town...
He knew she wasn’t going to be around imo.

 

[JusticeDT]

I'm hoping we get more clarity on that when the medical experts take the stand ..we have only yet heard the exerts the prosecution want us to hear as yet and even they admit drowning could not be ruled out

I suspect we or certainly the jury will see some reconstructions and I think the medical evidence and pathology will be vast.