Found Deceased UK - Lindsay Birbeck, 47, Accrington, 12 Aug 2019 *Arrest* #3

[Alyce]

This trial is blagging my head abit now...I can't see how he could go down for murder with hardly any evidence saying he did it...it's a strange one.

Can someone please explain who the prosecution and defense are please and who is representing who...my brain not working

Prosecution David McLachlan
From state school to Queen's Counsel - Liverpool criminal lawyer 'takes silk'


Defence Mark Fenhalls
Mark Fenhalls QC - 23 Essex Street

 

[Angleterre]

I still think that his appropriate adult wasn’t so appropriate after all......

You may well be correct but if that were the case then why has this not been brought up before now. The appropriate adult starts at the very beginning and there has been months and months for the appropriateness of that particular adult to be investigated... so why now ? Hhmmmmmm

 

[Alyce]

Ummff!

* Goes to check map again.

Edit: Ah, yes i did mark this on a map I edited and posted here as one of the potential ways where Lindsay entered the Coppice.

Thank you, that's an excellent map with timings

 

[SpursGyal]

Appears Jury have been told to come back 2pm Monday.

 

[SpursGyal]

14:04
Jury asked to return at 2pm on Monday
The trial will not be sitting on Monday morning.

The jury have been asked to arrive at court and be ready to start at 2pm.


Lindsay Birbeck murder trial at Preston Crown Court - updates

 

[MusicalMonkey]

You may well be correct but if that were the case then why has this not been brought up before now. The appropriate adult starts at the very beginning and there has been months and months for the appropriateness of that particular adult to be investigated... so why now ? Hhmmmmmm

Even after '2 weeks' of this trail, there are far more questions than answers.

As I thought from the beginning. The defence's story is simply to say that a 'strange hooded man' could have easily entered the coppice committed the murder then taken advantage of a vulnerable teenager' then exited, without being detected.

Even though the main part of that is obvious baloney.

 

[Angleterre]

Agree, a trial in the UK Crown Court system should not look like this trial, and to be fair, doesn’t generally look like this trial, not the CPS finest hour.

I’m glad that you have the experience in Crown Court trials in the UK to back me up on this because I wouldn’t want my fellow WSs to believe that this is the norm when it certainly is not and generally, most trials undertaken, operate at a much more professional level with a far greater degree of evidence given , which supports the charges levelled against the accused on the indictment . I think that public pressure and public interest in this vicious crime against a vulnerable female out walking in the middle of the day, daylight hours, has swayed the Police and CPS to bring the trial to court at a far earlier stage than would normally be done and unfortunately, as a result of this pressure, there has not been sufficient time to go down every route in order to obtain all the available evidence. I feel IMOO their judgement has been clouded by the weight of public pressure to take someone to Court and to reduce the anxiety and public perception of the fear of crime coming to fruition by saying that there is no need to worry because the perpetrator who committed this heinous act, has been apprehended and will be going away for a very long time....
Because we no longer have the laws against double jeopardy, if RM was to be found not guilty of the murder of LB, at least this way, IF NEW EVIDENCE was to come to light further down the line and IF CPS BELIEVE THAT IT IS IN THE PUBLIC INTEREST TO PROSECUTE FOR A SECOND TIME, then at least we get to do it again and have two bites of the cherry !

 

[sunflower22]

12:26
No useful CCTV from Peel Park Avenue
The jury have been told that officers found three ‘potential sources’ of CCTV on Peel Park Avenue.

However defence barrister Mark Fenhalls QC said two cameras were not working on August 12 - the day Lindsay Birbeck disappeared - and the other was a motion camera which ‘sometimes worked for cars but not always’.

Det Sgt Dave Bowler agreed saying: “It picked up some vehicle movements but not all vehicle movements.”

Lindsay Birbeck murder trial at Preston Crown Court - updates

I wonder if the CCTV was just not working on this day? Or not working at all.

 

[sunflower22]

If found

I’m glad that you have the experience in Crown Court trials in the UK to back me up on this because I wouldn’t want my fellow WSs to believe that this is the norm when it certainly is not and generally, most trials undertaken, operate at a much more professional level with a far greater degree of evidence given , which supports the charges levelled against the accused on the indictment . I think that public pressure and public interest in this vicious crime against a vulnerable female out walking in the middle of the day, daylight hours, has swayed the Police and CPS to bring the trial to court at a far earlier stage than would normally be done and unfortunately, as a result of this pressure, there has not been sufficient time to go down every route in order to obtain all the available evidence. I feel IMOO their judgement has been clouded by the weight of public pressure to take someone to Court and to reduce the anxiety and public perception of the fear of crime coming to fruition by saying that there is no need to worry because the perpetrator who committed this heinous act, has been apprehended and will be going away for a very long time....
Because we no longer have the laws against double jeopardy, if RM was to be found not guilty of the murder of LB, at least this way, IF NEW EVIDENCE was to come to light further down the line and IF CPS BELIEVE THAT IT IS IN THE PUBLIC INTEREST TO PROSECUTE FOR A SECOND TIME, then at least we get to do it again and have two bites of the cherry !

If found not not guilty would he walk free, or at this point can they put another charge on him for disposal of a body?

 

[LancashireLad]

If she didn’t go up the side of the funeral place and Whittaker pub, would she then have not been seen on the same cctv that caught RM with the bin albeit on the opposite side of the road?

 

[Kaykedi]

I'm confused about court. It said the court was adjourned until 2pm today. Then, back with the jury 10.30am on Monday. But, nothing happening??

 

[Angleterre]

If found

If found not not guilty would he walk free, or at this point can they put another charge on him for disposal of a body?

If he gets found not guilty of murder then he will walk free.
The only way in which he can now be found guilty, if not of the charge of murder as per the indictment, would be if the prosecution asks the judge for permission to add a charge to the indictment of (for example) removal of a body/interference with evidence etc and the judge agrees with the defence having their input taken into consideration too and then the accused is arraigned on that alternative charge .

 

[MusicalMonkey]

Thank you, that's an excellent map with timings

* Map Edited to correct witness name error

IMO this pointed to the person Zoe saw and Lindsay's attacker being the same person - based on circumstantial timings and location:

See further edited map.

(*can't be bothered to edit my minor grammatical error)

Obviously we only have what we have. The people in court get to see the full maps and where possible the exact routes taken.

 

[Kaykedi]

Now they're saying no court until 2pm on Monday... Why???

 

[jamjim]

I'm confused about court. It said the court was adjourned until 2pm today. Then, back with the jury 10.30am on Monday. But, nothing happening??

I presume they can't report this afternoon as the jury aren't there. Whatever is going on now is between judge and lawyers. Jury have been asked to come back Monday at 2pm.

 

[Angleterre]

IMO this pointed to the person Zoe saw and Lindsay's attacker being the same person - based on circumstantial timings and location:

See further edited map.

(*can't be bothered to edit my minor grammatical error)

Obviously we only have what we have. The people in court get to see the full maps and where possible the exact routes taken.

Thank you so much for this
Very much appreciated because I don’t know and have not seen the area.
I know it’s of no consequence but how spooky is it that Lucy Braithwaite and Lindsay Birbeck both have the same initials??? I have not picked up on that tiny detail before and I am not saying that it is of any evidential value at all but it has just ‘thrown me’ in a spooky way!

 

[Angleterre]

Without me searching pages of posts, can any of my fellow WSs point me in the direction of Lucy Braithwaites testimony and what evidence she gave please?

 

[J4k]

I think it was assumed LB went up by WA but she could have accessed via Peel Park, they wouldn't know which way she went. I guess what the defence is getting at is would also mean that other people could have entered and exited via Peel Park and they wouldn't necessarily know... Who and when

Hi Folks newbie here
I wondered if they have further CCTV of her just after the CCTV at "The bungalow" on the opposite side of the road (so not a good picture, but enough to say she went past the entrances at WA
(the CCTV of him pulling the bin was just past this point on the opposite side of the road, so could well show her walking past the corner of Whitewell Rd)

I also think he is guilty, but wasn't alone in this crime, think maybe he is covering for someone else (maybe a friend or family member & is being exploited in that way) I don't think he would strike up a conversation with a random stranger or do anything they would ask of him, but might be inclined to help someone he knew. another small point, I am struggling to see how he managed all this alone. even if he is deceptively strong, it would still be very difficult to move her into a wheelie bin on his own, he looked like he was struggling even to pull it along the tarmac

I have been looking at this from if he were innocent & if he were, surely he'd want to provide them with as much information as he possibly could, but instead he stayed "no comment" throughout 3 days of interviews. Also do we know of "When" this supposed stranger appeared, he was very vaige about the description, but he would at the very least be able to put a timeline on this & also would be able to show police where he was initially taken to move her body from, as others have mentioned the window is very small, so any details like this would've greatly helped the investigation. His refusal to help at all makes him more guilty in my eyes (moo)

 

[sunflower22]

Thank you so much for this
Very much appreciated because I don’t know and have not seen the area.
I know it’s of no consequence but how spooky is it that Lucy Braithwaite and Lindsay Birbeck both have the same initials??? I have not picked up on that tiny detail before and I am not saying that it is of any evidential value at all but it has just ‘thrown me’ in a spooky way!

I think she was called Zoe Braithwaite

 

[jamjim]

According to the court listings, the case was adjourned at 14:41 until Monday.