Found Deceased UK - Lindsay Birbeck, 47, Accrington, 12 Aug 2019 *Arrest* #3

[The Truth Is]

I'm 95% certain he's guilty. I've got 5% doubt due to so many people on different sites insisting that someone else is involved

what sites?

 

[MusicalMonkey]

We know that he was seen heading to The Coppice at 2:27pm. What was he doing there? Lindsey leaves her house at 4pm, presumably for a walk in The Coppice. Dog walkers see her coat at 4:20pm and “heard a voice”. He is eventually seen leaving The Coppice at 6:19pm. What has he been doing there since 2:27pm?? He returns with his rucksack, then at 8:28pm with the wheelie bin.

Does anyone know the CCTV location for these?

Also, I presume that the coat was seen somewhere in the coppice not as another post says - near the funeral director's (adjacent to Whitaker's)?

 

[The Truth Is]

Easy to manipulate, maybe all they needed was someone to "take care of the body" while they got away...
Maybe he was told to wait around that day, and maybe the coat was hung to signify where the body was... I know he said he met a hooded guy, but that could be a cover story, maybe he knew she was gonna come to harm because someone had messaged or rung him and they had told him to wait around?
Just thoughts...
If he did plan on killing her he did a **** job of covering his tracks after, didn't plan it well... If he did it randomly why didn't he leave her where she was? Why not cover her body and leg it?

I think he moved her because he thought that with the searches focussing on the coppice, she might be found.

 

[The Truth Is]

I think it's where Hillside Funeral Directors is

I think it happened up in the woods on the path that takes you by the field. Because the dog walkers that saw the jacket said he paced out where he saw it and said it was roughly 187m up from the gate.

 

[Legally Bland]

I think it happened up in the woods on the path that takes you by the field. Because the dog walkers that saw the jacket said he paced out where he saw it and said it was roughly 187m up from the gate.

I make 187m roughly here:

خرائط ‪Google‬‏‏

Are we thinking the same?

 

[The Truth Is]

I make 187m roughly here:

خرائط ‪Google‬‏‏

Are we thinking the same?

Yes approx. I think he then may have put her in the bin that night and wheeled her down the field to a hiding spot while it was dark

 

[Jartykarate]

What’s everyone’s views so far? Guilty or not guilty of murder.[/Q

I think he is guilty, but the only evidence presented has been evidence of moving the body, there is no actual evidence of the murder itself.

It comes down to whether you believe that the killing and the concealment of the body could have been two seperate acts by two different people, seems very unlikely but it is the question of “beyond reasonable doubt” I suppose.

 

[MusicalMonkey]

I make 187m roughly here:

خرائط ‪Google‬‏‏

Are we thinking the same?

I wonder when the sighting of the coat was reported to police. As when it was seen the witness says they didn't know Lindsay was missing at that time.

Still, the witness seemed to know more or less within a metre or so where it was. I can only hope that this area was forensically investigated as it seems very likely that the area close by was the actual murder location - which nobody ever found.

Even more so as Lindsay was considered 'high risk'.

 

[MusicalMonkey]

So this is my view based on the evidence I have heard so far (obviously that is not complete and mostly only known by those involved with the case:

2.27pm - The defendant goes into the Coppice in order to stalk out a lone female to 'attack'.

4.06pm - Lindsay heads into the Coppice for one of her usual walks subsequently walking up the tree lined Coppice path.

Sometime within the next 10 mins approx the defendant jumps out and attacks her (somewhere very close to the area where her coat was sighted at 4.20pm).
According to the evidence given about the severity of the neck injuries I'm guessing she died fairly fast.
The coat is pulled off quickly - hence is inside out and this is used to assist as the body is somehow dragged/pushed over the barbed wire fence - (the smooth surface of the coat assisting with the sliding motion and also helping to stop the body/clothes jagging on the barbed wire).
Moments later the defendant hears the dog walkers at 4.2opm and so lies low - hence cannot pull the coat off the barbed wire fence at that time (obviously this was removed not so long after as it wasn't sighted by any other walkers).

The next 2 hours. Well that's anyone's guess. Motives unclear what happened to the body and if any other 'assaults' took place.
It's fair to say that the defendant did his best to conceal the body with what was available and may have even stripped the body naked at that time.

Sometime after 6pm the defendant makes his way out of the Coppice (is clocked on the CCTV leaving at 6.17pm).

Obviously the body is up there hidden from the path, and probably at least partially covered by undergrowth etc.

The defendant returns home and moves onto the next stage in his plan whether part by improvisation or not (i.e. - changing his mind as Coppice was due to be searched). This of course involved moving the body, the plastic sheeting, the rucksack, the saw, the wheelie bin, returning to the body etc. etc.

*The 'voice' that the dog walking witness heard can probably be discounted. Their recollection is very vague, it could have been 'children's distant voices from far away.
[*The other theory is that Lindsay was possibly still alive at this point,at least partially so and the 'voice' could have been her, maybe being stopped with a hand over the mouth or not in any condition to scream/cry out, or it could even have been the defendant's voice]

I do have another scenario involving a 2nd person, though it doesn't include a Mysterious Hooded Stranger.

 

[Kaykedi]

So this is my view based on the evidence I have heard so far (obviously that is not complete and mostly only known by those involved with the case:

2.27pm - The defendant goes into the Coppice in order to stalk out a lone female to 'attack'.

4.06pm - Lindsay heads into the Coppice for one of her usual walks subsequently walking up the tree lined Coppice path.

Sometime within the next 10 mins approx the defendant jumps out and attacks her (somewhere very close to the area where her coat was sighted at 4.20pm).
According to the evidence given about the severity of the neck injuries I'm guessing she died fairly fast.
The coat is pulled off quickly - hence is inside out and this is used to assist as the body is somehow dragged/pushed over the barbed wire fence - (the smooth surface of the coat assisting with the sliding motion and also helping to stop the body/clothes jagging on the barbed wire).
Moments later the defendant hears the dog walkers at 4.2opm and so lies low - hence cannot pull the coat off the barbed wire fence at that time (obviously this was removed not so long after as it wasn't sighted by any other walkers).

The next 2 hours. Well that's anyone's guess. Motives unclear what happened to the body and if any other 'assaults' took place.
It's fair to say that the defendant did his best to conceal the body with what was available and may have even stripped the body naked at that time.

Sometime after 6pm the defendant makes his way out of the Coppice (is clocked on the CCTV leaving at 6.17pm).

Obviously the body is up there hidden from the path, and probably at least partially covered by undergrowth etc.

The defendant returns home and moves onto the next stage in his plan whether part by improvisation or not (i.e. - changing his mind as Coppice was due to be searched). This of course involved moving the body, the plastic sheeting, the rucksack, the saw, the wheelie bin, returning to the body etc. etc.

*The 'voice' that the dog walking witness heard can probably be discounted. Their recollection is very vague, it could have been 'children's distant voices from far away.
[*The other theory is that Lindsay was possibly still alive at this point,at least partially so and the 'voice' could have been her, maybe being stopped with a hand over the mouth or not in any condition to scream/cry out, or it could even have been the defendant's voice]

I do have another scenario involving a 2nd person, though it doesn't include a Mysterious Hooded Stranger.

Excellent post. Thank you. I would love to hear your scenario about the second person!

 

[MissUnderstood]

I'm 95% certain he's guilty. I've got 5% doubt due to so many people on different sites insisting that someone else is involved

If there was a hooded man he certainly ran into him and the body rather quickly! The cctv has him around there before, during and after Lindsay went missing. That means he also knows the location of the murder, which he has not divulged yet. I think he is the sole offender here, he is not giving more info as they will find more evidence against him. MOO
Also, where are lindsays clothes? We know her shoes were cut up in the bin, a possible coat sighting on the day but no other mention of any other articles of clothing.

 

[MissUnderstood]

All the crime experts say that a person who commits a random attack flees the scene don't they. They don't hang around to clean up the crime

I don’t think they ask a person going past to hide a body either! JMO

 

[LucyRocket]

The money has already been given to the person that

my thought is that someone from their community was paid to do this, he then got the defendant to cover it up. They will not grass on their own hence why he won’t name the hooded man. That’s my thought on it all.

Although...... 'they won't grass on their own' and yet his own parents presented him to the police station?

 

[Kaykedi]

Although...... 'they won't grass on their own' and yet his own parents presented him to the police station?

Were the parents going for 'damage limitation', our son did not kill that lady, what upstanding citizens of the community we are bringing our son to stand here before you to tell you all he knows, bla bla bla?

 

[Doris777]

Some really good points made on here today.

Thanks for showing me Google earth...it's actually showing me abit better the route me took. It makes the area look huge but it's not that far from the road to the coppice. I didn't even know them out buildings where there. Does anyone have some pictures of where the coat was found ect so I can look on the map myself?

Someone said about taking the lad to the police station. Do u not think they have done this because he's been told to be the guilty one? So family take him to the police station so the police don't go snooping at there home. Possibly then things can be taken care of at home..ie things hidden ect.. also has anyone said anything about Lindsay's boyfriend. He doesn't seem to have been mentioned at all about from one occasion when the trial started.?

 

[Kaykedi]

Some really good points made on here today.

Thanks for showing me Google earth...it's actually showing me abit better the route me took. It makes the area look huge but it's not that far from the road to the coppice. I didn't even know them out buildings where there. Does anyone have some pictures of where the coat was found ect so I can look on the map myself?

Someone said about taking the lad to the police station. Do u not think they have done this because he's been told to be the guilty one? So family take him to the police station so the police don't go snooping at there home. Possibly then things can be taken care of at home..ie things hidden ect.. also has anyone said anything about Lindsay's boyfriend. He doesn't seem to have been mentioned at all about from one occasion when the trial started.?

You have made a point there Doris about why his family took him to the police station. Do you think it's a member/members of his 'community' that have told him he's guilty, or, someone outside of it? I haven't heard anyone say one word about Lindsay's boyfriend either. I wonder if it's partly because he doesn't live in the area? Maybe more difficult to be a part of things when you live and work in Cumbria?

 

[Kaykedi]

Do we know if the soles of Lindsay's trainers were found? Or, was it just the upper parts discovered?

 

[SpursGyal]

Do we know if the soles of Lindsay's trainers were found? Or, was it just the upper parts discovered?

I believe both parts were found.

 

[Kaykedi]

I believe both parts were found.

Thank you very much

 

[SpursGyal]

‘and a large skip from the cemetery contained a pair of her Sketchers trainers which had been cut along the sole.’

It doesn’t state any part remains missing.


Lindsay Birbeck murder trial: Every piece of evidence heard in week one