Found Deceased UK - Lindsay Birbeck, 47, Accrington, 12 Aug 2019 *Arrest* #4

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As promised previous post on Autism Spectrum Disorders by LucyRocket on 1st March 2020. It really is well worth reading.

I'm not quite sure how to write this, so bear with me while I try and get started.

I can't join in with any of the theorizing because it's been reported that the youth has autism.

Everything I see posters theorizing seems to be around the thinking of someone not on the spectrum. When apparently he is. We have no idea of his range of autism, all I can tell is that he has speech. That's it.

I'm trying to recall some of the things that stand out to me.

1. Him spending so much time alone on the coppice being unusual. No it isn't. All of the male youths I with with spend nearly all of their time alone, having as little communication with other people as possible. Some spending all of their time on a computer, and some spending equal time on a computer and outdoors. Whether on a computer or outdoors, their thoughts are completely solitary. For those that have speech, even at times when they are having conversation with others, the other party has to follow the conversation as it plays out in the mind of the person with autism, or they can't continue with the conversation.

(I mean no disrespect by using 'they', by 'they' I am referring to my recollection of each time I have supported young males who have autism, in a criminal investigation).

2. Trying to rationalise his actions. A person with autism has their own 'manual' that they live by. By 'manual', this is how I refer to their understanding of how life should be. You can't tell them any different. They will just think you are wrong. Autism is very matter-of-fact and most people on the spectrum don't have the capacity to accept that there are different ways for different people. Eg. A person who is noisy is wrong. They will not accept that that person is happy, or excited in that moment. They are just a bad person for being noisy. Noise is not acceptable according to the manual. This is one example, but it applies to their thinking about all aspects of human behaviour. You can add to their manual, but you can't change it.

3. Jonty Bravery being used as an example of a person with autism understanding the consequences of his actions, because he had reportedly said he wanted to kill someone, and had specifically said that he wanted to push someone off a high structure. This only shows that he had a plan of action. He knew what actions he wanted to carry out, but there is nothing that's been reported on that case which indicates he had any connections to the emotions or consequences on victims. Which most people on the autistic spectrum wouldn't.

4. It's very difficult to question someone with autism. You know the questions that you looking for answers to, but they don't understand why you are questioning, and due to the point I made about a conversation having to follow their own thoughts, don't cope well with questioning. They don't understand why you would be asking, because of course, the logical answers are all in the 'manual', which as far as they are concerned, we know. They would want to escape from a situation of being questioned. It's about one of the most anxiety- inducing situations they face.

To try and cover these points with a specific example, I'll tell you about the most recent arrest I have been part of. A young man with autism I know very well. Functions fairly independently. I have as good a relationship with him as anyone. He goes out for hours during the night. I don't know what he's doing for these hours. In the morning he'll show me pictures of the moon, pictures of car lights in the fog. So I can see some of the places he's been. I'll ask him what was he doing out late at night and he'll say something like "I mustn't cross the road when it's foggy Lucy because the car might not see me and bang" and then he'll walk away, because I've asked a question. He will go out for hours during the day and I know he is spending a lot of time in the bushes at the primary school. He tells me that there are often balls in the bushes and that's why he goes there, to look for them. He'll spend hours in there watching the children. You can imagine what people think when they see this, and he doesn't 'look' disabled. I ask him if he has a girlfriend and he says when he has a wife he will let me know, that there are lots of girls in the primary school and lots of girls in the college and who knows which one will be his wife. I try to explain to him that he mustn't look at the girls in the school because he is a man, so they can't be his wife, but again he walks away, as my opinion is nonsense according to his manual.

I know this has no relevance to this case, I just thought maybe for some who might not have been in a position to have experience of autism it might be a little helpful. I still can't give any answers though because each person has slight variations, and as I said, all I think I know about the person you are discussing in this case is that he has autism and speech. All the wondering about why he cut her shoes, you'll never come up with an answer. Because you're looking at it from your reasoning. He will have, what is to him, the perfectly logical answer as to why he did that, but I can guarantee you that no matter how long you think about it you are NEVER going to come up with what that is. Unless he tells us. It's in the manual. The one we don't have.

I notice that the other person on this forum who I know has a good insight into autism has gone very quiet also, they've probably been feeling as up against a wall as I have.

@Whitehall 1212 You have hit the nail on the head and I can relate to this with two different people I know who have ASD. One of which ironically does hide in bushes but has a great love of insects and birds and also prides themselves on not being seen or heard. They have no idea it comes across as creepy to neuro-typicals as this is not the intent at all in their mind. Its just a black and white thoughts: 'insects, birds, no one saw or heard me again - I've been successful again'. You give a great analogy about the manual and fits the people I'm reminded of. They have no comprehension that we cannot know what was in their mind - its obvious to them what was in their mind so it must be obvious to us.
 
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I don’t know if this has been asked previously. But would his parents / friends/ relatives have been questioned at all? Would they have been asked about his whereabouts etc? I’m asking as I’m not sure if it would be part of the police investigation or not.

They could make a voluntary witness statement if they wanted. They can not be compelled to do this.

If the police had reasonable grounds to suspect they had committed any criminal offences, in connection with LB's disappearance, then they would have been arrested and interviewed under caution. That is not the case here from all we know.
 
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Hi thelastleg,

No I dont know him personally, never have come across him. Obviously as soon as it came to light who it was , with living locally and hearing different things and also checking his Facebook profile you build up a picture.

The boy is named after a very famous fighter. He is also a traveller and lives on a traveller site. Travellers have a different way of life and children are brought up quick with strength and fighting being a main factor especially for men. If I remember rightly his Facebook showed him stood there clenching his fist. He also went to the gym and could be seen lifting weights. All this to me points to the fact he was capable physically of moving a body compared to other 16 year olds.

One thing I did notice, when his picture first went on facebook to identify the individual many people recognised him because of the bin. Apparently he would walk around that area with that bin collecting scrap metal. This also ties in regarding his traveller background. But for me that proves also he was capable of moving the body if he is used to wheeling around heavy materials. As I said, many people mentioned this when his picture first came online.

So to me, as I have said above I think physically he was able to do it.

Now, the mental side. That's the thing which has also been a doubt. Any person without a learning difficulty never mind with would struggle mentally to face death without coming clean. To get the materials, to wrap the body that good, to leave no materials at the crime scene and then to dispose of the body in the cemetery is remarkable. Dont forget nothing was found at the scene of the crime and until someones pet rummaged around and found poor LB she still had not been found.

I know someone with autism and unless I told him how to do it, he would remember what I told him but he would struggle to do what he had apparently done. He must of done his research. Even if he went back to his home and someone explained what to do I just dont think he could of faced it and disposed of the body how he has. Not forgetting again how he left no trace at the crime scene and inside the bin.

He also disposed of all of her personal items especially the coat which has never been found.

It does make me think did someone help him but nothing has come to light from witnesses or CCTV.

I really do think he planned what he was going to do when or if he murdered LB.

Thank you Accy, Your views are clear and I understand completely where you are coming from. I have no doubt he will be found guilty of disposing of the body but if I were on the jury I would have my doubts if he committed the murder. I know that there is no evidence of anyone else involved but I have a recollection of a saying "Abscence of evidence is not evidence of abscence". I struggle to think that he planned it and carried it out on his own. Today I have my Aspergers colleague with me. His Mother had told me that I need to give him 1 instruction at a time and then count to 6 so that he can process the infomation. Apparently she was taught that at an Autism Awareness course she attended. He is intelligent in ways, has A levels but he cannot cope with doing something for very long. He goes home after a few hours. I know nothing about this boys attention span and he possibly has different issues. Thank you again. It has been good to read your posts.
 
Thank you Accy, Your views are clear and I understand completely where you are coming from. I have no doubt he will be found guilty of disposing of the body but if I were on the jury I would have my doubts if he committed the murder. I know that there is no evidence of anyone else involved but I have a recollection of a saying "Abscence of evidence is not evidence of abscence". I struggle to think that he planned it and carried it out on his own. Today I have my Aspergers colleague with me. His Mother had told me that I need to give him 1 instruction at a time and then count to 6 so that he can process the infomation. Apparently she was taught that at an Autism Awareness course she attended. He is intelligent in ways, has A levels but he cannot cope with doing something for very long. He goes home after a few hours. I know nothing about this boys attention span and he possibly has different issues. Thank you again. It has been good to read your posts.
He has already pleaded guilty to disposal of a body. They have 2 counts to reach a verdict on, Murder or Manslaughter.
 
Good point from the defence...they cant automatically presume he went home to collect the things he needed to dispose of her

Also very clever way of bringing in about the possibilities of someone who knows her killing her...without deflecting from the defendants stranger
 
“He says he encountered a man he doesn’t know, while out walking, and was offered a lot of money to move the body.

“The defendant does not have to prove anything. It is up to the prosecution.

From Judge

Imo exactly that ...here lies the problem
 
“He says he encountered a man he doesn’t know, while out walking, and was offered a lot of money to move the body.

“The defendant does not have to prove anything. It is up to the prosecution.

From Judge

Imo exactly that ...here lies the problem

However, the jury can draw inferences from the incomplete and/or circumstantial evidence that they have been presented with.

The critical element in the view of each juror, is whether or not it all adds up to the defendant having killed LB, with or without intent and beyond all reasonable doubt.

It is all very subjective!
 
Why would he not go back for the money? They can prove in 15 days he didn't.
On his statement he said 'when everything was clear' that could be any point in the future, maybe that is when the case had gone cold or after a certain point of time if her body had not been found. The Friday before she was found, was going to be the last day of public searches so maybe he was waiting until they had concluded before going back for his money, who knows... Ps. this isn't what I actually think but just a possible answer
 
Lindsay Birbeck was 5"10 and 53kg.


which equals 116 lbs or 8 stone 4 lbs

tall but by no means heavy
Wow, I'm shocked at that after seeing photos. The defendant was even lighter!
Why would he not go back for the money? They can prove in 15 days he didn't.

In my opinion it was because there was no money, hes murdered lindsay. That's why the story doesnt make sense as it's all fiction.

But if it is a legit story and statement weirdly I understand where he is coming from and it's that unbelievable its actually believable!
To me in that statement hes saying I've done it for someone else but I'm not saying who it was and I never will. The reason I've done it was for money and not because I'm a murderer. It's so vague as it's meant to be. Or is it?

Has another person who's murdered LB told him to give this story?

Has his family given him this story to say knowing it sounds believable because he is disabled?

Has he been given another statement to say but has muddled it up and forgotten it when in police custody?

When I first read the statement I thought it was a legit way of saying I'm never going to tell you who it was but it wasnt me.

However after all of the evidence and timings how can it not be the defendant? Again, as I've said before he was ready to bury and body. He knew what he was doing. Only way you know and can cope to do something like that and handle a dead body mentally and physically is having done your research and mentally prepared or be mentally unstable.

I think he will get not guilty.
 
That was the last time she was seen alive.

"She wasn't seen further down Burnley Road.


"There are cameras on Carlisle Road,


"A bus went past just 45 seconds later,


"That had CCTV and didn't capture her on Carlisle Road or Burnley Road.


"Therefore the police concluded that she turned left down Peel Park Avenue and that she was heading onto the Coppice.




I don't get this calculation. From the bungalow cctv to Peel Park Ave turn off is just under 300 metres, a walk of about 2 minutes. Maybe less if walking quickly, but not as quick as being able to do the distance in under 45 seconds.
The distance from the cctv to the pathway between Whittakers Arms and the Funeral Directors is about 30 metres, and very do able in less than 45 seconds.
I think this is where she turned up and put herself in direct path of her attacker.
 
Based on the evidence I would have to give not guilty as there is nothing decisive to make him 100% guilty of murder or manslaughter in my mind, I can’t rule out that another person was present and the only concrete evidence is that he moved and buried the body which he has admitted to.

Just on probability though I believe he will have been involved in the actual act even if it was just as an accessory.

My suspicion is that the jury will convict on a murder charge however.

Not long until we find out one way or the other.
 
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