mrazda71
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I think the fact that both her mother and Aunt have MS must have been something playing on her mind so, not all of her health anxiety is unfathomable
UK - Logan Mwangi, 5, found dead in Wales River, Bridgend, 31 July 2021 *arrests, inc. minor* #4
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I think the fact that both her mother and Aunt have MS must have been something playing on her mind so, not all of her health anxiety is unfathomable
This is what I thought myself and adding to the mix the meds and what's been described I would have thought she would have a medical issue. If not Ms then fibromyalgia or something.
As much as I believe she's done something wrong to Logan I don't agree we can all look at someone and automatically think that every inch of them is a lie or fake. I think every single one of them 3 are messed up in the head. Not all people like that go on do harm or murder but some do and some live normal lives and some live to the best ability they can but are still struggling. We can't judge on just the background alone. it's all messed up.
My Dad died of MS related complications last October after suffering from it for 26 years. MS is a neurological condition that is diagnosed by an MRI scan. It’s not something that can be faked. I think, like many people, you’re mixing it up with ME which was the subject of controversy in the early 00s because some physicians didn’t believe it existed. It’s accepted now that ot and fibromyalgia do exist but it is a misunderstood condition which does have a specific criteria for diagnosis which it appears AW did not fulfil.
Regarding AW’s health it’s important to look at it as a whole. AW wears hearing aids but has no diagnosed hearing problems and her hearing aids are not prescribed ones. AW claimed to have MS and used a wheelchair but was confirmed by an MRI not to have it and stopped using the wheelchair. She started using crutches and complained she had fibromyalgia but when a diagnosis for that was not forthcoming she stopped using the crutches. She claimed to have seizures but no organic cause was found for them and a diagnosis was made which suggested that her fits were a psychosomatic issue possibly to the point of being faked at will.
Her doctors also said that she had not raised many of the health issues she claimed to have with them. She had just told the people around her that she had them and they took her at her word, including the hearing aids. Medical confidentiality makes that a very difficult issue for family or friends to grapple with.
There were multiple other inconsistencies in her evidence. The biggest one was yesterday when AW was asked to relate the alleged attack by Cole on Logan including the number of punches. She was very, very clear and definite Cole had punched him twice and demonstrated it saying it was “like punch, punch’ and adamant she knew how many punches there had been. When it was pointed out to her that she’d said in her police interviews he hit him 3/4 times she suddenly decided her recollection was confused and she couldn’t remember. Someone telling the truth would have said they couldn’t remember in the first place. Plus she described the attack to police as ‘extreme violence’ but in court said it wasn’t that bad and she noticed no pain or suffering in Logan and she felt certain it couldn’t be the fatal attack.
Looked at as whole alongside other inconsistencies in her evidence, her health is just one facet of a picture made in combination that Angharad Williamson is a habitual liar and fantasist. It’s 100% certain she’s not telling the truth in court because she’s contradicted herself so many times.
I wasn't confusing anything as I remember MS being mentioned in the beginning as well as some other things which rings true to problems fibro brings up. Should know as I have many myself.
I didn't know and have never seen half of what u wrote about her medical history to be honest so I understand alot of it now.
What ever the problem she has I was only stating a point that it could be due to a illness like fibro which can cause memory problems and brain fog ect. Also hearing loss ect.
But fibromyalgia doesn’t make people lie. If someone in that situation with those issues was asked a question like ‘How many punches were there?’, the truthful answer would be ‘I know he punched him but I don’t know how many times, I have memory issues because of my medical condition so I can’t be precise’.
Fibromyalgia wouldn’t make someone say ‘I’m absolutely certain he punched him twice’ and demonstrate ‘it was like punch, punch’ then in the next breath say they have poor recollection of the event, it’s very confused and that they have memory issues about the event. That’s not illness. It’s lying.
Plus she’s being represented by a QC. If she had diagnosed illnesses that affected her recall there is absolutely no way that wouldn’t have been front and centre of her defence. It wasn’t.
She also doesn’t have a diagnosis of fibromyalgia. Even she didn’t claim she had fibromyalgia. When she was arrested she told the police that she suffered from depression, epilepsy and asthma. She also told Cole she had epilepsy.
In fact, she’d specifically been told by her doctor that she DIDN’T have epilepsy and her seizures showed no epileptic features at all. But she continued to lie, including to the police, that she had epilepsy when she KNEW she didn’t.
Thelastleg
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That's possible or perhaps psychosomatic due to the stress of her dysfunctional lifestyle. She may be thinking a secure psychiatric hospital is preferable to prison and there will be more histrionics
nothinonyou
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sorry if this has been discussed but regards to the murder charge, and we might not know until the judge directs the jury on the law, but does anyone know if all three can be found guilty of murder or will it have to be just one? as in one person dealt the final blow? the fact they all are charged with murder suggests all 3 can go down for it? (which I think they will if the judge allows the jury to vote for this)
That was the reason I did mention it in the first place as it's not a know illness and what and how it effects people. It's alot of illnesses rolled into one. And effects people in many ways.
Also goes hand in hand with lifelong/ early childhood trauma. Which is another thing I mentioned earlier on in one of the threads. Lol
Oh well I'm going to bed.! Lol
Seattle1
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I seem to recall (?) that AW also mentioned that her mother had MS. If true, she may be mimicking symptoms and relying on hereditary factors to perpetuate her fantasy. JMO
Bluedaisy100
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This is just speculation, but maybe she knows something's wrong with her and attributes it to physical ailments. When in truth she's got psychological issues of some sort or another.
katydid23
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I really think that torn up Panama top holds the key to the mystery---but I don't understand it really.
Who tore it into 3 pieces? That takes a lot of strength to do so. Makes me lean towards JC as the one who tore it up. But I don't know that for sure.
Who tore it into 3 pieces? That takes a lot of strength to do so. Makes me lean towards JC as the one who tore it up. But I don't know that for sure.
katydid23
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<modsnip -quoted post removed>
Online and BBM:
[I copied this from cholo's post upthread]
Forensics
Forensic examination of Logan’s discarded dinosaur pyjama top revealed it had been torn into three parts.
The first part was the back of the garment including the collar, which was grubby with mud and had no visible blood staining.
The second part was most of the front of the garment and collar, which was grubby with mud and had no visible blood staining
The third part was a whole sleeve and sleeve cuff, grubby with mud with no visible blood staining.
There was significant damage to the garment but it was not possible to say whether the damage had been caused while it was being worn.
Logan’s DNA was found in the garment but no matches were found linking it to the three defendants.
Prosecution closes cases in Logan Mwangi murder trial
Online and BBM:
[I copied this from cholo's post upthread]
Forensics
Forensic examination of Logan’s discarded dinosaur pyjama top revealed it had been torn into three parts.
The first part was the back of the garment including the collar, which was grubby with mud and had no visible blood staining.
The second part was most of the front of the garment and collar, which was grubby with mud and had no visible blood staining
The third part was a whole sleeve and sleeve cuff, grubby with mud with no visible blood staining.
There was significant damage to the garment but it was not possible to say whether the damage had been caused while it was being worn.
Logan’s DNA was found in the garment but no matches were found linking it to the three defendants.
Prosecution closes cases in Logan Mwangi murder trial
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This case is on my mind so much especially as I don't live too far away (though not in Bridgend) and my children stay with their dad there pretty regularly.
One thought I've had (and I might have totally forgotten some evidence that makes this thought impossible) is that was Logan really dead when left at the river? The defendants have lied so much and (I think?) we only have JC's word for it that he was.
What if Logan was taken to the river unconscious but alive. They may have hoped a passer by would find him and they could have put whatever plan they'd concocted into motion eg blaming someone else. When JC said in his first police interview that he carried Logan in his arms - I think/IMO this was the truth because he probably hadn't been shown the CCTV so admitted it. The bin bags and later Nike bag story came IMO after he knew what the CCTV showed, how detailed it was, and how he could manipulate the story in line with that.
So then I think - if he had carried Logan to the river in his arms then it could only have been with the thought in mind that they wanted him to be found. Maybe they knew he needed hospital treatment desperately but couldn't be the ones to phone an ambulance as they had caused the injuries (IMO).
I just get the feeling that there is something missing. The defendants are covering for each other but dropping each other in it on other things. They are all (IMO) involved in the attempted cover up, the evidence tells that truth even if they themselves don't.
Sorry if this is jumbled - hopefully I managed to make some kind of point!
One thought I've had (and I might have totally forgotten some evidence that makes this thought impossible) is that was Logan really dead when left at the river? The defendants have lied so much and (I think?) we only have JC's word for it that he was.
What if Logan was taken to the river unconscious but alive. They may have hoped a passer by would find him and they could have put whatever plan they'd concocted into motion eg blaming someone else. When JC said in his first police interview that he carried Logan in his arms - I think/IMO this was the truth because he probably hadn't been shown the CCTV so admitted it. The bin bags and later Nike bag story came IMO after he knew what the CCTV showed, how detailed it was, and how he could manipulate the story in line with that.
So then I think - if he had carried Logan to the river in his arms then it could only have been with the thought in mind that they wanted him to be found. Maybe they knew he needed hospital treatment desperately but couldn't be the ones to phone an ambulance as they had caused the injuries (IMO).
I just get the feeling that there is something missing. The defendants are covering for each other but dropping each other in it on other things. They are all (IMO) involved in the attempted cover up, the evidence tells that truth even if they themselves don't.
Sorry if this is jumbled - hopefully I managed to make some kind of point!
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katydid23
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So there are two differing versions of events, concerning how the torn pajama top ended up out in the dirt.
JC says that AW told him to take it out and dump it, after he returned home from disposing of Logan's body.
AW says she was fast asleep, so JC must have done that on his own.
So which of the ^^^ above scenarios sounds more credible?
Did JC and the youthful offender return home, and see the torn pj top, and decide to go back out and dispose of it?
Or did AW hand it to them and insist they go back out?
It is interesting and kind of surprising that there is no blood on the pj top. He had a head wound and there was blood on the mattress. How did it get taken off over his head with out getting blood on it? Did that top have snaps on it?
JC says that AW told him to take it out and dump it, after he returned home from disposing of Logan's body.
AW says she was fast asleep, so JC must have done that on his own.
So which of the ^^^ above scenarios sounds more credible?
Did JC and the youthful offender return home, and see the torn pj top, and decide to go back out and dispose of it?
Or did AW hand it to them and insist they go back out?
It is interesting and kind of surprising that there is no blood on the pj top. He had a head wound and there was blood on the mattress. How did it get taken off over his head with out getting blood on it? Did that top have snaps on it?
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I wonder what happened to the second sleeve. It also stated most of the front,so a piece was missing.
We do not know the style of the pyjamas or the material they were made from or how old . Thin ,well washed cotton might be torn more easily than some other materials.
It also seems strange it had Logan's DNA, but none from the three defendants. If it had been washed ,would Logan's DNA be still there?
If not washed, I would have thought that someone else's would also be there,whoever dressed/undressed him and whoever tore the pyjama top.
Alyce
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There may have been one specific injury, from one person, that caused his death but that hasn't been reported from the trial. It’s possible it was the combination of several injuries. Regardless, they were all involved in attacking Logan, at various levels and they can all be found equally guilty of murder.
MOO
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This isn't snobbery before anyone accuses me, it's because I've lived a similarly low income lifestyle for many years... they may have been relying on the cheapest possible clothing. I don't know what shops there are in that area (I've been out of the UK a long time) but when mine were little it was Matalan, George at ASDA, that sort of thing. They're worn out after a few washes.
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