UK- Major incident declared in Southport after multiple stabbings, 29 July 2024

[Yellowbelly]

I wouldn't look for precise motive.

It might be the attacker doesn't know it himself.

It is probably a mixture of
rage, feeling of unfulfillment, disappointment, failure, some kind of injustice,
etc, etc.

Plus MH issues
probably not treated.

JMO

I suspect something like this may well turn out to be the case. Unresolved mental health issues leading to the sort of intense paranoia which in countries with more ready access to firearms leads to school shootings.

Being a British person of a certain age, this tragedy reminds me of the Dunblane massacre. We are looking for connections between the attacker and the victims, but perhaps there aren't any. Thomas Hamilton had no connection to the school, the staff or the pupils. He shot himself and didn't leave a note so we don't know precisely why he did it, but it seems that his sense of victimhood and paranoia were so intense that killing a primary school class was his way of taking revenge on the local 'establishment'.

Thankfully the attacker here has been taken alive, so the police should be able to find out what has led up to this, and it should be revealed at the subsequent trial.

Dunblane massacre - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[jackal67]

I totally agree. I think the perpetrator is the only one at fault ,not the fact that the adults left a door open.

Of course the perpetrator was at fault but lessons will have to be learned from this horrendous episode unfortunately
I am not blaming anyone for the door being left open but sadly the world we live in is just not safe and children need to be protected all costs
If this had occurred at a school or registered childcare setting it may well result in criminal charges if protocol wasn't followed correctly MOO

 

[Dotta]

"Protesters barricaded themselves down a side street, dragging bins from a pub and industrial unit to provide more missiles to throw at police.

Others turned on a nearby mosque, throwing bricks through the windows, and later, as darkness fell, one group of men ripped up a driveway to arm themselves with stones to throw at police, while across the road, another group tried to force entry to a corner shop.

As darkness fell, smaller groups dispersed and roamed the streets, setting fires in the road. Residents’ walls and fences were pulled down; the bricks used as missiles, and the wooden panels added to the fire."

Keir Starmer says Southport rioters will feel ‘full force of the law’

Far-right protesters threw bricks at officers, set vehicles on fire and attacked mosque

www.theguardian.com

 

[Inthedetails]

But who targets 8 yr old little girls? What could she possibly have done to him?

Who would target innocent little kids? A young man obsessed with little girls and/or Taylor Swift continues to be my theory.

I think he knew about the event not because it randomly appeared on his social media feed, but because he notices where little girls are in his area.

I think he hated is own obsessions so the objects of his fantasies had to be punished.

Armchair analysis, worth what you paid for it.

I'm unfamiliar with how things work in UK during an investigation - will info be released to the public or do they hold it all until trial??

jmo

 

[jackal67]

Last thing this community needed.

Thought EDL was banned and illegal now?

 

[iamshadow21]

Thought EDL was banned and illegal now?

And how is that enforceable? Biker gangs are hard enough to prosecute, and they have clubhouses and ride around with clearly identifiable patches on their jackets. Racists just look like everyone else until they hurl a brick through the window of a mosque, Sikh temple or synagogue, and it's easy enough for them all to be internet pals through online encrypted social media, never gathering in person until they want to commit a violent act like the one yesterday.

MOO

 

[Grouse]

The only details released about the suspect by police described him as a 17-year-old from the village of Banks in Lancashire who was born in Cardiff.

RSBM.

There has been a little bit about his ethnic background reported as well.

"The BBC understands the teenager, who cannot be named for legal reasons, moved to the Southport area in 2013. His parents are from Rwanda and he has an older brother also born in Cardiff.

Helen, a neighbour of the family while they lived in Cardiff, has spoken of her shock, and said the family had come from Rwanda."

Southport stabbings - what we know so far about knife attack

 

[iamshadow21]

Who would target innocent little kids? A young man obsessed with little girls and/or Taylor Swift continues to be my theory.

I think he knew about the event not because it randomly appeared on his social media feed, but because he notices where little girls are in his area.

I think he hated is own obsessions so the objects of his fantasies had to be punished.

Armchair analysis, worth what you paid for it.

I'm unfamiliar with how things work in UK during an investigation - will info be released to the public or do they hold it all until trial??

jmo

I think it was probably less specific. He wanted a soft target with maximum casualties, so he chose an event he knew was most likely to be attended by young kids, mainly girls (not that it matters, really, at that age, a kid can't fight off an armed adult) and young women parents and teachers.

He didn't want somewhere where he might meet a man his own size, or someone trained to take down an armed attacker, so no mixed events like you'd get at a more general sports day, and no outdoor public events that might have a uniformed police presence patrolling.

Even so, a survivor was able to flee and get help from a passing man who was able to help to detain him.

MOO

 

[Alyce]

Who would target innocent little kids? A young man obsessed with little girls and/or Taylor Swift continues to be my theory.

I think he knew about the event not because it randomly appeared on his social media feed, but because he notices where little girls are in his area.

I think he hated is own obsessions so the objects of his fantasies had to be punished.

Armchair analysis, worth what you paid for it.

I'm unfamiliar with how things work in UK during an investigation - will info be released to the public or do they hold it all until trial??

jmo

If the police use the full 96 hour questioning time, then they have until Friday ( probably midday-ish ) to either
Charge him
Release him
Release with bail

assuming charges will be brought, there will then be a date given for a PTP
( pre trial preparation hearing ) in 3 months time. Plus a tentative trial date, approx 6 months or later.

At that point we wont hear anything further until the PTP, when he will be able to enter a plea.

 

[Inthedetails]

If the police use the full 96 hour questioning time, then they have until Friday ( probably midday-ish ) to either
Charge him
Release him
Release with bail

assuming charges will be brought, there will then be a date given for a PTP
( pre trial preparation hearing ) in 3 months time. Plus a tentative trial date, approx 6 months or later.

At that point we wont hear anything further until the PTP, when he will be able to enter a plea.

Thank you!

 

[sidsloth]

Unfortunately though I suspect there will likely be a H & S investigation . There are many safeguarding rules around children and settings that children attend. and Parents may well be wanting answers too ?

I'm sure there will be an investigation which will then inform a change in regulations for clubs and settings such as this, but currently there isn't and it's really not unusual to prop a door open in the warm weather. The regulations state that risks must be reasonably identified and managed, no one prior to Monday would have considered an armed man walking into a children's club and doing this- rightly or wrongly but it simply hasn't happened here before like this. Dunblane was obviously in a school and many changes were made to safety regulations and procedures for schools and other ofsted registered settings, Ariana was in a public place which prompted a review of procedures regarding that so its not like things happen followed by a tonne of ignorance and arrogance. Obviously with hindsights its different but we have been fortunate i guess that its not something that would reasonably cross someones mind. The propped open door wasn't even the only access point, whilst it may or may not have made it easier, I doubt anyone would blame two women who risked their own lives to protect these girls and of whom had a tonne of experience working with children between them for this what was an unprecedented event- but I do agree there will likely be a review.

 

[Rikissa]

They all need to be arrested and hammered in court. And their leader needs to be hauled back from whatever country he's scurried off to, as i have no doubt that he's instigated it.

To me these thugs, or hooligans, that attacked the mosque seems to have the same mindset as those British football hooligans back in the 1970s, 1980s and so on. They are after the fights, and why they fight don't really matter, the reason has changed, but the fighting goes on. Back then it was "support their team", now it's xenophobia, "against those who don't look/speak/believe as we". It would be interesting to know how many of those involved in the attacks in Southport are the sons and/or grandsons of those football hooligans back in the 1970s and 1980s.
I looked up the leader of the EDL on Wikipedia, and interestingly one of his alias is taken from the name of a prominent football hooligan.

(I know football hooliganism still exist, both in the UK and other parts of Europe, but now the fights are often prearranged, and set out of sight, seldom as public as they were 40 or 50 years ago. The same xenophobia also exists in other European countries, as well as in other parts of the world.)

 

[iamshadow21]

If the police use the full 96 hour questioning time, then they have until Friday ( probably midday-ish ) to either
Charge him
Release him
Release with bail

assuming charges will be brought, there will then be a date given for a PTP
( pre trial preparation hearing ) in 3 months time. Plus a tentative trial date, approx 6 months or later.

At that point we wont hear anything further until the PTP, when he will be able to enter a plea.

I really hope he does not qualify for bail.

I don't see how he could, but I didn't see how folks who dismembered someone in New York could, either, and that happened.

MOO

 

[sidsloth]

And how is that enforceable? Biker gangs are hard enough to prosecute, and they have clubhouses and ride around with clearly identifiable patches on their jackets. Racists just look like everyone else until they hurl a brick through the window of a mosque, Sikh temple or synagogue, and it's easy enough for them all to be internet pals through online encrypted social media, never gathering in person until they want to commit a violent act like the one yesterday.

MOO

The thing is the organisation itself is disbanded and defunct, people with this ideology and beliefs haven't simply disappeared, they've openly 'joined' or aligned with other groups, of which the media don't seem to be mentioning. Whilst they keep mentioning EDL it means the focus is off of addressing the current groups and individuals that are supporting this. JMO, but I'm sceptical of the medias motives for this.

 

[jackal67]

And how is that enforceable? Biker gangs are hard enough to prosecute, and they have clubhouses and ride around with clearly identifiable patches on their jackets. Racists just look like everyone else until they hurl a brick through the window of a mosque, Sikh temple or synagogue, and it's easy enough for them all to be internet pals through online encrypted social media, never gathering in person until they want to commit a violent act like the one yesterday.

MOO

I am not saying it is enforceable But the media have a responsibility to report correct information.

 

[iamshadow21]

I'm sure there will be an investigation which will then inform a change in regulations for clubs and settings such as this, but currently there isn't and it's really not unusual to prop a door open in the warm weather. The regulations state that risks must be reasonably identified and managed, no one prior to Monday would have considered an armed man walking into a children's club and doing this- rightly or wrongly but it simply hasn't happened here before like this. Dunblane was obviously in a school and many changes were made to safety regulations and procedures for schools and other ofsted registered settings, Ariana was in a public place which prompted a review of procedures regarding that so its not like things happen followed by a tonne of ignorance and arrogance. Obviously with hindsights its different but we have been fortunate i guess that its not something that would reasonably cross someones mind. The propped open door wasn't even the only access point, whilst it may or may not have made it easier, I doubt anyone would blame two women who risked their own lives to protect these girls and of whom had a tonne of experience working with children between them for this what was an unprecedented event- but I do agree there will likely be a review.

Also, this was possibly a one off event, with the organisers hiring the studio space. My yoga studio does this. A special event with people running it who aren't the usual yoga teachers, doing a meditation workshop or sound healing workshop or whatever.

This seems like the same kind of thing. A school holiday event that isn't part of the regular routine of whatever goes on in that studio week in week out - mums and bubs yoga, seniors aerobics, whatever.

I don't know what the temporary class teachers have to sign. I assume they have to be certified okay to work with kids, know where the emergency exits are, and are possibly under the building's insurance or have their own... But it might be a bit more vague because it's a one off.

MOO

 

[dotr]

Southport latest: Farage accused of 'ramping up hatred' before 'sickening' violence

Nigel Farage has been accused of "whipping up the crowd" in Southport last night by the husband of murdered MP Jo Cox. More than 50 police officers were injured in the "sustained and vicious attack", believed to have been instigated by EDL supporters after Monday's stabbings.

news.sky.com

''Mother of victim condemns violence​

The mother of one of the young girls killed in Monday's stabbing attack condemned the violence in Southport last night.
Elsie Dot Stancombe's mother, Jenni, wrote on Facebook last night: "This is the only thing that I will write, but please please stop the violence in Southport tonight.
"The police have been nothing but heroic these last 24 hours and they and we don't need this."
Elsie, seven, Alice Dasilva Aguiar, nine, and Bebe King, six, died in the attack. ''

Elsie Dot Stancombe

https://www.facebook.com/sharer/sharer.php?u=https://news.sky.com/story/southport-stabbing-latest-number-of-casualties-after-reports-of-stabbing-13186819?postid=8050701#liveblog-body&t=Mother of victim condemns violence

 

[Inthedetails]

I really hope he does not qualify for bail.

I don't see how he could, but I didn't see how folks who dismembered someone in New York could, either, and that happened.

MOO

Well, the folks in NY aren't charged with dismemberment or murder but with tampering of evidence and concealing a body. Those are still serious crimes, but it's they haven't been charged with murder (yet).

In this case, I think for the perp's safety, he's better off remaining behind bars. (Not that I feel sorry for him, to be clear.)

jmo

 

[jackal67]

To me these thugs, or hooligans, that attacked the mosque seems to have the same mindset as those British football hooligans back in the 1970s, 1980s and so on. They are after the fights, and why they fight don't really matter, the reason has changed, but the fighting goes on. Back then it was "support their team", now it's xenophobia, "against those who don't look/speak/believe as we". It would be interesting to know how many of those involved in the attacks in Southport are the sons and/or grandsons of those football hooligans back in the 1970s and 1980s.
I looked up the leader of the EDL on Wikipedia, and interestingly one of his alias is taken from the name of a prominent football hooligan.

(I know football hooliganism still exist, both in the UK and other parts of Europe, but now the fights are often prearranged, and set out of sight, seldom as public as they were 40 or 50 years ago. The same xenophobia also exists in other European countries, as well as in other parts of the world.)

Lot of racism in Football too.

 

[JennieM]

RSBM.

There has been a little bit about his ethnic background reported as well.

"The BBC understands the teenager, who cannot be named for legal reasons, moved to the Southport area in 2013. His parents are from Rwanda and he has an older brother also born in Cardiff.

Helen, a neighbour of the family while they lived in Cardiff, has spoken of her shock, and said the family had come from Rwanda."

Southport stabbings - what we know so far about knife attack

That related to the first reporting by credible media.