UK UK - Manchester, 'Angel of the Meadow' WhtFem Skeletal, 16-30, buried, Jan'10

[pokerowan]

Five minutes away from where Angel's body was found, is a Church, St Michael's. Adjoining the church back in the 70's was a hostel for alcoholic homeless men called the Morning Star. Did Angel meet her fate there before she was moved to Miller Street? There must be a register of the residents of the time, and a staff registry. I recall there were a couple of deaths there at the hostel back in the day, about the same time as the stated timeline for Angel. Very close. Could possibly be related. Could be a serial killer whose DNA isnt on the database.

It depends if you assume the carpet came from her murderer's car. I'm not sure a lot of homeless English people would have owned a car in the 60s and 70s.

 

[Oriana]

It depends if you assume the carpet came from her murderer's car. I'm not sure a lot of homeless English people would have owned a car in the 60s and 70s.

It could be someone who worked there, not necessarily a resident. Someone above suspicion who had access to the homeless and vulnerable because of the nature of their work. The carpet Angel was wrapped in could have been found dumped nearby, the area was kind of rundown back then with lots of fly tipping. I personally dont see anyone ripping the carpet out of their own car, that wouldn't be so easy to do, or easily replaced. Jmo.

 

[pokerowan]

It could be someone who worked there, not necessarily a resident. Someone above suspicion who had access to the homeless and vulnerable because of the nature of their work. The carpet Angel was wrapped in could have been found dumped nearby, the area was kind of rundown back then with lots of fly tipping. I personally dont see anyone ripping the carpet out of their own car, that wouldn't be so easy to do, or easily replaced. Jmo.

An employee with access is a great point!

Ripping out your own vehicle's carpet and dumping it is an easier task than getting blood stains removed, though. Throwing it away entirely may have been a better option, if she was killed or transported in the car.

 

[Oriana]

I'm assuming there's DNA somewhere amongst the items found, since the police have ruled out possible suspects? That DNA isn't on their database either obviously. I remember that locale back in the mid 70's, and I'm assuming the timeline as to the killing by the clothing worn by Angel, pinafore, ribbed polo neck jumper beneath and heeled court shoes, that was a popular look then, I wore it myself. I would often cut through that area on my way to and from work. There were some small crofts, or to be more descriptive, wasteland with small lit bonfires, with homeless and drunks sat around them, they would call out as you walked by hurriedly, it was really that bad. A slum area really. I was with a friend once, and as we hurried towards the main road in the darkness she remarked to me "Oh my god I hope we dont end up here, or at the Morning Star, a guy died there, just recently they refused to let him in because it was a minute past the deadline, and the poor man froze to death on the doorstep." It turned out the guy in charge of the hostel had refused to open the door despite the pleas of the dead man, and he was found frozen to the spot the following morning in the doorway. That story has always stayed with me, because it frightened me. When I heard of the body being found on the carpark a short distance away like 5 minutes, literally around the corner, I immediately thought of the Morning Star and thought that guy in there who let the poor man freeze to death probably did that too. I put the two together, dont know why. Probably because they were so close.

 

[othram]

Whether they can identify a suspect or not, it would at least be nice to give this woman her identity back. The Facebook post that @Al Ka wrote, says that there were 400 rule outs?!

 

[Al Ka]

I'm assuming there's DNA somewhere amongst the items found, since the police have ruled out possible suspects? That DNA isn't on their database either obviously. I remember that locale back in the mid 70's, and I'm assuming the timeline as to the killing by the clothing worn by Angel, pinafore, ribbed polo neck jumper beneath and heeled court shoes, that was a popular look then, I wore it myself. I would often cut through that area on my way to and from work. There were some small crofts, or to be more descriptive, wasteland with small lit bonfires, with homeless and drunks sat around them, they would call out as you walked by hurriedly, it was really that bad. A slum area really. I was with a friend once, and as we hurried towards the main road in the darkness she remarked to me "Oh my god I hope we dont end up here, or at the Morning Star, a guy died there, just recently they refused to let him in because it was a minute past the deadline, and the poor man froze to death on the doorstep." It turned out the guy in charge of the hostel had refused to open the door despite the pleas of the dead man, and he was found frozen to the spot the following morning in the doorway. That story has always stayed with me, because it frightened me. When I heard of the body being found on the carpark a short distance away like 5 minutes, literally around the corner, I immediately thought of the Morning Star and thought that guy in there who let the poor man freeze to death probably did that too. I put the two together, dont know why. Probably because they were so close.

Oriana, welcome to Websleuths. It is really nice to hear from someone who knew area back at the time. You, or your friends, would not have some old photos of the area by any chance? I would love to see them.

I am also interested to find any photos, especially those showing any part of fence along the Angel Street. Old photo from 1966 which I managed to find over the years is showing really simple fence. In google photos from 2008 fence is very tall and was clearly changed at some point.

I could not find any other photos in between those years (1966-2008), but if we could find out in which year or multiple years fence was changed, in my humble opinion it could possibly narrow down the years and slightly narrow down the timeframe when she was abandoned there. There is no way she would not be discovered by someone while whole fence was being taken away and than replaced, if she was already there.

If anyone has any idea how to go about to find out those fence information and also manage to find any extra photos, please feel free to share it here. I have to say that over the years I joined and searched multiple Manchester Historic sites and Fb pages/groups to find that info but so far to no avail.

 

[ChatteringBirds]

May this case be solved in 2021 or 2022.
I am amazed it sounds like her alleged murderer's DNA was somehow still viable on her body (ETA fingernails?) (?). I keep thinking, how could that be, after decades, outdoors?

 

[pokerowan]

@Al Ka - it may be worth looking up something like 'Manchester through the ages' books online. I had one for the last town I stayed in with a lot of 20th century photographs, it's very common to see those 'how things used to be' photography memoirs in local shops. It might even be useful looking up old postcards of the area too! I know a fair deal tend to float around eBay.

 

[Oriana]

Oriana, welcome to Websleuths. It is really nice to hear from someone who knew area back at the time. You, or your friends, would not have some old photos of the area by any chance? I would love to see them.

I am also interested to find any photos, especially those showing any part of fence along the Angel Street. Old photo from 1966 which I managed to find over the years is showing really simple fence. In google photos from 2008 fence is very tall and was clearly changed at some point.

I could not find any other photos in between those years (1966-2008), but if we could find out in which year or multiple years fence was changed, in my humble opinion it could possibly narrow down the years and slightly narrow down the timeframe when she was abandoned there. There is no way she would not be discovered by someone while whole fence was being taken away and than replaced, if she was already there.

If anyone has any idea how to go about to find out those fence information and also manage to find any extra photos, please feel free to share it here. I have to say that over the years I joined and searched multiple Manchester Historic sites and Fb pages/groups to find that info but so far to no avail.

View attachment 300726

Oriana, welcome to Websleuths. It is really nice to hear from someone who knew area back at the time. You, or your friends, would not have some old photos of the area by any chance? I would love to see them.

I am also interested to find any photos, especially those showing any part of fence along the Angel Street. Old photo from 1966 which I managed to find over the years is showing really simple fence. In google photos from 2008 fence is very tall and was clearly changed at some point.

I could not find any other photos in between those years (1966-2008), but if we could find out in which year or multiple years fence was changed, in my humble opinion it could possibly narrow down the years and slightly narrow down the timeframe when she was abandoned there. There is no way she would not be discovered by someone while whole fence was being taken away and than replaced, if she was already there.

If anyone has any idea how to go about to find out those fence information and also manage to find any extra photos, please feel free to share it here. I have to say that over the years


Al Ka Thank you for your welcome.
I can't help with information for the fencing issue unfortunately. A friend of mine that worked at a pub on Angel St, recalls how small children used to play on the carpark before Angel was discovered. I will ask her. She may have some recollection. However there was a homeless hostel for women on Corporation Street a short walk away called Ashton House, it was less than 5 minutes on foot. I am not sure if it was in use in the 70s, but I am in the mind it could well have been used to accommodate homeless women temporarily. I have heard that behind Ashton House was another lodging house for "working ladies" positively known about in the late 50's, I suppose it's entirely possible that these cheap lodgings were run by the local authorities and were open in the 70's. It is possible in that case that Angel was staying at one of these places if that is the case. The Morning Star Hostel for homeless men - (there it is again) - was only a couple of minutes away by foot too, I have a strong feeling about that place.

I'll put a link to Ashton House below this post in a separate post.

 

[Oriana]

Al Ka Thank you for your welcome.
I can't help with information for the fencing issue unfortunately. A friend of mine that worked at a pub on Angel St, recalls how small children used to play on the carpark before Angel was discovered. I will ask her. She may have some recollection. However there was a homeless hostel for women on Corporation Street a short walk away called Ashton House, it was less than 5 minutes on foot. I am not sure if it was in use in the 70s, but I am in the mind it could well have been used to accommodate homeless women temporarily. I have heard that behind Ashton House was another lodging house for "working ladies" positively known about in the late 50's, I suppose it's entirely possible that these cheap lodgings were run by the local authorities and were open in the 70's. It is possible in that case that Angel was staying at one of these places if that is the case. The Morning Star Hostel for homeless men - (there it is again) - was only a couple of minutes away by foot too, I have a strong feeling about that place.

I'll put a link to Ashton House below this post in a separate post.

 

[Oriana]

https://manchesterhistory.net/manchester/tours/tour16/area16page6.html

 

[Oriana]

Roof Of MCR: Taking Pics On The CIS Tower

 

[Oriana]

If you scroll down to photo 10 of the above link, you can clearly see the triangular shaped roof top end of Ashton House, from the roof of the CIS building on Angel Square. The car park at Miller Street was situated opposite the CIS and was clearly visible from the upper windows that overlooked it.

 

[ChatteringBirds]

Bumping up for Angel of the Meadow.

 

[dotr]

Lengthy, rbbm.

Angel of the Meadow

In 2010, skeletal remains of a murdered (and likely assaulted) woman were found in Manchester, UK. Will the UK permit advanced DNA testing to identify her?

dnasolves.com

''Forensic facial reconstruction of the “Angel of the Meadow” developed by a Dundee University team led by Dr. Caroline Wilkinson.
In 2011, a facial reconstruction was developed to generate leads to the woman’s identity. In parallel, DNA testing was used to rule-out more than 400 missing women. To this date, there has been no genetic match and her facial reconstruction has not produced leads to her identity. In 2015, the “Angel of the Meadow” was laid to rest in an unmarked grave.

It is usually at this point in the story that I would tell you about how my company, Othram , got involved in the case. We routinely develop advanced DNA profiles from evidence (especially older skeletal remains) that has failed testing with other methods or has been deemed “unsuitable” by other labs. To give you an idea of what “older” might be, we helped NCMEC solve their oldest announced case: a girl who drowned in a hotel pool in 1966. Before that we helped BODE Technology and the Porchlight Project identify a woman who died in 1881.

Unfortunately, this is a different kind of story. There is no ending and the “Angel of the Meadow” remains unidentified, not because of scientific limitation but because the UK is still working to develop a position on genealogical search for law enforcement investigations . Much like in the United States, there are so many unidentified victims in the UK and much like in the United States, these unidentified persons will often not be identified using traditional forensic testing alone. The UK allows “familial search”, but these comparisons are based on STRs. They utilize very few markers and can generally only detect an exact match, parent-child relationship, or sibling relationship. Investigators compared 400 missing persons without a match and this is a time-consuming and costly venture. I can only hope that in the future, there will be a chance to deploy modern DNA testing to help identify this woman and connect her back to family. In the meantime, we teamed up with online advocate Al Ka and the Othram team helped fund a proper headstone for this unknown woman. The headstone was completed just recently, this year.

 

[Bit of hope]

In the meantime, we teamed up with online advocate Al Ka and the Othram team helped fund a proper headstone for this unknown woman. The headstone was completed just recently, this year.

YESSS! You did it! Wonderful news.

 

[ChatteringBirds]

YESSS! You did it! Wonderful news.

But, if I read this correctly, Othram must wait before attempting to identify her, for legal reasons. If so, I hope the UK will allow more in-depth testing for their UIDs very soon. Sadly there does seem to be some barriers to this in Europe overall, JMO.

 

[Bit of hope]

But, if I read this correctly, Othram must wait before attempting to identify her, for legal reasons. If so, I hope the UK will allow more in-depth testing for their UIDs very soon. Sadly there does seem to be some barriers to this in Europe overall, JMO.

It's about the head stone.

 

[ChatteringBirds]

It's about the head stone.

Sorry, yes, that is truly wonderful.

 

[ZaZara]

Lengthy, rbbm.

Angel of the Meadow

In 2010, skeletal remains of a murdered (and likely assaulted) woman were found in Manchester, UK. Will the UK permit advanced DNA testing to identify her?

dnasolves.com

View attachment 368259
View attachment 368258

''Forensic facial reconstruction of the “Angel of the Meadow” developed by a Dundee University team led by Dr. Caroline Wilkinson.
In 2011, a facial reconstruction was developed to generate leads to the woman’s identity. In parallel, DNA testing was used to rule-out more than 400 missing women. To this date, there has been no genetic match and her facial reconstruction has not produced leads to her identity. In 2015, the “Angel of the Meadow” was laid to rest in an unmarked grave.

It is usually at this point in the story that I would tell you about how my company, Othram , got involved in the case. We routinely develop advanced DNA profiles from evidence (especially older skeletal remains) that has failed testing with other methods or has been deemed “unsuitable” by other labs. To give you an idea of what “older” might be, we helped NCMEC solve their oldest announced case: a girl who drowned in a hotel pool in 1966. Before that we helped BODE Technology and the Porchlight Project identify a woman who died in 1881.

Unfortunately, this is a different kind of story. There is no ending and the “Angel of the Meadow” remains unidentified, not because of scientific limitation but because the UK is still working to develop a position on genealogical search for law enforcement investigations . Much like in the United States, there are so many unidentified victims in the UK and much like in the United States, these unidentified persons will often not be identified using traditional forensic testing alone. The UK allows “familial search”, but these comparisons are based on STRs. They utilize very few markers and can generally only detect an exact match, parent-child relationship, or sibling relationship. Investigators compared 400 missing persons without a match and this is a time-consuming and costly venture. I can only hope that in the future, there will be a chance to deploy modern DNA testing to help identify this woman and connect her back to family. In the meantime, we teamed up with online advocate Al Ka and the Othram team helped fund a proper headstone for this unknown woman. The headstone was completed just recently, this year.

Well done @Al Ka and @othram!

Beautiful headstone, and enough space left to add her name. The message comes across loud and clear.