Deceased/Not Found UK - Margaret Fleming, 19, Inverclyde, Scotland, 17 Dec 1999 *Guilty*

[Taskforce88]

This is what I don't understand, it should be easy to prove they're lying. Lack of DNA, witness statements etc. I know in English law the police can arrest and interrogate "with reasonable suspicion", is Scotland more like America i.e. more proof is needed?

I'm chucking this link it again, as I think all UK members who sleuth US cases should read it. The arrest laws are significantly different and this article sums it up nicely:

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_..._is_being_arrested_different_in_britain_.html

And thank you too, Taskforce, for being our feet on the ground this time. I'm sure someone else is local too?

No problem

I fully expect the carers to be questioned under caution shortly. They will want to get A to go against E.

 

[Taskforce88]

In Scotland an arrest can be made:

"The police can arrest you if they have a valid arrest warrant. A warrant will state the grounds for arrest.

They also have a power to arrest you without a warrant if you are:

1. In the act of committing a crime, or
2. Accused by an apparently credible witness of being seen committing a crime, or
3. Seen running away from the scene of a crime pursued by others, or
4. Threatening danger to the public, or
5. Causing an offence to public decency."

If they have reasonable suspicion they can detain you and question you under caution.

They can only charge you if they have enough evidence to do so.

Much the same as the rest of the UK.

 

[Taskforce88]

On the point of evidence the law in Scotland requires a certain level of evidence before a charge. The law was changed regarding domestic abuse to the point where if you are accused you are automatically arrested, charged and put before a judge as soon as possible. Before it was at the discretion of the officers investigating.

A friend of mine was wrongly accused by his ex partner and it caused a few months of misery. Its not popular among the legal profession either.

 

[Taskforce88]

[FONT=&quot]Cairney said: “She came with a bag and left with the same bag. There’s wee bits of ornaments and stuff but I don’t know what’s hers and what’s not.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]“We’ve been told repeatedly we’re not suspects but if we weren’t, they wouldn’t have dug our garden up.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]"I would fight Goliath but I would never harm a wee kid. I’ve been spat on, I’ve been kicked in the supermarket. Margaret is avoiding us, she’s not missing.”[/FONT]

 

[Ironside]

They said she left with a satchel so we are meant to believe MF packed up all her worldly goods into a small satchel? I mean I'm into minimalism but fitting everything into a small bag seems a bit unbelievable.


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[Taskforce88]

They said she left with a satchel so we are meant to believe MF packed up all her worldly goods into a small satchel? I mean I'm into minimalism but fitting everything into a small bag seems a bit unbelievable.


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So she had the satchel with her when they visited Wemyss Bay? She just happened to pack everything up incase the police just happened to visit. Because according to their story she didn't have time to get back into the house, on their way back she seen the police and ran.

Their story isn't adding up at all.

"This is where Margaret slept"

Police: "No DNA of hers on the bed. No DNA of Margaret anywhere in the house"

Proof of life test has not been passed.

 

[Taskforce88]

I would love to know what the neighbours have to say about all this

 

[CoverMeCagney]

So she had the satchel with her when they visited Wemyss Bay? She just happened to pack everything up incase the police just happened to visit. Because according to their story she didn't have time to get back into the house, on their way back she seen the police and ran.

Their story isn't adding up at all.

"This is where Margaret slept"

Police: "No DNA of hers on the bed. No DNA of Margaret anywhere in the house"

Proof of life test has not been passed.

Have the police actually said there's no DNA in the house?

 

[Taskforce88]

Have the police actually said there's no DNA in the house?

I thought I had read that somewhere, possibly not. I seem to remember reading about the fact there was no evidence of her living there recently.

 

[jiminy]

The house was such a pigsty that it'd be an impossible task to collect DNA, I would reckon.

This is incredibly tricky legally. While the story being told is clearly inconsistent and totally unbelievable, it's not for the carers to prove they didn't harm Margaret or that she's still alive, it's for the police and the PF to prove someone harmed her.

 

[Legally Bland]

Sorry if I've missed this and it's already been posted.

Eddie Cairney, 75, and Avril Jones, 56, have sold the house near Inverkip to developers for £120,000 after a court ruled it unfit for habitation and they intend to leave today.

[...]

Cairney, a former deep-sea diver and hotelier, said: “We’re out of here by Tuesday. The council have made the developer promise not to let us on the site after that, which is a bit strange.

“They’ve effectively dictated the price we got for this by chasing off developers they don’t like. One offered us £230,000 for the house and ground. But the council told him they would oppose his plans.

“I’m an extremely unpopular person with the council. At one time I was the biggest landowner in the centre of Greenock and I had a land dispute and beat them in court.

“They’ve got to fence in the whole site. I’ve got no idea why they would do that.”

http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/...dle_of_missing_woman_to_move_out_of_her_home/

He doesn't know why they would fence in a demolition / construction site?

Biggest landowner in the centre of Greenock?

 

[Taskforce88]

Cairney, a former deep-sea diver and hotelier, said:

“We’re out of here by Tuesday. The council have made the developer promise not to let us on the site after that, which is a bit strange."

“They’ve effectively dictated the price we got for this by chasing off developers they don’t like". One offered us £230,000 for the house and ground. But the council told him they would oppose his plans.

They are most likely going to have a good look underneath the house.

 

[CoverMeCagney]

I think they will be looking very carefully when the house is demolished. However, and this is my opinion only, I think Cairney took her out to sea. After almost two decades it's highly unlikely she'd be found even if they knew where to look. Best hope is some kind of incriminating evidence bricked up a chimney or something.

 

[Taskforce88]

I think they will be looking very carefully when the house is demolished. However, and this is my opinion only, I think Cairney took her out to sea. After almost two decades it's highly unlikely she'd be found even if they knew where to look. Best hope is some kind of incriminating evidence bricked up a chimney or something.

Possibly far out at sea. The police did a search along the coast but it is unlikely he would have put her there since that stretch of coastline is very popular with divers searching old wrecks.

 

[CoverMeCagney]

Possibly far out at sea. The police did a search along the coast but it is unlikely he would have put her there since that stretch of coastline is very popular with divers searching old wrecks.

Agreed. Hence his confidence / cockiness.

C'mon, Avril, do the right thing...

 

[Satchie]

I'm sure police will be checking whether he had his own boat. Deep sea divers usually work for oil companies, etc, who supply the boat and all the gear, so just cause he'd been a diver in his youth doesn't mean he was a competent boater. I also wonder how long he was diving, he may well have given it up after he turned to other work, it's dangerous and hard work. You have to maintain your fitness and training, the equipment has to be maintained by professionals, and it's rarely something you would do alone, it's just so dangerous.

 

[Taskforce88]

I'm sure police will be checking whether he had his own boat. Deep sea divers usually work for oil companies, etc, who supply the boat and all the gear, so just cause he'd been a diver in his youth doesn't mean he was a competent boater. I also wonder how long he was diving, he may well have given it up after he turned to other work, it's dangerous and hard work. You have to maintain your fitness and training, the equipment has to be maintained by professionals, and it's rarely something you would do alone, it's just so dangerous.

According to the media he worked at HMNB Clyde (Faslane) naval base, not sure if he was employed as a diver, however Faslane/Coulport isn't 'deep sea', although he may have just been based there and dived out for deeper operations as a civilian contractor.

Inverkip marina is just along the road, its possible he could have had his own boat or access to one.

 

[CoverMeCagney]

I'm sure I recall a boat / little pier / something boaty at the bottom of the garden by the sea.

 

[Taskforce88]

There is always lots of little boats at anchor next to the house. He could have had a small boat tied up there.

 

[Legally Bland]

You can see the bottom of the garden here.

From video of drone footage of the search.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/video/ne...ge-reveals-scale-search-Margaret-Fleming.html