GUILTY UK - Mikaeel Kular, 3, Edinburgh, Scotland, 15 Jan 2014 - #2

[Thespyma]

I do not think that it would have been possible for Mikaeel to have been hidden from the other children for any length of time.

Had he genuinely had a cold which then turned into a chest infection i would have thought that she would have taken him to the doctors or asked for her mother, who is a GP, to visit.
Perhaps she did and it has not been reported in the media for some reason.

If he was not ill then she must have other reasons for not sending him to nursery school-either visible injuries or something he might say to his teachers.I think I read that his twin sister did attend school.

Does anyone else who has children or experience being around them on a daily basis think that Mikaeel looks sick with something so severe he must miss school? I have never had sick kids look that healthy and yet need to miss school. A child with a severe lung infection will not be so healthy looking as Mikaeel does in the photos. Either the photos were taken LONG before he was ill (and it was stated he was ill even before Christmas) or he was never ill and that story is a cover made up by his mum.:twocents:

 

[sar2them1984]

eta I've just seen that Alyce got in before me saying similar things, but I'll keep my post here!

The teenaged witness might just be mistaken. Depending on the distance, it could have been one of the brothers playing with the twin. If he had back to the window, she might just have assumed it was Mikaeel, if she could clearly see his twin sister.

I don't think she is lying, if anything she might just be getting the days mixed up or the children mixed up.

However, she could well be correct. I guess lots of people are just assuming he'd been deceased for longer because he didn't go to nursery. There could be other reasons for that - such as he really was ill, or his mum couldn't be bothered to get him there after having a couple of weeks off over Christmas and wasn't back into her normal routine. Or obviously something more sinister like he had visible injuries she didn't want anyone to see.

I imagine the police know an awful lot more than has been made public - those children would have been questioned as thoroughly as possible, and in a way where they don't think they are getting their mum into trouble.

I'm trying to steer away from taking notice of anything the neighbours say. No offense to them but theres been so many contradictory statements given to the press by them.

They lived there for 5yrs vs they'd lived there for 18 months

The other children played on the stairs/outside yet Mikaeel didn't vs He was regularly playing with his siblings outside their home

He hasn't been seen by neighbours since Christmas vs he was seen on the Monday

Also, I'm not sure if this has been touched upon. I'll keep it vague but did either Mikaeel or his sister have any kind of learning disability? Jw

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[floridamomma]

Does anyone else who has children or experience being around them on a daily basis think that Mikaeel looks sick with something so severe he must miss school? I have never had sick kids look that healthy and yet need to miss school. A child with a severe lung infection will not be so healthy looking as Mikaeel does in the photos. Either the photos were taken LONG before he was ill (and it was stated he was ill even before Christmas) or he was never ill and that story is a cover made up by his mum.:twocents:

I have five kids, spent years running a home day care, and now have grands. that boy didn't appear sick, to me.

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[YidArmyRach]

I have five kids, spent years running a home day care, and now have grands. that boy didn't appear sick, to me.

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I don't think he looks ill. I don't think he was ill. I'm not convinced (so far) of long-term, deliberate neglect.

Until the police come out with more details, I'm still thinking of accident due to him being unsupervised, or ingesting something he shouldn't have ... and mother panicking due to being known to Social Services, and having already lost custody of the twins.

The days and days of missing nursery are still puzzling me though - unless any of the above happened a lot earlier than when he was reported missing.

Just my opinion.

 

[Inge Jones]

No he doesn't look sick to me either. But we know so few details it might simply have been something mild but contageous that the nursery do not allow. It's probably something that wouldn't seem odd *except* in the light of his death. Other parents are always making odd decisions we wouldn't make for our own kids, even without there being anything sinister, so it may or may not be relevant.

 

[greengables]

Also, I'm not sure if this has been touched upon. I'll keep it vague but did either Mikaeel or his sister have any kind of learning disability? Jw

I did wonder the same thing, it does tend to happen more with twins than with single births.

 

[MsFacetious]

There are plenty of times when I wouldn't take my kids out but they aren't that sick.
I home school, but here there are regulations for when you can send them back.
I don't know if there are regulations at the twins nursery or not.

They send them home for pink eye here because it's so contagious.
You keep them home until 24-48 hours of antibiotics, 24-48 hours fever free, vomit free, rash free etc.
Then you can send them back to school.

It's one of the reasons my children are home schooled, because when they get sick they stay sick.
My kids were sick for a solid 3 months and had they been in school would have missed that whole time.
They just kept getting things one right after another. It happens. :sigh:

 

[sar2them1984]

I did wonder the same thing, it does tend to happen more with twins than with single births.

I wondered from the outset as he has similar physical traits to some of the people I work with who have learning disabilities. Also those from pakistani/bangladeshi heritage are more likely to be born with a disability. Add to that he was a twin and in many cases one twin has some sort of learning disability or development delay (not necessarily long term). Jw cos it could open up a whole range of scenarios but then again im thinking we would have heard if this was the case

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[Thespyma]

It was a genuine question. I can speculate loads but if it's not allowed then I'd rather not be banned.

I wasn't thinking that he was ill, I was thinking he was already dead and did say that it would be either ironic or bizarre.

(BBM) I was thinking that too based on some posts elsewhere which are not gone with the wind and thus cannot be talked about here...

 

[SnoopyDoobyDoo]

While not a hundred percent certainty, I'm inclined to believe the neighbour did see M on Sunday/Monday. I find it incredibly unllikely that mum could hide M's death from his siblings for days or weeks, and it sounds like the police were able to quickly and definitively ID M's body- not that there was likely to be more than one little body out there, but it seems they confirmed it was him pretty quickly, which suggests to me that they weren't having to rely on dentals/DNA/fingerprints being processed and (gruesome as it sounds) decomposition likely wasn't very advanced in that case.


I don't buy that this was an accident of neglect (illness, accident caused by poor supervision), because I don't know of a single case where that is true. Parents call for help in those cases. It's the more active abuse monsters that try to cover it up.

 

[Lolacat]

While not a hundred percent certainty, I'm inclined to believe the neighbour did see M on Sunday/Monday. I find it incredibly unllikely that mum could hide M's death from his siblings for days or weeks, and it sounds like the police were able to quickly and definitively ID M's body- not that there was likely to be more than one little body out there, but it seems they confirmed it was him pretty quickly, which suggests to me that they weren't having to rely on dentals/DNA/fingerprints being processed and (gruesome as it sounds) decomposition likely wasn't very advanced in that case.


I don't buy that this was an accident of neglect (illness, accident caused by poor supervision), because I don't know of a single case where that is true. Parents call for help in those cases. It's the more active abuse monsters that try to cover it up.

I completely agree. If you *accidently* killed your child then the natural reaction for any parent would be to call for help to see if they could be revived. You would be utterly distraught. I dont buy that you would have the presence of mind to hide the body and then act to everyone around you that things are fine and THEN put on an appropriate display of distress for the police the next day. To me, that involves a significant amount of planning and premeditation. Not to mention emotional detachment. JMO.

 

[onthecounter]

I think that if she didn't have four other children to look after, she would have done a Casey Anthony and just moved around partying and lying to people for as long as she could get away with.

 

[floridamomma]

ok... random thought. my three yr old climbed into my lap this afternoon, all warm and rosy cheeks. it didn't take long for me to shove a thermometer into his ear. yeah, slight fever. but, I got to thinking... little m is dark skinned, so those rosy cheeks might not show up life they do on my little Irish babe.... kwim?

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[Bluey]

I wondered from the outset as he has similar physical traits to some of the people I work with who have learning disabilities. Also those from pakistani/bangladeshi heritage are more likely to be born with a disability. Add to that he was a twin and in many cases one twin has some sort of learning disability or development delay (not necessarily long term). Jw cos it could open up a whole range of scenarios but then again im thinking we would have heard if this was the case

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I think we would have heard if he had a learning disability or something similar. I think that information would have been included in the original missing person appeals.

I do remember the police saying that he was a good communicator, and a friendly, normal child.

It was thought to have been possible he could've put on his coat and shoes, and managed to get out of the building on his own aswell.

So it doesn't sound to me as though he had a learning disability.

 

[zwiebel]

Ugh. Way back in the thread I mentioned how my friend's daughter shut her little brother in a suitcase for fun and he didn't make a sound when people searched for him, and I hoped they'd checked that in the home....

He was found in good time, but it stuck in my mind as I remember her mum telling her off because he could have suffocated.

 

[iamnotagolem]

Every case it never fails that there is the hope that the child died of an accident and the parent(s) made it look like murder. Yet it never happens. It's so sad that so many parents kill their children.

 

[zwiebel]

It says in this article Mikaeel's father spoke to police earlier in the week, but hasn't been involved with the family for several years. I always thinks of several as being six or seven, with anything under that 'a few'. But Mikaeel was only three.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukn...old-Mikaeel-Kular-charged-over-his-death.html

 

[zwiebel]

I do think something must have happened Tuesday or Wednesday, some pressure that led directly to Rosdeep reporting Mikaeel missing Thursday. It may have been a family member or boyfriend asking too many questions, or maybe it could have been the school. After a certain period of being absent, would a parent be required to produce a doctor's note for sickness?

Mmm. School's not compulsory for three year olds though.

Probably just gearing herself up to making the missing report. Hence all the inspirational instagrams. I don't think much thought could have gone into this - an abduction or wandered off scenario would have been much more believable with a broken door or window, and easy to arrange.

 

[Skigh]

I do think something must have happened Tuesday or Wednesday, some pressure that led directly to Rosdeep reporting Mikaeel missing Thursday. It may have been a family member or boyfriend asking too many questions, or maybe it could have been the school. After a certain period of being absent, would a parent be required to produce a doctor's note for sickness?

Mmm. School's not compulsory for three year olds though.

Probably just gearing herself up to making the missing report. Hence all the inspirational instagrams. I don't think much thought could have gone into this - an abduction or wandered off scenario would have been much more believable with a broken door or window, and easy to arrange.

I do not think it would be easy to stage an abduction as it was a flat with windows upstairs and the entrance door was a security door with cctv.


The older children would also be ask questions about where Mikaeel was.

 

[sar2them1984]

I think we would have heard if he had a learning disability or something similar. I think that information would have been included in the original missing person appeals.

I do remember the police saying that he was a good communicator, and a friendly, normal child.

It was thought to have been possible he could've put on his coat and shoes, and managed to get out of the building on his own aswell.

So it doesn't sound to me as though he had a learning disability.

Good point. Twas just a thought

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