GUILTY UK - Mikaeel Kular, 3, Edinburgh, Scotland, 15 Jan 2014 - #3

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laurauk1 said:
I'm not sure if this is the same in Scotland though. Perhaps someone can confirm, although I didn't know this in England until a recent personal experience led me to learn this.
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Scotland allows charge downgrades even during the trial, according to the government website I linked.

In some cases, an accused may be charged initially with murder but Crown Counsel may decide that the evidence does not support a murder charge. The accused will then be tried on a charge of culpable homicide or, possibly another charge such as assault. Changes like this can also happen during the trial.

VIA [Victim Information and Advice] will advise you about any changes like this. Where possible, you will be given the reasons for a change to the original charge. It may not always be possible to give you a full explanation at the time the decision is made - in some cases this is because it might cause problems in bringing the case to trial.
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Does anyone know the name of the mobile beauty and massage business?
 
haden said:
To me 'murder' means she had her hands in his death.. like hitting him etc.. but to be honest after looking at her instagram and her dating profile this is very hard for me to believe!
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I'm sure you'll know this for yourself, but you really can't judge by photos.

Remember Vincent Tabak? By all accounts he was perfectly normal and nice, his family could not believe for a minute he was involved because he'd always seemed such a nice boy.

Remember, all of Rosdeep's photos were chosen and put out there by her. They portray a certain image/story that everything looks perfect but appearances can be deceptive. The most sinister people in society often are wolves in sheep's clothing.

I'm not saying this is necessarily the case here, but it's always worth keeping in mind.
 
Iplem said:
I'm sure you'll know this for yourself, but you really can't judge by photos.

Remember Vincent Tabak? By all accounts he was perfectly normal and nice, his family could not believe for a minute he was involved because he'd always seemed such a nice boy.

Remember, all of Rosedeep's photos were chosen and put out there by her. Appearances can be very deceptive. The most sinister people in society often are wolves in sheep's clothing.

I'm saying this is necessarily the case here, but it's worth keeping in mind.
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I never had any doubts about Vincent Tabak, I felt he was guilty.. and for example I never suspected Joanna Yeate's boyfriend, or her landlord.
In here it is obvious that the mother did hide the body and did lie to the police and probably is responsible for Mikaeels death but I don't see her as 'killing him intentionally', that last bit for me is very hard to believe..
 
Daily mail have got some good photos. Intriguing. Especially the soco with the huge brown paper bag. Wonder whats inside

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haden said:
I never had any doubts about Vincent Tabak, I felt he was guilty.. and for example I never suspected Joanna Yeate's boyfriend, or her landlord.
In here it is obvious that the mother did hide the body and did lie to the police and probably is responsible for Mikaeels death but I don't see her as 'killing him intentionally', that last bit for me is very hard to believe..
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I know what you mean, I don't know, we'll just have to wait and see. I'm the opposite to you, I had very bad vibes about her right from the start, but vibes count for nothing, we won't know the truth for months.
 
Iplem said:
Has there been another case where one child out of several siblings has been singled out and killed?

I wonder if she was suffering from some delusions/mental illness that made her hate just the one child?

Seems very weird.
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Lots of IFs in this post - IF Mikaeel was singled out and IF his mother killed him, I'm wondering if this is similar to the Sky Metalwala case... IF we go with the most popular assumption in that case then Sky's mother disappeared him because he was the mini version of his father, whereas their older daughter not so much. I'm wondering whether in this case little Mikaeel reminded his mother of his absent father and his twin sister less so. The older boys had a different and more present father. My opinion only.
 
Whilst we all have our opinions it certainly does feel a little like trial by social media. All we have to go on is social media profiles which she herself set up possibly to portray a certain persona to her friends. I too am responsible for basing my thoughts soely on the sm profiles because that is all we have! We have never seen her give am interview or had the chance to view her general demeanour. We are purely going on a bunch of photos which can be viewed in any number of ways!! None of us really know what the children and her life was like. Yes, we know social services were involved but we don't know why. It necessarily doesn't mean that she was a bad mother. There are a number of reasons why they could be involved.

I guess im just frustrated that we are all basing our theories and thoughts on a number of superficial facts which are open to interpretation. JMO


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In England, the CPS will often go in with the highest possible charge at the beginning, even if there would not be enough evidence for someone to be convicted on this charge beyond responsible doubt, at that stage. The idea is that often charges will get downgraded and so by going in as high as they can, they won't be downgraded too much. Charges can be downgraded anytime up to the trial day, based upon the actual evidence that comes about. So for example, if further down the line the Prosecution put the case together and realise they haven't got enough for a jury to convict beyond reasonable doubt for murder, they will change the charges to something lesser that they do have enough evidence for.

I'm not sure if this is the same in ScotlAnd though. Perhaps someone can confirm, although I didn't know this in England until a recent personal experience led me to learn this.
 
sar2them1984 said:
Daily mail have got some good photos. Intriguing. Especially the soco with the huge brown paper bag. Wonder whats inside

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if u look where hes holding it, looks like either a mirror with a bevelled edge or a headboard .. not sure if u could manage either with one hand
 
sar2them1984 said:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...yle-Mikaeels-mother-called-dancing-queen.html
Couple of days old but a few tidbits I'd not seen before

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Here is another link.

Its hard to believe they are talking about the same person/family.

‘They used to run about outside but never did we hear them cry. They were always smiling. Mikaeel was always just playing around the back door, where his mother was sat, or he would sit on the step beside her. And then they would be running about.........'They always stayed where mummy was. They were no bother. They were just normal children. In the house, you would sometimes see them at the window and if granny came up, you’d see their little noses above the window ledge.
‘The twin sister is now without her brother. It is so sad. It is very upsetting knowing this happened to such a cheery little boy.’


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...sing-toddler-Mikaeel-Kular.html#ixzz2qxzq62RX
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook
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Local resident Khalida Hussain, 30, said: ‘I saw the wee boy a week before Christmas. He was always with his brothers and sisters, they seemed very close. They were happy.
‘If you opened the car door they would all come running up to you. It’s such a shame. I haven’t been able to sleep I’ve been so upset.’ A man called Wes who works for parcel carrier Yodel said he had delivered gifts to Rosdeep Kular’s home and always thought the children seemed bright and happy.


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...sing-toddler-Mikaeel-Kular.html#ixzz2qy0MoMCS
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook
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JanIreland said:
Some of worst parents i know are all over social media posting pictures of their kids ...talking pictures of the "good times" does not a good Mother make .
This women who was well known by child services who actually was dodging them . Managed to go out loads ,living life of a single women .Her child however it happened was murdered and she disposed of his body and lied about it while leaving hundreds search. This is not your average "Mother"
As hard as it is too grasp ...some people have a different make up to us .
I find it hard to believe people are making the same excuse Casey Antony used ...he died and she in a panic , dumped him ....come on . As a mother it's unbelievable as an excuse
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I completely agree. Regardless of all the social media stuff (and I haven't even looked at it), look at her actions alone. His body was dumped away from his home and she lied to police about him missing. She must have also lied to her children. She then put on act in front of police and pretended to be upset/worried about him being missing. In my mind, those are the actions of someone with an incredible degree of emotional detachment towards their own child. If she has been charged with his murder then presumably the court will now have to decide whether it was accidental or premeditated. I would also put very little credence in what neighbours report. Look at how many serial killers have been described by their neighbours as "a nice, polite man- kept himself to himself" etc.. Can anyone say they really truly know their neighbours and what goes on behind their doors?
 
Iplem said:
It's strange though, why would one child out of five be murdered?

If she'd lost her temper, and taken it too far but didn't mean to kill him, would that still be murder?

Has there been another case where one child out of several siblings has been singled out and killed?

I wonder if she was suffering from some delusions/mental illness that made her hate just the one child?

Seems very weird.

I really hope it doesn't come out that she had a history of abusing him/them and social services didn't do their jobs.
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Maybe she thought she'd get a reality T V series out of it.
 
Iplem said:
It's strange though, why would one child out of five be murdered?

If she'd lost her temper, and taken it too far but didn't mean to kill him, would that still be murder?

Has there been another case where one child out of several siblings has been singled out and killed?

I wonder if she was suffering from some delusions/mental illness that made her hate just the one child?

Seems very weird.

I really hope it doesn't come out that she had a history of abusing him/them and social services didn't do their jobs.
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I was watching a recent episode of "deadly women" on the ID channel and I had to turn it off as it was so upsetting. They were profiling a case where a mother and her husband abused and neglected just 2 of their 4 children. The remaining 2 were treated normally and properly but for some reason one little boy and one little girl were locked in a room and denied food or water. It was horrible. The ID program said that in cases of neglect and abuse, it is actually quite common for only one particular child to be singled out for that kind of horrific treatment. Now, I am NOT saying that I think neglect of that kind was happening in this case but the act of singling out one child or being disappointed/angry/overly harsh on one child is not that uncommon.
 
Maybe she's got the double personality?
I once had a neighbour who one would describe as one of the nicest person on Earth and later he did most terrible things - now I always think he's be on a Crimewatch, if he was still alive..
 
Lolacat said:
I completely agree. Regardless of all the social media stuff (and I haven't even looked at it), look at her actions alone. His body was dumped away from his home and she lied to police about him missing. She must have also lied to her children. She then put on act in front of police and pretended to be upset/worried about him being missing. In my mind, those are the actions of someone with an incredible degree of emotional detachment towards their own child. If she has been charged with his murder then presumably the court will now have to decide whether it was accidental or premeditated. I would also put very little credence in what neighbours report. Look at how many serial killers have been described by their neighbours as "a nice, polite man- kept himself to himself" etc.. Can anyone say they really truly know their neighbours and what goes on behind their doors?
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Agree completely with that, and Jan that you quoted.
 
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