Found Deceased UK - Nicola Bulley, 45, last seen walking her dog on footpath by the river, Inskip, Lancashire, 27 Jan 2023

[Officer Dibble]

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But perhaps one that she felt like listening into, keeping a-breast of things in the office.

She'd only worked for that mortgage company since Feb 2022, so less that a year.

I know someone who has a mixture of Teams meetings and some are exactly as she did - listen but not be visible or heard.

 

[Officer Dibble]

Always unclip the lead from the harness and leave the harness on, ready for easy attachment when she needs to be back on the lead. Even when she’s swimming, the harness is on. The telltale would be whether the harness claps were locked or open. Open it was taken off by the owner, locked the dog slipped loose

Yes my dog would swim in a deep lake surrounded by trees and tree roots and his harness would get attached to the roots in the water - really dangerous. Plus if it was a decent harness they take ages to dry out and get smelly from the water. So yes, take the harness off if dog possibly going to go in the water .

 

[Officer Dibble]

It also means the caravan park owner found the dog, didn’t really check around too much for NB (as the phone wasn’t found) took the dog to the SCHOOL, who then called PA. Who instead of thinking, oh the dogs managed to pull a fast one, I’d best go get her and give NB a ring let her know I’ve found her, calls the police, who instead of telling him to go look for his own girlfriend because finding the dog loose doesn’t mean much of anything, go to the river and find her phone.

All of that sounds… asinine.

I had a similar thought. It could of course be just the way the media is writing it. But it did raise a red flag for me too. JMO MOO

 

[Officer Dibble]

I think what happened was she knew whose dog it was (knew NB) and contacted the school as she knew they'd have contact details for NB's partner, so presumably she did not have his number or would have rung him direct?

Edit: in fact, without having spotted the stuff on the bench, I'd have thought in that situation there's no reason to assume NB was even nearby (at least after calling out for her), and it would probably appear that the dog had run off from somewhere else?

I wonder if the dog had a habit of running off? JMO MOO

 

[Officer Dibble]

It seems 'some people' have the harness off as per usual when in that area.

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=pfbid02X7absq1AQmJajjStJ41J35fyprGrtxWui41ph6i11puFt3Uukqrs3RehaWp2kb3Kl&id=6149699161

Going over it now, my thoughts have changed again. NB lets dog off, sits down on bench, engages in the phone, then maybe suddenly she sees the dog attracted by a bird on the water or something and is about to go after it, she calls it back but doesn't pay attention, so puts down phone, dashes to river edge, in so doing slips on the wet mud and grass and goes in, is dragged down by weight of clothes and can't get a purchase on anything to pull her up, meanwhile dog scampers back and waits near bench for her.

plus her short wellies would fill with water too. Edited to add JMO MOO

 

[WhoIsThatGuy]

Further to my earlier post, we only know that her dog was spotted around 10.15am so any false trail being laid could in theory have happened within a 90 minute period. But if it transpires NB was not a victim of falling into the river- and we can assume the surrounding woodland has been well searched- then it's hard to see how any person involved in foul play would have the ability to remove her effectively from the scene and then take the chance of returning there with a dog laying a false trail.

Until NB is definitively proven to have been there at the bench, on the dog walk or in the surrounding woodland with the dog (different to the dog being present and found there with the phone) and until it is definitively proven it was actually NB who logged on to the team meeting zoom call thing, then I assume she was not there to start with. If that is the case, any person involved in foul play would not have the problem of having to remove her as she was not there to begin with.

 

[geddis]

I agree; when I said 'the scene' I was assuming that NB being in the school car park shortly before 9am had been confirmed by her children and possibly other parents. So in the event of foul play someone had to remove her from that place, do her harm, then return with the dog and telephone in order to drag a red herring across the case of a missing person. All in around 90 minutes.

 

[Loobyloo]

From The Sun article

A friend who runs a local caravan park raised the alarm when they spotted the family’s brown springer spaniel Willow running free.

The pet was near to a bench under a tree, which has a sign warning of deep water nailed to it.

The friend contacted the school and staff called engineer Paul, who dialled 999. Cops arrived at the scene around 10.30am and found Nicola’s mobile phone on the bench with her work call still active, along with Willow’s leash.


So this friend found the dog near the bench, but didn’t find the phone or the leash (which were on the bench) until the police showed up? Am I reading that right?

Perhaps the friend spotted the dog running around, from the caravan park (which is near the river) but didn't actually go to the spot in person. That would make sense of the dog & phone etc. being found by different people at different times.

 

[WhoIsThatGuy]

I agree; when I said 'the scene' I was assuming that NB being in the school car park shortly before 9am had been confirmed by her children and possibly other parents. So in the event of foul play someone had to remove her from that place, do her harm, then return with the dog and telephone in order to drag a red herring across the case of a missing person. All in around 90 minutes.

Reading back through the thread, social media, online news posts and police statements there seems to be a bit of conjecture as to who actually dropped the children off at school. At this point I don't think it is confirmed either way.

 

[Lass from Yorkshire]

I do think she is in the river, although I hope and pray that isn’t the case.

I log on to webex calls all the time without sound or video when there is a large audience. Also, how would someone else know to attend the call in her place if we’re saying we don’t know it was her on the call?

I can’t imagine how she has got in the river but I think there is a heartbreaking update headed our way.

Just my opinion of course..

 

[WhoIsThatGuy]

I do think she is in the river, although I hope and pray that isn’t the case.

I log on to webex calls all the time without sound or video when there is a large audience. Also, how would someone else know to attend the call in her place if we’re saying we don’t know it was her on the call?

I can’t imagine how she has got in the river but I think there is a heartbreaking update headed our way.

Just my opinion of course..

At 9:01am NB logs on to the work team meeting call thing.

Her phone and dog lead found at the bench. Dog found between bench and river.

Dog is dry.

No sign of struggle or slip.

No sign of attack or abduction.

No sign of NB dead or alive in river or surrounding area in proceeding 5 days.

NB was as likely sucked into the sky by an alien spaceship as she was to have ended up in the river or to have been there at all in the first place.

Hypothetically, if NB never logs onto that team call thing, how does that change the shape and course of this investigation?

The fact she logs on at 9:01am, isn't seen or heard on the call, and as far as we know at this point, isn't seen or heard from again, is a massive red flag, red herring and rings all types of alarm bells for me.

Police need solid verification that she was there at all, dash cam footage, door came footage or CCTV footage, a solid witness or two.

 

[Lass from Yorkshire]

At 9:01am NB logs on to the work team meeting call thing.

Her phone and dog lead found at the bench. Dog found between bench and river.

Dog is dry.

No sign of struggle or slip.

No sign of attack or abduction.

No sign of NB dead or alive in river or surrounding area in proceeding 5 days.

NB was as likely sucked into the sky by an alien spaceship as she was to have ended up in the river or to have been there at all in the first place.

Hypothetically, if NB never logs onto that team call thing, how does that change the shape and course of this investigation?

The fact she logs on at 9:01am, isn't seen or heard on the call, and as far as we know at this point, isn't seen or heard from again, is a massive red flag, red herring and rings all types of alarm bells for me.

Police need solid verification that she was there at all, dash cam footage, door came footage or CCTV footage, a solid witness or two.

Not being seen or heard on the call isn’t a red flag IMO, as I said I do this all the time.

 

[MoiraRose]

Not being seen or heard on the call isn’t a red flag IMO, as I said I do this all the time.

It is if it’s the only thing placing her at the scene. Also, at the very least it’s usual to say hello at the start of a meeting, so it strikes me as unusual if she didn’t.

 

[ShireChe]

It is if it’s the only thing placing her at the scene. Also, at the very least it’s usual to say hello at the start of a meeting, so it strikes me as unusual if she didn’t.

It all depends what kind of teams/zoom meeting it was. We have company wide meetings involving about 50 people which is basically an update on how things are going. Only one person speaks. Everyone else is on mute and I'd say camera on/off ratio is about 50%.

You would hope by now the police have been in touch with the company and would know if this is the sort of meeting where contribution would be expected or if NB would normally have camera on etc

ETA: I'm still struck by the police declaring they don't think any sort of crime has happened. That's quite a bold statement unless they have some sort of evidence to lead that way. Normally you'd get something like 'we are exploring all/any options for what may have happened' .

If they were doing this (as some have suggested earlier) in order to not let on anything to a potential suspect, then it's a hugely risky strategy given it's crucial to get as much info as possible in the first few days before people start to forget crucial things they may have seen/heard

 

[Kassanddra]

I'd have tried to call her at least, getting an engaged tone, whilst she was on the conf call probably would have reassured me she was OK too.

It she was on Teams or Zoom call it wouldn’t be engaged though.

I wouldn’t have phoned 999 immediately either. Would have gone down there myself assuming partner is running around looking for dog nearby.

 

[Furore]

Haven’t been on this website in a while, hello all excellent sleuthers. As a dog walker this case has concerned me.

With respect to teams, I always join muted and camera off without a hello! Then I can eat my breakfast…would have been easy for police to check with employees if this is typical for Nicola on team meeting calls. I’ve even walked the dog during a meeting myself!

Being near the water I do personally find drowning the most convincing. People completely underestimate how easy it is to get into trouble in cold water - see guidance below about hazards of cold water swimming and information about panic responses entering cold water (even in strong swimmers), and even hidden heart conditions that can become problematic swimming - link to this below also.

Cold Water Hazards and Safety

Cold Water Can Be Dangerous​

Warm air doesn’t always mean warm water in lakes, streams or oceans. Fifty five degree water may not sound very cold, but it can be deadly. Plunging into cold water of any temperature becomes dangerous if you aren’t prepared for what the sudden exposure can do to your body and brain. Warm air temperatures can create a false sense of security for boaters and beach goers, so if you are planning to be on or near the water, arrive knowing the conditions and how to protect yourself. Cold water drains body heat up to 4 times faster than cold air. When your body hits cold water, “cold shock” can cause dramatic changes in breathing, heart rate and blood pressure. The sudden gasp and rapid breathing alone creates a greater risk of drowning even for confident swimmers in calm waters. In rougher open water this danger increases.

Unexplained Drownings and the Cardiac Channelopathies: A Molecular Autopsy Series

OBJECTIVE: To determine the prevalence and spectrum of mutations associated with long QT syndrome (LQTS) and catecholaminergic polymorphic ventricular tachycardia (CPVT) in a seemingly unexplained drowning cohort.PATIENTS AND METHODS: From September 1, ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

CONCLUSION: Nearly 30% of the victims of swimming-related drowning hosted a cardiac channel mutation. Genetic testing should be considered in the postmortem evaluation of an unexplained drowning, especially if a positive personal or family history is elicited.

In terms of not finding a body, it’s possible perhaps it could be tangled in weeds or swept further than expected - JMO! Also when I went cold water swimming in January - in a wetsuit, I stayed five mins and was shocked how hard it is physically to swim with cold muscles, and I’m a good swimmer and it was calm water - my own experience only.

My thoughts on police saying they just feel she is missing at the moment are that either trying to throw off the scent (jmo) or they know more either about her mental health, domestic situation or eve plans to meet someone?? Bizarre but possible. Have to be honest, her seeming an attractive woman out alone did ring alarm bells for me personally in terms of foul play.

Very very sad for her family and especially children, living nightmare.

 

[Dpdan]

If she logged into the call at 9.01 and last confirmed sighting was 9.15, was this sighting by the people in the meeting online? As they hadn't yet found the fluffy dog walker witness so can't have known what time he saw her. Maybe her camera was on while she was getting to the bench. It seems everything happened in a very short space of time.

 

[Firstsnow4]

It also means the caravan park owner found the dog, didn’t really check around too much for NB (as the phone wasn’t found) took the dog to the SCHOOL, who then called PA. Who instead of thinking, oh the dogs managed to pull a fast one, I’d best go get her and give NB a ring let her know I’ve found her, calls the police, who instead of telling him to go look for his own girlfriend because finding the dog loose doesn’t mean much of anything, go to the river and find her phone.

All of that sounds… asinine.

I’m guessing that this camping site is the Devine Camping Pods that I spoke about earlier. Doing a bit of sleuthing you can see who owns and runs them and that one of them is friends with NB on social media.

 

[Villa1]

What if the dog was initially tied to the bench by the lead, could it eventually in time get out the harness by backing up on it? I have never owned a dog so I don’t have this answer.

Yes this could totally happen . I am a dog owner and have had my dogs come out of the harness when for what ever reason they didn't want to go forward ,normally spooked by something . I would imagine a dog if tied up would be very distressed if the owner walked away or was walked away by force .

 

[Firstsnow4]

I’m guessing that this camping site is the Devine Camping Pods that I spoke about earlier. Doing a bit of sleuthing you can see who owns and runs them and that one of them is friends with NB on social media.

I am still leaning towards foul play. And now I think it’s more likely that it was someone local who knew Nicola. I think it highly unlikely she was kidnapped into a car because there isnt really anywhere near that spot that a car could feasibly get close enough. But say it was someone she knew who came over to her quickly and said in an emergency I need your help - perhaps she tied the dog to the bench, put her phone down quickly and ran off to help. Then something untoward happened. As I say it would have to be someone local that lived/worked in nearby premises. JMO.

Edited to add - could have been someone she knew saying something was wrong with the girls at the school or something similar (an emergency) feigning an issue, in order to get her to leave quickly without a thought. Then smuggle her into a car/property. Just speculation.