Found Deceased UK - Nicola Bulley Last Seen Walking Dog Near River - St Michaels on Wyre (Lancashire) #2

[BDL1960]

I don't get the sense they are holding much back. They don't usually rule out the possibility of a third party so quickly if they know more than they're letting on. I think they are trying to walk a tightrope here of maximising publicity without causing widespread anxiety. I suspect they would have expected to have found her by now. The massive media coverage will now be putting them under a great deal of pressure.

This is now front page news on three of the tabloids (Mirror, Mail and Express). The media feeding frenzy will now drive a lot of local activity and there will be criticism of any slip ups or omissions on the part of the police. This is now day 6 and we would normally expect some developments one way or another.

 

[slowpoke]

They went on to say that the dog walker spotted Nicola's canine pet as she came through a fate onto the towpath but became suspicious when she saw the harness and lead being dragged on the floor. The friend added: "The gent has looked on the floor and two feet from the bench there’s a phone.

Nicola Bulley spotted 'laughing and joking' moments before she vanished

The reporting on the phone and dog lead and harness is all over the place, isn’t it. In this article, it says the harness and lead were “being dragged“, but how can it be dragged by the dog if the harness is off? Isn’t the lead usually attached to the harness? I wonder if it instead meant a retractable dog lead was dragging? I saw one photo where there seemed to be one of those kinds of leads being used on Willow.

 

[BDL1960]

Nicola Bulley spotted 'laughing and joking' moments before she vanished

The reporting on the phone and dog lead and harness is all over the place, isn’t it. In this article, it says the harness and lead were “being dragged“, but how can it be dragged by the dog if the harness is off? Isn’t the lead usually attached to the harness? I wonder if it instead meant a retractable dog lead was dragging? I saw one photo where there seemed to be one of those kinds of leads being used on Willow.

Agreed. I'm still not clear on this point. Also you don't normally take off a dog's harness until you get home unless there was a reason.
LancPol need a comprehensive press briefing to clarify exactly what happened prior to Nicola's sudden disappearance.

 

[Coach]

Someone was asking earlier as to how far it is from the bench to the caravan park. Had a look at various maps and measurements and it looks like a 3 minute walk. There are three parks. From what I can see on the online mapping, all three are within a few minutes of the bench.

 

[kittythehare]

This is now front page news on three of the tabloids (Mirror, Mail and Express). The media feeding frenzy will now drive a lot of local activity and there will be criticism of any slip ups or omissions on the part of the police. This is now day 6 and we would normally expect some developments one way or another.

It's been 5 days.

Sure we would all love to hear that she was temporarily kidnapped and is alive and will be rescued but we're not conducting this investigation.

What I'm seeing so far is a thoroughly professional police force doing everything they can on a visible level, co-ordinating multiple searches a stellar SAR operation using all kinds of specialists, equipment, drones, personnel, the works.
They are going all out here.

And that's not even to touch upon the massive investigation they are conducting, obtaining phone records, not a fast process, interviewing probably hundreds of people, manning a tip line for a high priority case, harvesting probably thousands of hours of CCTV footage, dash cam footage, liaising with families, friends and all who are moved by her status.

And if it is a thing that they suspect a third party is involved it is a far better thing they do by not going public and possibly alerting a suspect and maybe endangering others as a result.

We don't need to know why they say they do not suspect a third party.

We are not entitled to this information.

Even families do not get this information at this stage of an investigation.

I know I want for her to be alive and I want to bend reality to my liking.
I can hope and I can speculate and I can grasp at straws to my hearts content in that regard and sometimes others share my feelings .

Victim First.

She gets priority and she gets that respect.

For all anybody knows that scene, the tiny area around the bench was processed last Friday morning and subsequently released.

JMO

 

[Telltale]

Which part of the bank is sloping in the photo? I don't see anything to hold onto, do you?

Is 'no current or flow' fact or a guess?

View attachment 399418

https://www.blackpoolgazette.co.uk/...skip-mum-entered-its-fifth-day-4008800?page=3

Daily Mail

There are several photos of people wading very close to the bend with the bench. You can see in this drone footage that they are literally walking to boat up the river. It's not exactly where she would have gone in but it is only half a bend downstream. Even if hypothetically it was significantly deeper around the spot by the bench, she wouldn't have had to drift far to be able to just stand up. (Or many places a body wouldn't be pretty immediately obvious even from a standard drone, you can see a lot of the bottom.)

Also, imo, there is plenty to hang on to. Tough grass, small trees, even if she really could not touch the bottom by the bank (which seems highly doubtful) there is enough to hold herself in place and pull herself out. If she couldn't pull herself out and for some reason she couldn't hold herself in place and shout for help, there would be evidence of her trying to.

Imo she would have to put her phone on the bench, have a medical episode, get knocked clean out (or be really determined to drown herself,) end up in the water, which is not as close as some pictures suggest and is down a slope, without leaving marks on the bank. Plus that bend of river would have to be twice the depth of all the other parts which appear to be hardly knee height in the middle and the banks. Then wash into some hidden spot that an exhaustive search of the river, which started within hours of her disappearance failed to find her.

And her water loving dog would have to not jump in after her, or get wet, nobody spot her in the mean time and she didn't loose an ankle wellie in the mud/water.

It seems less and less likely tbh. It seems it would be hard to drown at all in that part of the river as a conscious adult, let alone loose a body in it.

 

[Loobyloo]

I don’t remember the Libbey Squires case at all sadly, Was it given as much media attention as NB’s would you say? Was the alert to the public for a missing person made as rapidly as NB? I am trying to understand why this horrible incident has gotten so big and has founds itself being talked about nationally when realistically people go missing each week under similar circumstances yet it’s rarely as well documented as this? When someone is missing due to foul play yes it’s a big story but by all accounts that’s not the case here?

Yes, there was massive media interest around the Libby Squire case - daily updates in the tabloids, public appeals by her family etc. You can read more about it here: Murder of Libby Squire - Wikipedia
& there were multiple Websleuths threads.

 

[Quietey]

Just trying to think of other possibilities -

What if NB suddenly realises dog has disappeared, runs to look for dog (or chases after dog) and is the victim of a hit and run - so may not be in the area she is expected to be found. Even worse, someone could have then tried to conceal what happened.

Also the area where dogs are supposed to be on a lead is close by (not sure why - is it a sheep field?) and what would be the consequences of a dog straying into that area?

Wonder if she had had any conflict with anyone in the are eg people fishing who might not like dogs disturbing their fishing. Or conflict with any other dog walker?

 

[Telltale]

Yes, there was massive media interest around the Libby Squire case - daily updates in the tabloids, public appeals by her family etc. You can read more about it here: Murder of Libby Squire - Wikipedia
& there were multiple Websleuths threads.

LS case had some very different circumstances and it is a very different river. I used to live streets away from LS street and have been to all the places she was last seen at. The River Hull has drowned many people, its got a notoriously nasty current and empties straight into the Humber, which is even worse. Not to mention it's not that close to her last known (street) location. They didn't piece together her final movements to start searching the water until a week after she had disappeared.

In this case you have a (in this section) slow wide river, with waters running at around knee height. An extensive search concentrating on the water within hours of her disappearance and a full first day of daylight, yet no body, clothing, evidence of foul play or that she went into the water at all.

As for a scene: Even if it wasn't considered too contaminated to do anything with once people had been walking all over it and scrambling down the bank before police arrived, there wouldn't been much to process. Seize the phone and the dog lead. Take good photos of the bank, any broken vegetation or any interesting to footprints. After that, what is there? You aren't getting good DNA off of a public park bench or off grass. (Or honestly good footprints off a well travelled walking path.) There isn't any blood, sign of a struggle, fall (apparently) or other foul play.

Either they put on a quick scene and took it off once CSI had come to take some photos, or they just seized her items and didn't put in a scene because of contamination/they were first running it as a missing person who might have ended up in the river, not a crime. Either way, there's would not be much to preserve.

 

[YaYa_521]

<modsnip> @YaYa_521 can I just ask are we allowed to put our own handdrawn maps on of potential walking routes etc? Surely if we are speculating we can do this. We obviously can’t add a source in those instances. Thanks

@Firstsnow4
Hand drawn maps are fine. If the map is drawn on paper, simply take a snapshot then upload stating it's your own creation/document. However, if you use a map template from a source such as Google Maps and you add lines showing the route from point A to point B or Xs to show where the bench/house/dog/harness/leash/etc. were located, then a link to the mapped coordinates is required.

HTH

 

[brownbread]

In all the time that elapsed from the start of the meeting to that point did nobody think it strange that NB hadn't made any contribution to the meeting? Did nobody mention her name or ask her a question and think it odd that she hadn't responded?

From what the boss said it sounded like a large meeting with many attendees. I know my workplace often has these kind of ‘broadcast’ meetings where you’re expected to listen not actively participate, and it’s quite common for people to stay muted and off video throughout (and no doubt many people multi-task like Nicola was doing with her dog walk). You wouldn’t know whether a person is there actively listening or has just pressed ‘join’ and then wandered off.

 

[YaYa_521]

Would someone please share a link to Nicola's Strava account?

 

[Telltale]

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www.strava.com

I think it counts as victim SM since it's a public account

 

[YaYa_521]

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I think it counts as victim SM since it's a public account

Thank you for the link. Yes, it is open for discussion because it's Nicola's account. What is there to discuss? All I see is a white page with her name, followers/following and current month stats.

 

[Telltale]

Thank you for the link. Yes, it is open for discussion because it's Nicola's account. What is there to discuss? All I see is a white page with her name, followers/following and current month stats.

I don't know what you can or can't see without the app, but if you look at activities you can see a fair few of her common routes, (the river walk was a common routine) up until she stopped using it in November.

ETA - link

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[YaYa_521]

I don't know what you can or can't see without the app, but if you look at activities you can see a fair few of her common routes, (the river walk was a common routine) up until she stopped using it in November.

ETA - link

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www.strava.com

TY!

 

[Catdetective]

In her Strava photos, she is often wearing white wired earphones. It would be interesting to know if they have been found, and if so if they were near to her mobile phone.

 

[imstilla.grandma]

Ms Bulley’s parents, Ernest, 73, and Dot, 72, vowed “we will never stop looking for her.”

Speaking to the Mirror, Ernest said: “There was no sign of a slip or falling in so our thought was ‘has somebody got her’?

“I asked the Sergeant from Fleetwood a few days ago, ‘is there any chance of her being taken’ and she said ‘I don't think that's the case’.

It comes as an “abandoned house” was searched in the investigation for the missing dog walker Nicola Bulley.

Friends share images of Nicola Bulley on day she disappeared – live

Police believe that the mother of two fell into the River Wyre while walking her dog nearby

www.independent.co.uk

When I look at the kids, I have to go out of the room because I can't hold it together,' he said.

'They are asking where Mummy is and, when is Mummy coming home? It's so hard.'

Father of missing mother reveals heartbreaking question her girls ask

Ms Bulley was last seen walking her spaniel Willow about 9.15am last Friday along the River Wyre in Lancashire, while dialled into a business call.

www.dailymail.co.uk

Nicola Bulley excitedly made spa break plans the night before she vanished

Nicola, who "lived for her children", had also bought tickets to watch them perform at choir and gymnastics shows in recent weeks

www.lancs.live

 

[in2thegate]

i wonder whether either of the witnesses can confirm she was listening to the teams meeting on loud speaker or via head phones or air pods ?

 

[Furore]

Drowning is possible even in low water levels - particularly in cold water with additional cold water shock and gasping.

If you rolled down the bank and your face hit the water you could still inhale a gulp of cold water leading to vocal
Cord spasm

Here is a link to a medical article on the mechanism of drowning Drowning: Background, Etiology, Epidemiology

After initial breath holding, when the victim's airway lies below the liquid's surface, an involuntary period of laryngospasm is triggered by the presence of liquid in the oropharynx or larynx. At this time, the victim is unable to breathe in air, causing oxygen depletion and carbon dioxide retention. As the oxygen tension in blood drops further, laryngospasm releases, and the victim gasps, hyperventilates, possibly aspirating variable amounts of liquid. This leads to further hypoxemia.



IMO people underestimate the risks of especially cold but outdoor water in general.