Found Deceased UK - Nicola Bulley Last Seen Walking Dog Near River - St Michaels on Wyre (Lancashire) #5

[acutename]

We don’t know for 100% certainty there was no ball. But based on her recent walks and from friends they have stated she stopped taking them. But that doesn’t mean she didn’t take one that day. It’s possible.

the other thing that I just thought of- if other dog walkers take balls and some are lying around, the dog could still find a discarded one

 

[karakuchi]

Has anyone else noticed that the UK media surrounding this case are constantly updating their reports to accurately reflect the 'official' police report?

I understand they are probably doing this in cooperation with the police to avoid speculation, which I get.
But some important facts have evaporated.

Early into this breaking, about day 3, there were several reports of an anonymous women finding the dog in the field, not by the bench - closer to the caravan park.

She said she tied it up (not mentioned where) and had an appointment so left.
But the dog was not found tied up by the bench...

Ever since the official statement yesterday, this has been changed to a walker finding everything in one go, the dog, the phone & the harness.

This may be legit, maybe the police have decided this witness was unreliable.
But...
It's a big deal, because it may reveal that willow followed NB away from the bench.

It's just frustrating because now it sounds crazy.

 

[supernothing]

I was looking into facts around falling into open water...

MYTH #1: Falling into cold water kills you because your wet clothes pull you down.
Fact: Wet clothes only weigh you down when you’re getting out of the water. This concept that clothes aren’t heavy in the water is often difficult for people to understand unless they have experienced it themselves. Advanced lifesaving training and some military training involves learning to stay afloat and swim for long periods of time fully clothed, including shoes. My experience in doing that proved to me that my clothing and shoes actually helped me to float, as long as I didn’t use any swim strokes above the water surface. Of course, wearing a life jacket increases your chances of surviving even more.

MYTH #2: People drown because they don’t know how to swim.
Fact: Most people think that swimmers never drown, but research proves that most people who drown were perceived to know how to swim. Falling into cold water causes an involuntary gasp reflex and you could possibly inhale water and drown. Also, it’s a struggle to gain control of your breathing. Hyperventilating in this first stage of cold-water immersion can cause you to blackout and drown. To survive after falling into cold water, you must remain calm, avoid panicking, and stop hyperventilating within the first minute. There is a technique that may help prevent hyperventilation and it involves breathing out through pursed lips. The first minute after you fall into cold water can be challenging, even for strong swimmers.

See more at...

Cold Water Fatality Myths

By R.J. Garren

www.dvidshub.net

I think it is obviously a possibility that she did unfortunately fall in. But with multiple witnesses having seen her, and more than one who knew her at least knew of her, I find it really surprising that:

1. She could've drowned so quickly without anyone noticing. Although a secluded area it was obviously a popular walking spot.

2. Say she has sadly drowned, perhaps if she was unconscious before going in... It's even more surprising that after more than a week there has been no evidence of her falling in. Not even her wellies have been found after extensive searches by highly trained water search teams who know where to look and where they would expect a missing person who has fallen in the river to end up. I can only imagine the turmoil her family are going through going over and over every possibility.

 

[JeremyBentham]

the other thing that I just thought of- if other dog walkers take balls and some are lying around, the dog could still find a discarded one

True. But you’d think she’d be even less bothered about it being in the river to retrieve it, if that was the case. Also a ball rolling into the river from that height would surely float out quite far from the bank before she even got remotely close to it. Maybe not. But I’m not sold on the ball theory, even if there was a ball

 

[ayrshireguy]

True. But you’d think she’d be even less bothered about it being in the river to retrieve it, if that was the case. Also a ball rolling into the river from that height would surely float out quite far from the bank before she even got remotely close to it. Maybe not. But I’m not sold on the ball theory, even if there was a ball

Yep. I doubt anyone is going to bother their backside about retrieving a ball never mind an old one that the dog found.

 

[Deberysejd]

So you’re saying the witnesses who actually knew Nikki and spoke to her when their dogs interacted were mistaken? That despite Nikki being seen doing her usual morning walk of the dog, she didn’t actually do it <modsnip>?

People can often be mistaken.
It’s just my opinion of course.
It’s so very odd that we have no footage of her at all, no details of her car etc.

 

[pineapple23]

True. But you’d think she’d be even less bothered about it being in the river to retrieve it, if that was the case. Also a ball rolling into the river from that height would surely float out quite far from the bank before she even got remotely close to it. Maybe not. But I’m not sold on the ball theory, even if there was a ball

If there WAS a stray ball, it could be that Nicola had to jump up to stop Willow trying to retrieve it. Wet dog in car not ideal.

 

[ayrshireguy]

People can often be mistaken.
It’s just my opinion of course.
It’s so very odd that we have no footage of her at all, no details of her car etc.

I suspect that CCTV from the school might be released soon.

 

[msmarple99]

Has anyone else noticed that the UK media surrounding this case are constantly updating their reports to accurately reflect the 'official' police report?

I understand they are probably doing this in cooperation with the police to avoid speculation, which I get.
But some important facts have evaporated.

Early into this breaking, about day 3, there were several reports of an anonymous women finding the dog in the field, not by the bench - closer to the caravan park.

She said she tied it up (not mentioned where) and had an appointment so left.
But the dog was not found tied up by the bench...

Ever since the official statement yesterday, this has been changed to a walker finding everything in one go, the dog, the phone & the harness.

This may be legit, maybe the police have decided this witness was unreliable.
But...
It's a big deal, because it may reveal that willow followed NB away from the bench.

It's just frustrating because now it sounds crazy.

That woman <modsnip> had to rush off to her appointment, do we know where she was headed,? To the village?

 

[PandaMarch]

People can often be mistaken.
It’s just my opinion of course.
It’s so very odd that we have no footage of her at all, no details of her car etc.

We don't, doesn't mean the police don't!

 

[Beginnersleuth]

If someone had a key to the locked exits and was lurking there it could change things. One exit was right next to where she was last seen. No one would subsequently venture down there unless they also had a key…

Obviously this is wild speculation and surely Willow would be hanging around the gate if this was the case…

Unless she was taken by someone she as comfortable with thinking she was just going home

 

[wrpd]

Is it correct that there is no cctv of NB?
I don't see how this could be possible, but I imagine there is not a necessity to release it.

 

[ayrshireguy]

Is it correct that there is no cctv of NB?
I don't see how this could be possible, but I imagine there is not a necessity to release it.

Nothing has been released or mentioned by police as yet.

 

[pineapple23]

I don't understand why there hasn't been a reconstruction with Willow or a similar dog.

 

[Deberysejd]

We don't, doesn't mean the police don't!

What would be the reason to not release it? Jog a few memories, physically show her outfit.
Unless they don’t beleive the story they’re telling the public.

 

[jackal67]

Just replying to a comment at the end of the last thread. Why would someone walk Willow to the bench and then let her off? (Or if she had had her usual walk, she would probably be wet, at least judging by SM pics of many previous walks.Why wasn’t she?)

If dog, phone and lead were left there by a third party to imply an accident, this would explain this. Feels far fetched though. Thought fits with idea of possible abduction soon after 9.10 sighting. MOO

But if a third party took willow and the phone to the bench, where was NB while they were doing this? Where was willow when NB was abducted, trotting obediently alongside the abductor? Totally didn't happen. JMO

 

[doghandler]

Just a note on search dogs that some may find useful given some recent questions. We don’t know what types of dogs have been used. The most commonly involved in missing person searches in the UK will be:

Airscenting dogs that are trained to find any live person within an area - they will perform an alert (such as barking at the find or returning to their handler and sitting, before guiding them back to the misper). These are the most common search dogs in Mountain rescue and Lowland search teams. I know of airscenting dogs who also alert on remains, or have behaved in such a way as to help find people in water - but this isn’t specifically trained as far as I know.

Cadaver dogs are trained to find any human remains within in an area - they will typically alert on even small amounts of material, very old remains, buried remains, and some are specifically trained to do so from boats on water (as are some live find dogs, I believe)

Trailing dogs are trained to follow the scent-specific trail of a misper. They are worked on leads, and need both a scent item from the misper (it can be a swab from their car for example), and a possible start point. While some can work trails that are a few days old (dependent on wind and weather conditions), they would typically be most successful on fairly fresh trails. They are less common in SAR teams - and I believe police dogs used for trailing are typically the multi-purpose types that more usually use this skill to track and apprehend suspects.

There are variations on all of these (and other types of search dogs) but these are typically the broad groups of those used - with airscenting live find dogs the most prevalent in search organisations.

 

[PineTreeSleuther]

But if a third party took willow and the phone to the bench, where was NB while they were doing this? Where was willow when NB was abducted, trotting obediently alongside the abductor? Totally didn't happen. JMO

Yes, I said it was far-fetched!

 

[porkypies]

If she didn't usually sit on the bench, it could be that she suddenly felt unwell

I haven't seen it suggested anywhere by the police that NB sat on the bench.
If she put the phone on the bench at 9.20 when the police say it was on the bench, she may have been walking past the bench at the time and put the phone down for a reason.
Also, I don't personally think it suspicious if someone on a dog walk in the country does decide to sit down on a conveniently placed bench overlooking the river with an ongoing video call on her phone, the reasons could be infinite.

 

[Cuko]

I can’t justify this intellectually, but the caravan park near the field is coming into my mind frequently. I do wish I could track down info that it’s definitely been searched.