Found Deceased UK - Nicola Bulley Last Seen Walking Dog Near River - St Michaels on Wyre (Lancashire), Jan 2023 #18

[Simplistic67]

IMO The phone, bench and Willow are red herrings....

 

[pineapple23]

Makes one wonder in general how many people are dumped in water and then later assumed as a suicide

I don't think suicide is the automatic assumption when a body is found in the water. Imo it would be accident (ie after a night out in the pub) - unless forensics and other evidence indicate foul play/death other than by drowning or there is evidence that the body was 'dumped'. As for suicide, there would have to be pretty strong indicators imo for there to be a suicide ruling.
Going just by what we know, I suspect it would be an open/misadventure verdict in this instance. Unless of course there are details we aren't party to.

 

[Marie Bell]

There'll be no need for an inquest, then; being as people seem to think that NB is just a statistic, and that people, whoever they are, are always perfectly safe on steep, slippy slopes, over which even the intrepid 'journalists' were careful to not try to go too far.

 

[FromGermany1]

Makes one wonder in general how many people are dumped in water and then later assumed as a suicide

.... assumed as a suicide especially after relatives (friends?) pointed out this possibility. Should be viewed critically, IMO.

 

[shinimeggie]

.... assumed as a suicide especially after relatives (friends?) pointed out this possibility. Should be viewed critically, IMO.

I think a verdict of suicide is actually only made when they're sure it's suicide. Having someone say 'oh, they expressed suicidal ideation' often isn't enough. It's still considered taboo to have a verdict of suicide, although I personally would want to know and would want the right verdict to be reached, even if it was determined to be on-purpose.

 

[Bibitty]

Why does it have to be off the back of a dispute?

Most accidents don't have writing for them that you'd find in 'Casualty' or 'CSI'. Accidents are mean and they're sad, but they do happen. People go tit over teakettle all the time. Unfortunately, there doesn't need to be anything deeper than that.

She probably left her phone there because she felt it was safe. We're all guilty of doing that occasionally when we're following a routine, even outside of our own homes. Being mentally distracted can also make someone more likely to absently leave their phone somewhere and more likely to end up doing something careless or risky that could end up with them in harm -- but most people survive to mutter to themselves what an idiot they are and that they'll never do xyz again.

I can understand someone leaving phone if popping to the loo in a bush near by - but in this case why would you choose to actually squat down right on the waters edge where there are no bushes - the riverbank is very visually exposed and doesn’t seem to have any bushes or trees for a private pee.

 

[ruby925]

Was PA at the bench before the police? Do we know that for sure?

It has been stated the harness and lead were found on the grass on the floor a little way from the bench. But if NB had tethered Willow and she broke free, the lead would have still been tied to the bench when found. Also there's no way Willow would have broken free from both the harness AND being tied, it would be one or the other. I've had a dog that could back out of her harness if she really tried.

PA in Ch5 interview said that he called 999 on the way to the scene, he estimated that call to be 1050. At the bench he was given NB's fone and Willow, received a call from the police telling him to go home as the police would be going there, he drove home, estimating the police were at the house at 1125. So from his recall, PA was at the bench before the police.
You are right about Willow not being able to break free of both harness and lead. As the lead wasn't mentioned at all until mid Feb, AFAIK it was never made clear if the lead was attached to the harness when found, or whether the harness was fastened (ie Willlow could have backed out of it). IMO, if Willow was not tied up by NB, ie made safeand unable to follow her, it is more likely to have been a tragic accident. all MOO.

 

[PeggyHenry]

I don’t think we know the name of the witness who talked to NB in top field. Is there any cctv evidence of NB that morning, apart from the door bell cctv which shows a vague image. It seems strange that none was released at the time of disappearance… which is what usually happens.
As far as I can make out, we have a witness at the school drop off but not sure if there was cctv.

 

[NeverPersonal]

*all of the below is my pondering, some ideas, and a couple hypothetical scenarios. my opinions only.*

Some things I've been rolling around in my thinker:

Nicola seemed a woman who enjoyed being fit. Perhaps she'd stop during her dog walks and her hikes to do a workout in that comfortable, familiar location. May sound far-fetched but I have friends that do this, even on walks with their dogs. They simply tie up the pet to a tree or bench or the like, put any expensive items that may fall out of pockets while doing a workout (i.e. phone) in/on the nearest place they deem safe, and get to business - jumping jacks, running in place, the like. One of my friends does this except with a full yoga routine combined with a workout she learned from her gym trainer boyfriend.

Perhaps during this hypothetical workout, she got quite dizzy and assumed it would go away since it wasn't something that had happened previously?
She could have had a small or large medical event near the water. She could have fallen in and have been too dizzy and weak to have made her way out.

I have been fixating on how Nicola's last blurry image of this life would be watching her precious dog barking to try and alert someone, and barking because of its beloved owner appearing to be in danger, while she comes up struggling for air. It's tragic, devastating really, to imagine. My heart breaks for NB's daughters she will never again come home to.

The other thing I've been thinking of is the potential issue of mental health. Was Nicola suffering silently? Did she near on the edge with her beloved dog nearby as she contemplated the end, and gently slip away into the river?

I haven't read all of this thread as I have recently gotten a part-time job after 3 years off because my health was so brutal I nearly died a few times - I'm still in my 20s so this was exceptionally terrifying for me, I feel I haven't even lived just yet - so I do have a question for anyone who knows:

• Do we know the mechanics behind this body of water she lost her life in?
• Was this river flowing quickly or rather calmly instead? I feel this makes a big difference in the potential scenarios of what occurred that day.
• Thoughts on the guy being fired for siding with the family's ideas of what happened while also speaking out against local police work & their theories?
• Do we know if it is more likely to be an accident than self-harm?
• Are there any signs she was depressed, anxious, experiencing an episode of some kind, or was it just your normal run-of-the-mill walking your dog?

 

[NeverPersonal]

I don’t think we know the name of the witness who talked to NB in top field. Is there any cctv evidence of NB that morning, apart from the door bell cctv which shows a vague image. It seems strange that none was released at the time of disappearance… which is what usually happens.
As far as I can make out, we have a witness at the school drop off but not sure if there was cctv.

Do you believe the top field witness potentially knows more?

 

[Bibitty]

I don’t think we know the name of the witness who talked to NB in top field. Is there any cctv evidence of NB that morning, apart from the door bell cctv which shows a vague image. It seems strange that none was released at the time of disappearance… which is what usually happens.
As far as I can make out, we have a witness at the school drop off but not sure if there was cctv.

Is CCTV only shown if it’s the last sighting? We know NB was seen at school and by two other witnesses after the home CCTV. Maybe it wasn’t released as she may have been wearing different clothes? Maybe she changed clothes / added coat / wellies after drop off - and the witnesses described these clothes which didn’t match her home CCTV images - so these then would be potentially misleading / unhelpful to share

 

[PeggyHenry]

I think cctv is often used as a way of jogging people’s memories and taking them back to the moment… I am surprised that an image of NB on or near the walk hasnt been released… prior to her body being located. The only image we saw was before she set out and I wouldn’t have known that was her.. the face shape and clothing didn’t tie up with released pictures of her. How ever, I’m not suggesting it wasn’t her!!
I am not convinced that she walked the riverside walk hence I’d love to see cctv images that prove me wrong

 

[infinit]

I think cctv is often used as a way of jogging people’s memories and taking them back to the moment… I am surprised that an image of NB on or near the walk hasnt been released… prior to her body being located. The only image we saw was before she set out and I wouldn’t have known that was her.. the face shape and clothing didn’t tie up with released pictures of her. How ever, I’m not suggesting it wasn’t her!!
I am not convinced that she walked the riverside walk hence I’d love to see cctv images that prove me wrong

From what camera do you expect her to be captured on? There isn't a camera to my knowledge between the school and the entrance to the path. And there is almost certainly going to be none along the river.

 

[pineapple23]

I think cctv is often used as a way of jogging people’s memories and taking them back to the moment… I am surprised that an image of NB on or near the walk hasnt been released… prior to her body being located. The only image we saw was before she set out and I wouldn’t have known that was her.. the face shape and clothing didn’t tie up with released pictures of her. How ever, I’m not suggesting it wasn’t her!!
I am not convinced that she walked the riverside walk hence I’d love to see cctv images that prove me wrong

I think the kids would have noticed if it wasn't their Mum who took them to school plus she was seen at the school. She and Willow were also seen on the walk. To suggest that it might not have been her is to suggest that she was swapped with a look-a-like and no one noticed (pretty risky and complicated) or that the witnesses lied and there was some plot to remove her and leave Willow and the phone etc at the bench. However she was signed in to a team meeting and the phone's trajectory was traced. So I think those are improbable scenarios. JMO.

 

[Sjöberg]

later rang her daughter in law who knew whose dog it was so she (DiL) rang the school NB's kids attend

Just saying, that I am not sure if the contact was calling or face-to-face and I am not sure if "DiL" & "school" mean the same person or a different person. I don't think there's anything too odd about that in any case.

In terms of suicide, jumping in a river would not seem like a very effective method - I've said this on here before but most women would not be too mortified at the idea of being found alive but in a state of disarray very close to one's children's school and home to try such a method.

Well, when you're suicidal you're not going to think like that. If they would be able to think like that, they would not kill themselves. All reasonable things aside, people dying also loose bowel control as the muscles are no longer contracted - that should be enough to scare many young people off killing themselves in a place where they will be found.

The probability in this case is if someone wants to commit suicide this is one of the rarer methods

I think the proportion of sucides commited by drowning is somewhat higher when you look at females vs both genders (for example, drowning was the method for one third of female suicides in Ireland, statement from 2011).

it's probably less painful for the family if it's an accident

You are probably correct and I've always found it surprising about the mankind.
We all have to die, that's for sure. Yet we are more sad if someone died because they wanted to die at that moment than if a horrific surprising accident happened and the person was screaming "No!" and fighting for their life? I understand it and don't understand it at the same time. I assume that a family feels guilty about suicide and not so guilty about an accident - but that's a kinda selfish way to go at it.

 

[shinimeggie]

All reasonable things aside, people dying also loose bowel control as the muscles are no longer contracted - that should be enough to scare many young people off killing themselves in a place where they will be found.

If that were at all true, it would be far, far easier to help people who want to commit suicide and we'd have far, far less people of any age doing it.

I knew all sorts of undignified things happen after death, I knew it would break my family -- but I still tried, into the double digits. Mental illness is not sensible or logical, as I'm sure you know from your other comments.

 

[Rusty Braincells]

If that were at all true, it would be far, far easier to help people who want to commit suicide and we'd have far, far less people of any age doing it.

I knew all sorts of undignified things happen after death, I knew it would break my family -- but I still tried, into the double digits. Mental illness is not sensible or logical, as I'm sure you know from your other comments.

I agree. If you haven’t experienced suicidal ideation or seen its effects close up then you can be inclined to think “well, surely you wouldn’t want anyone finding you like that,” or “surely a mother wouldn’t leave her kids,” or a “surely a dog-lover wouldn’t risk the dog being run over.” Those are all thoughts of a rational person who wants to go on, and hasn’t crossed a bridge in their mind. I am sure there are a couple of people out there who’ve reflected on how they would be found and it’s been their reason to stick around, but if you cannot stand to be alive anymore because of how you feel, you’re likely not going to be dissuaded from that way out by thinking there is going to be a horrible mess for someone else to clean up after you’re gone.

This case has shown to me that we sometimes have more trouble accepting horrible freak accidents, the possibility of suicide, and what drinking problems are and how they play out and what they might cause, than murder.

 

[PeggyHenry]

From what camera do you expect her to be captured on? There isn't a camera to my knowledge between the school and the entrance to the path. And there is almost certainly going to be none along the river.

The ones that cover entrances exits to river walk which have been mentioned in media reports

 

[PeggyHenry]

I think the kids would have noticed if it wasn't their Mum who took them to school plus she was seen at the school. She and Willow were also seen on the walk. To suggest that it might not have been her is to suggest that she was swapped with a look-a-like and no one noticed (pretty risky and complicated) or that the witnesses lied and there was some plot to remove her and leave Willow and the phone etc at the bench. However she was signed in to a team meeting and the phone's trajectory was traced. So I think those are improbable scenarios. JMO.

Don’t worry I’m well aware of how it sounds .. improbable .. but when I say river walk I mean just that.. by the river. I do think she walked the lower and upper field ..

 

[shinimeggie]

Don’t worry I’m well aware of how it sounds .. improbable .. but when I say river walk I mean just that.. by the river. I do think she walked the lower and upper field ..

It sounds literally impossible that all along some fake Nicola had been doing all this, just her routine life.