Found Deceased UK - Nicola Bulley Last Seen Walking Dog Near River - St Michaels on Wyre (Lancashire), Jan 2023 #18

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Their actions can mean lots of different things. It is information gathering.

I just hope that this will be a narrative verdict not an open verdict if it comes down to something less conclusive i.e. not one of the short form verdicts. They may want to use a narrative verdict anyway.

A lot of the articles are misleading. They may have already determined cause of death (ETA wrt post mortem and pathologist's report). They may not be able to determine cause of death. Sometimes the cause of death cannot be confirmed. Really unlikely but possible.

Further to this, just because someone is in a river does not automatically mean that they drowned. Of course, most very likely they DID drown, but it's not absolute. There can be other explanations even if, obviously, they are a lot less frequent. Also, someone could drown as a result of multiple other factors. I am just speaking in general terms because some of the more recent media releases really annoyed me.

Also, the cause of death is not the same as the outcome of an inquest. An inquest takes place to determine several things and essentially how the death came to be is one of them. So, e.g. the verdict could be suicide but the manner of death could be hanging.

The most accurate current information on what is going on IMO is (unsurprisingly) from the spokesperson for HM Coroner:

“The investigation will take time to complete to ensure that as complete a picture as possible of the facts concerning Ms Bulley's death is presented at the inquest. This will assist the family in understanding what occurred.

"As part of this process, HM Senior Coroner has requested Lancashire Constabulary produce information gathered during the search for Ms Bulley so it can be considered as part of the investigation.”

Just think there is a lot of bad information around in the media.
 
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Can someone please enlighten me on what a worried dog looks like o_O....
There have been several MSM articles about Willow's behavior, and they all make sense as to why when her owner (Nicola) disappeared on their walk, the dog would demonstrate "worry", imo (BBM):

"One factor of her strange vanishing that has caught many people's attention is the behaviour of her spaniel Willow. Nicola was walking Willow on a footpath near the River Wyre in St Michael's, Lancashire, at the time she went missing.
...
Willow had been found, 'bone dry', running between the bench and a gate to a nearby field despite the working theory that Nicola fell into the river.
...
"Kimberly Freeman from City Sit Stay told The Star: "I know there’s some speculation as to the dog being in distress in the water. They’re generally bred to swim quite well, a lot of dogs can swim naturally but spaniels are especially good swimmers, given what they’re raised to do and bred to do.

Because they are so loyal to their owners, if there was some kind of distress going on they would be very panicked and probably try and help as best they can. If they weren’t able to, there would be a lot of pacing around, vocalising as well, and if there were other people around they would try to get that person’s attention.""


This "opinion" ^^ jives with what is meant by what a worried dog looks like, imo.

Experts' verdict on Nicola Bulley's dog 'running back and forth'

And this reference to her dog seeming "worried" in original MSM article quoted above when OP asked about the dog's behavior, imo:

Passerby raised alarm after finding missing mum's 'worried' dog wandering alone
 
Nicola police divers 'looking for specific missing item in river'


Nicola police divers 'looking for specific missing item in river'
From that article

Dr Shepherd added that the morgue would have done a post-mortem to uncover any natural diseases in her system, injuries and samples for alcohol and drugs.

He said that he thought they were looking for an 'artefact of some sort' that they cannot find but they believe is in the river. He says that police would not want a member of the public to find it.

He said it was unlikely that police were trying to reconstruct how her body travelled down the river as there are too many variables, such as reeds and branches getting in the way and the exact river flow, to properly repeat it.
 
Thank you for adding that. Richard Shepherd said that was his guess! They may not be looking for anything like that. However, if they are, I would maybe imagine something like car keys etc.

I think Willow is important in a different way - why she was running free and the human behaviour associated with this, i.e. she was not tied up prior to this. To me anyway it leans more to accident and otherwise but of course not definitively.

Correct me if I am wrong here but I do not understand how anyone could attempt to predict dog behaviour with any kind of absolute certainty? Nicola could have fallen in and drowned and Willow could have stayed on the bank, running around or confused. I do not think that a dog would NECESSARILY go into the water. May be totally wrong - I am not a dog expert. Anyone who works with dogs or studies dogs will know more accurately :).

If the family and friends do read Websleuths and it is not limited to MSM and social media, I hope that they know that people care about the truth of what happened. People on here, from what I have seen, want accurate information. It is not the same as the trolls on social media.

RIP Nicola.
 
Thank you for adding that. Richard Shepherd said that was his guess! They may not be looking for anything like that. However, if they are, I would maybe imagine something like car keys etc.

I think Willow is important in a different way - why she was running free and the human behaviour associated with this, i.e. she was not tied up prior to this. To me anyway it leans more to accident and otherwise but of course not definitively.

Correct me if I am wrong here but I do not understand how anyone could attempt to predict dog behaviour with any kind of absolute certainty? Nicola could have fallen in and drowned and Willow could have stayed on the bank, running around or confused. I do not think that a dog would NECESSARILY go into the water. May be totally wrong - I am not a dog expert. Anyone who works with dogs or studies dogs will know more accurately :).

If the family and friends do read Websleuths and it is not limited to MSM and social media, I hope that they know that people care about the truth of what happened. People on here, from what I have seen, want accurate information. It is not the same as the trolls on social media.

RIP Nicola.

Car keys or her Fitbit device? From the claim re a police diver floating above the weir in the embedded video it sounds like they’ve yet to establish where she went into the water - surprising at this point, but it would be of direct relevance to a Coroner’s verdict.

That said, the “search” seems rather cursory - mainly involving wading back and forth across the river.
 
You make it sound like stairs that go into the water that you can walk up and out on. Looks like a slippery muddy climb, the first steps cannot even be reached by your feet. There is no way a person in water-soaked clothing could have pulled themselves up that bank without help. MOO
View attachment 414297

She wouldn't have necessarily needed to climb out though. I know the diver has a line pulling them out there but it seemed shallow enough for someone to right themselves, stand up and have some of their upper body out the water and wait before the first person arrived unless they were overcome by the shock. Also whilst that drop off is steep the bank itself above it wasn't that steep. I say that in the sense that if you fell over mid way between the bench and water where the harness was you probably wouldn't roll into the river, you'd brace your fall.

In isolation the dog being dry doesn't prove anything but when consider the whole picture of somehow falling in, being overcome with shock, divers on the scene quickly not finding anything, body travelling over the weir/rocks AND the dog being dry then it becomes a very odd series of events.
 
Nicola police divers 'looking for specific missing item in river'


Nicola police divers 'looking for specific missing item in river'
I can't even imagine what it could be that they are looking for after all this time, but whatever it is, it is MUCH smaller than Nicola's body, and that took over 3 weeks to be found. This sounds like a case of finding a needle in a haystack. I hope they've been told what they are looking for to make it easier on them! Sounds to me like they need a miracle. I wish them much luck.

Police investigating Nicola Bulley's death are reportedly looking for a 'specific' item that is missing from where she died, a forensic pathologist has claimed.

[...]

He said that he thought they were looking for an 'artefact of some sort' that they cannot find but they believe is in the river. He says that police would not want a member of the public to find it.

 
Former forensic pathologist thinks divers must be looking for something specific. He thinks it's unlikely that they are attempting a reconstruction as the conditions can't be repeated. Nicola Bulley police are searching river for missing object, says ex-pathologist
Maybe she was missing her jewelry...wedding/engagement rings and/or a necklace? If she had a contusion on her head...did it happen from slipping and falling in or from being hit and pushed in after a robbery? Just some thoughts.
 
Why would they not want a member of the public to find it?

I'm wondering if they're speaking as to some type of weapon - a gun or knife maybe? JMO MOO speculating
Or maybe it's simply that - after it took a member of the public to find the body - they would be left with even more egg on their faces if the public started turning up potential evidence!
 
Maybe she was missing her jewelry...wedding/engagement rings and/or a necklace? If she had a contusion on her head...did it happen from slipping and falling in or from being hit and pushed in after a robbery? Just some thoughts.
Good luck to searchers if they are looking for a ring in the water! It took over 3 weeks to find a body, I say the chances are pretty slim they'd find something as small as a ring.
 
Maybe she was missing her jewelry...wedding/engagement rings and/or a necklace? If she had a contusion on her head...did it happen from slipping and falling in or from being hit and pushed in after a robbery? Just some thoughts.
There was a necklace mentioned in the list of items for walkers/searchers to look out for. That was in Superintendent Sally Riley's press conference - however I don't think it was ever mentioned again in further updates.
Superintendent Sally Riley - Press Conference - Sky News
 
She wouldn't have necessarily needed to climb out though. I know the diver has a line pulling them out there but it seemed shallow enough for someone to right themselves, stand up and have some of their upper body out the water and wait before the first person arrived unless they were overcome by the shock. Also whilst that drop off is steep the bank itself above it wasn't that steep. I say that in the sense that if you fell over mid way between the bench and water where the harness was you probably wouldn't roll into the river, you'd brace your fall.

In isolation the dog being dry doesn't prove anything but when consider the whole picture of somehow falling in, being overcome with shock, divers on the scene quickly not finding anything, body travelling over the weir/rocks AND the dog being dry then it becomes a very odd series of events.
These are my thoughts exactly, I'd also add in the people finding Willow and the phone not checking the water is very odd as well as its the first place I'd have checked. When all of these unlikely occurrences are added together it makes the possibility of these being an accident very unlikely. What actually happened I don't know and probably never will, but I'm convinced she either took her own life somewhere else or she died following some sort of altercation around the area of the bench.
 
Car keys or her Fitbit device? From the claim re a police diver floating above the weir in the embedded video it sounds like they’ve yet to establish where she went into the water - surprising at this point, but it would be of direct relevance to a Coroner’s verdict.

That said, the “search” seems rather cursory - mainly involving wading back and forth across the river.
I've always been interested in the Fitbit as the data from that would give time of death. What I find promising is they've never asked people to look for it on the river bank, so maybe it was still attached to her
 
Why would they not want a member of the public to find it?

I'm wondering if they're speaking as to some type of weapon - a gun or knife maybe? JMO MOO speculating
My first thought was a weapon of some kind. I can’t see that finding car keys or a wellington boot, etc, weeks after poor Nicola’s body was found, would shed much light on anything at all.
 
My first thought was a weapon of some kind. I can’t see that finding car keys or a wellington boot, etc, weeks after poor Nicola’s body was found, would shed much light on anything at all.

Agree. Also if the item being searched for was keys, fitbit, jewellery, or clothing etc... why would they not want a member of the public to find it? They'd be surely appealing for anyone to notify if they see something to alert them immediately whatever it may be.

Personally, I don't believe N took her life by jumping in the river but that's JMO.
 
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