Found Deceased UK - Nicola Bulley Last Seen Walking Dog Near River - St Michaels on Wyre (Lancashire), Jan 2023 #18

[once upon a time]

Unless she was pushed?

I am not saying that's what I think happened.

But if she was pushed, how would they be able to differentiate it from her entering the river on her own?

It is an interesting question indeed. I'm not convinced someone pushing her would have left the phone behind as it may have recorded some evidence especially if it was on a conference call.

If someone had pushed her and it was a clear accident I think they would have come forward. If they had pushed her out of aggression with intent leaving the phone would be unlikely IMO. You would throw it in the River, at least with the intention of destroying any potential evidence.

I did think it was possible someone pushed her and they didn't realise what happened afterwards but this also seems improbable.

The clues are all close to the bench. The dog, the harness which was probably put there by the dog, the phone and the deep water sign. It all adds up IMO to a sadly preplanned action which was successfully executed.

 

[abovethestorm]

Unless she was pushed?

I am not saying that's what I think happened.

But if she was pushed, how would they be able to differentiate it from her entering the river on her own?

This remains my gravest concern. Once can only hope that the evidence presented at the Inquest is able to eliminate it somehow, because otherwise, it will weigh heavily on many minds long into the future, IMO.

 

[Agatha3]

Thanks for posting. I wonder what “investigations that still need to be undertaken” might be.

Think not as dramatic as it sounds. The inquiry into the way the welfare incident was handled needs to get underway, possibly the outsiders who got involved may have to make reports, Fitbit experts, perhaps even Ofcom, permissions for, for example, finance and other things that require permission because of data protection. Nothing will be left to chance. I used to cover inquests in an area where many were about asbestos harm from years before victims died. The asbestos firm they had worked for led to ramifications for the company. Coroner and pathologist still had to work out whether these ill people had taken their own lives or if there was foul play. Sorry to wander from the subject but they are so thorough.

 

[abovethestorm]

It is an interesting question indeed. I'm not convinced someone pushing her would have left the phone behind as it may have recorded some evidence especially if it was on a conference call.

If someone had pushed her and it was a clear accident I think they would have come forward. If they had pushed her out of aggression with intent leaving the phone would be unlikely IMO. You would throw it in the River, at least with the intention of destroying any potential evidence.

I did think it was possible someone pushed her and they didn't realise what happened afterwards but this also seems improbable.

The clues are all close to the bench. The dog, the harness which was probably put there by the dog, the phone and the deep water sign. It all adds up IMO to a sadly preplanned action which was successfully executed.

I highly doubt this (bolded bit). MOO, but IF Nicola were pushed, I'd be more inclined to think the assailant would be the kind of person to take that knowledge to their grave with them. It's unthinkable to you or I, but 'personality disordered/Dark Triad' people are out there, and they don't think or experience guilt or shame the way we do. Someone of the personality type to engage in such a hostile act, who knew for sure that they'd 'gotten away with it', is more likely (IMO) to blame the victim and feel that their own actions were justified/that they were 'pushed to it' by the victim. It would be the perfect crime/cover-up, and I can't see them feeling any compunction to 'fess up. Why would they?
I honestly feel that IF Nicola was pushed, the pusher would have confessed well before things got to this stage, if they were ever going to. IMO as always, albeit informed by bitter, long-term experience at the hands of a couple of people with exactly this type of mindset (which may, admittedly, be colouring my viewpoint).

 

[Agatha3]

I think it would need to be beyond any doubt for a coroner to say it was suicide. My brother went to a remote outdoor place to end it, and did so by cutting a wrist. Even so, the coroner concluded it was 'self-harm' and not suicide, because there was no conclusive evidence he genuinely intended that outcome. He went to a place he would never have been interrupted or rescued, but left no note and had no history of anything similar, so the conclusion was that he might only have intended injury. Unless there is a smoking gun message otherwise, I reckon this will not be put down to suicide.

X x x

 

[Simplistic67]

MOO...Im confident in my mind that NB did not take her own life. I cannot see a scenario where she would know that her daughters last sighting of her would be so tragic...She would not put her children through that, not in this way. Dropping them at school and then ending it all just doesnt fit IMO

 

[abovethestorm]

I think we’d definitely know if the death involved a third party. It would be evident from the cause of death, which is a matter of public record on the death certificate. JMO

And presumably if clear evidence of foul play had been found by the pathologist, a criminal case would have been opened as of today/yesterday?

 

[Dave Figgley]

MOO...Im confident in my mind that NB did not take her own life. I cannot see a scenario where she would know that her daughters last sighting of her would be so tragic...She would not put her children through that, not in this way. Dropping them at school and then ending it all just doesnt fit IMO

I agree. She had arranged something for the girls over the weekend and was seeing a new client on the Monday.

 

[WAWAW]

It is an interesting question indeed. I'm not convinced someone pushing her would have left the phone behind as it may have recorded some evidence especially if it was on a conference call.

If someone had pushed her and it was a clear accident I think they would have come forward. If they had pushed her out of aggression with intent leaving the phone would be unlikely IMO. You would throw it in the River, at least with the intention of destroying any potential evidence.

I did think it was possible someone pushed her and they didn't realise what happened afterwards but this also seems improbable.

The clues are all close to the bench. The dog, the harness which was probably put there by the dog, the phone and the deep water sign. It all adds up IMO to a sadly preplanned action which was successfully executed.

I believe the only way we will know anything definitive is if they can extract data from the fitbit. If that points to last steps after 9.33 it wasn't at the bench. If it points to her last breath being around 9.30 then some awkward questions need asking of the people who found the dog.

 

[Simplistic67]

MOO...A single officer turning up to do a welfare check tells me that there was no haste or rush to attend that property. I dont put much significance on that check. If it had been in a possible emergency situation, then maybe at least two officers would have attended.

 

[abovethestorm]

I agree. She had arranged something for the girls over the weekend and was seeing a new client on the Monday.

This really nags at me, too. My mother did all kinds of things preceding her successful suicide attempt that might look like 'making plans' and 'being happy' or in a 'good state of mind' at first glance, but she very clearly did them to create a long enough window of opportunity. Nicola didn't need to log on to that Teams call, or send either of the text messages she did. She was already in the field, by the river, and none of the people on the call or receiving her texts was likely to show up and interrupt her. So it's not like that was necessary to buy time in which to carry out the deed, were she planning to do so. IMO.

 

[brownbeef1975]

Tragic accident imo. Never subscribed to suicide notion, no note, 2 girls, circumstances. Imo. Makes the LP disclosure all the more shameful. IMO.

 

[AzPistonsGirl]

I agree. She had arranged something for the girls over the weekend and was seeing a new client on the Monday.

Sadly, we know all too well that those who decide to take their own lives often have dinner planned for that evening, a trip to another country planned for the summer, clothes in the washer, a work meeting scheduled for tomorrow, plans to make cookies with their kids that weekend... sometimes they've just purchased a new car, adopted a pet, gotten a haircut, gone to the bank, talked to their sister...

there is so often no logic, no playbook, no pattern, nothing we can point to. But what is shared above is true over and over again.

I've no idea what happened here but just wanted to share this gentle reminder.

 

[Simplistic67]

The fitbit obviously has GPS technology, and with it being on the wrist it would have given the correct movement pattern. This is why earlier I questioned the phones movement which also has GPS. But the wording of the phone "approaching" the bench tells me that these two items had different pattern movements...maybe

 

[Zuleika]

I believe the only way we will know anything definitive is if they can extract data from the fitbit. If that points to last steps after 9.33 it wasn't at the bench. If it points to her last breath being around 9.30 then some awkward questions need asking of the people who found the dog.

I'm behind thread today but has the Fitbit been found?

 

[Dave Figgley]

And presumably if clear evidence of foul play had been found by the pathologist, a criminal case would have been opened as of today/yesterday?

The only foul play that would be impossible to prove would be someone unknown having deliberately pushed her into the river.

... or an excited dog throwing her off balance but that would be an accident rather than anything else.

 

[WAWAW]

I'm behind thread today but has the Fitbit been found?

It's not been mentioned although reference has been made to take information away for evaluation. I'm slightly optimistic it has been found attached to her, as they haven't said they are still looking for it and to me if they want to establish when it happened and possibly where then this is key

 

[Dave Figgley]

I believe the only way we will know anything definitive is if they can extract data from the fitbit. If that points to last steps after 9.33 it wasn't at the bench. If it points to her last breath being around 9.30 then some awkward questions need asking of the people who found the dog.

What's a fitbit when it's at home? Is it similar to, what we used to call, a pedometer?

 

[WAWAW]

What's a fitbit when it's at home? Is it similar to, what we used to call, a pedometer?

It measures a number of bodily functions. For example I can look at mine and it will tell me exactly when I last took steps, also it has a heart monitor so when I take it off for recharging it looks like I've stopped breathing. If the police have it then it will assist in building up a time frame for what happened

 

[Dave Figgley]

It measures a number of bodily functions. For example I can look at mine and it will tell me exactly when I last took steps, also it has a heart monitor so when I take it off for recharging it looks like I've stopped breathing. If the police have it then it will assist in building up a time frame for what happened

Thanks. I'm so not up to speed with this new-fangled stuff. Would a device such as that survive three weeks under water?