UK - Nurse Lucy Letby Faces 22 Charges - 7 Murder/15 Attempted Murder of Babies #10

[marynnu]

The mother of Child J is called to give evidence.

She says she had a difficult pregnancy, and following a difficult operation in London, one of her planned twins was lost.

She said she gave birth to Child J, a baby girl, at 32 weeks and two days gestation on October 31, 2015.

Recap: Lucy Letby trial, Friday, February 10

The trial of Lucy Letby, who denies murdering seven babies at the Countess of Chester Hospital neonatal unit and attempting to murder 10 more,…

www.chesterstandard.co.uk

Planned twins suggests IVF to me. How sad she lost both in the end

I think Child J survived?

 

[Becky53]

I think Child J survived?

Sorry my bad.
have added to my original post

 

[marynnu]

Sorry my bad.

Not really, the whole case is so complex it's tricky keeping up!

 

[Dotta]

I think Child J survived?

Let's hope she is not brain damaged like others and lives her life to the fullest and in happiness.

 

[bbsaz]

Interesting that she isnt happy about being contacted off duty, yet she sends her off duty colleagues blood sugar readings, oxygen readings and general updates seemingly every shift!!

 

[GoodDayToYouSir]

[from yesterday's testimony about baby I:]

Lucy Letby's note of 'some bruising/discolouration evident on sternum and right side of chest, ?from chest compressions', written from 19 hours after the incident.

Dr Bohin says this note is not from the time of the incident.

Dr Matthew Neame's note from the time of the October 13 incident is shown to the court, and Mr Myers says there is 'no reference to any discolouration' in that note, which described the collapse and the efforts to stabilise Child I.

Dr Bohin agrees there is not.

Mr Myers suggests the bruising appeared later and the discolouration 'does not link to that incident'.

Dr Bohin says it does, as bruising is not a result of chest compressions. It was first noted 18-19 hours later.

Mr Myers suggests Dr Bohin is using that unrelated evidence to support an air embolism. Dr Bohin disagrees.

After a short break, Dr Neame's note is shown again to the court. Mr Myers says he has been made aware the word 'mottled' appears in the note. Dr Bohin agrees she can see it.

4:11am

Lucy Letby's note from the morning of October 14 is shown to the court. the note includes 'at 0500 abdomen noted to be more distended and firmer in appearance with area of discolouration spreading on right hand side'.

Dr Matthew Neame's note, made at 5.55am, is shown to the court. Mr Myers asks if it is a note from 5am. Dr Bohin says it does not say it was written retrospectively. She says if that note was related to 5am, then she had missed it.

Mr Myers asks if, from Dr Neame's note showing Neopuff was used, it could have contributed to the distended abdomen. Dr Bohin said it would not have done so to that extent.

Dr Bohin said the team did not have an obvious cause for Child I's deteriorations and she was always going to be transferred out to Liverpool on October 15.

Mr Myers refers to the location of the ET tube, NG tube and long line from a report shown to the jury. He says there is early evidence of NEC. Dr Bohin disagrees, saying the report needs to be taken in conjunction with clinical findings showing Child I had a collapsed lung and an over-inflated lung. Child I was reintubated before transfer.

Mr Myers says Dr Bohin reported for the final collapse, Dr Bohin had recorded air had been administered by the NGT and via an air embolus.

Dr Bohin says she cannot be clear whether both happened on each event, or whether it was one on each.

Mr Myers says Dr Bohin had earlier described how Child I presented at the time.

Dr Bohin said Child I had an NGT in place, but that would not have caused a distended abdomen to the extent shown.

Mr Myers says the air embolus cause was "very speculative" based on Child I's crying.

Dr Bohin says the crying was "very unusual" and air embolus was a "compatible finding" for the cause.

No doubt I’m being dense, but could someone please explain to me what the significance is of whether dr Neame’s notes were made at 5:55am or 5am? I don’t understand what point Myers is trying to make there …

 

[Dotta]

Prosecution:

'We suggest that it is highly significant that children within the orbit of Lucy Letby persistently and consistently suffered unexplained collapses.

'Sometimes the evidence of her hand at work is more obvious than others and it is remarkable that on many occasions, when children who had suffered unexpected spectacular and life-threatening collapses were removed from her orbit, they had exceptional recoveries'.

An expert:

"Ifsufficiently large amount of air was pumped in it could fill the chamber of the heart, 'in which case the heart stops'. Additionally, if the air went through a small hole in the right hand side of the heart it could pass to the left hand side and be pumped around the body and into the coronary arteries."

'Inconsolable' baby 'proved nurse injected air into them,' trial told

Dr Sandie Bohin said Baby I had been crying in a way that neonatal nurses at the Countess of Chester Hospital felt was unusual.

www.dailymail.co.uk

 

[katydid23]

Part two from yesterdays testimony:

Recap: Lucy Letby trial, Friday, February 10

The trial of Lucy Letby, who denies murdering seven babies at the Countess of Chester Hospital neonatal unit and attempting to murder 10 more,…

www.chesterstandard.co.uk

Letby says, in a message to a colleague, she had not had a good shift, as Child J had '2 profound desats' and there were 'only 5 staff' on duty.

The colleague replies: 'We closed again then? x'

Mr Johnson explains to the court 'closed' by this definition means the unit would be closed to new arrivals, not closed entirely.

Letby confirms the unit is closed until they can get someone in.

7:41am

A note is made at 7.15am recording that the parents of Child J are informed of the collapse and to come to the hospital as soon as possible.

Child J had a further collapse at about 7.24pm. Dr John Gibbs records the event in his notes.
Resuscitation efforts are made and a range of medication is administered, while observations are recorded and an x-ray made.

Letby is recorded as using her swipe card at the neonatal unit acess door at 8.55am.

Lucy Letby messages Jennifer Jones-Key just before 10.30am: "Wow it turned manic - left at 9.15 but others still there."

The reply: "Warned you..don't know what it is", adding that things seem to go "pear-shaped".

Jennifer Jones-Key messages Letby saying, of the staffing situation, 'more staff will just go off sick'.

A colleague of Letby messages her on the afternoon of November 27 to say: 'Oh and Tony Chambers n some woman turned up earlier! x'

Letby replies: 'Gosh it's mad. At least things are moving in right direction. Is it bit calmer now? Still only 5 tonight? Hope Tony got stuck in and helped!!'

 

[katydid23]

Recap: Lucy Letby trial, Friday, February 10

The trial of Lucy Letby, who denies murdering seven babies at the Countess of Chester Hospital neonatal unit and attempting to murder 10 more,…

www.chesterstandard.co.uk

Letby is on a night shift on November 27-28. She recorded Child J's vital signs and her fluids.

Nurse Mary Griffith messages Letby to say she had left the hospital at 9.45am, getting back home at 10.30am, adding she hopes Letby has a better shift tonight.

Letby replies: "You must be tired. Thanks for staying....still busy as only 5 on. [Child J] quiet hasn't done anything else abnormal and xray etc ok..."

Notes from a doctor on November 28, 2.30am, for Child J record '...no respiratory distress...'

The plan was 'continue to slowly increase feeds...to achieve full feeds by 1800 today'.

Letby records further observations for Child J at 5.06am on November 28, with 'shallow breathing observed at times' and, in a family communication note, Child J had been 'out for cuddles' with parents, who 'seemed happier' that Child J was recovering and feeds were gradually being increased.

Child J continued to be cared for at the Countess of Chester Hospital's neonatal unit until 3.30am on December 18, 2015, when she was transferred to Royal Manchester Children's Hospital.

A round-up story from today in court:

Lucy Letby trial: Mother 'utterly shocked' at baby girl's collapse

 

[katydid23]

No doubt I’m being dense, but could someone please explain to me what the significance is of whether dr Neame’s notes were made at 5:55am or 5am? I don’t understand what point Myers is trying to make there …

I think it has to do with LL's notes, compared to his notes, and the references to skin bruising and discolouration.

It is pretty confusing, but Meyers is maybe trying to discredit the notion that LL did anything to cause the bruising, when she was with the baby at around 5 am?

LL writes about the 'bruising/discolouration' in notes she took 19 hours after Dr Neames initial note. Then Meyers said that Dr Neames made no reference to that bruising/discolouration in his note. So he concludes the bruising happened much later and is not connected to the incident.

Dr Bohin disagrees with that conclusion and Meyers pushes back, accusing Dr Bohin of using that unrelated bruising as evidence of an air embolism. But then, after a short break, Meyers admits that he made a mistake, and Dr Neames DID mention the bruising/discolouration in his early morning medical notes. So did that mean that timing question didn't matter anymore?



"Lucy Letby's note of 'some bruising/discolouration evident on sternum and right side of chest, ?from chest compressions', written from 19 hours after the incident.Dr Bohin says this note is not from the time of the incident.


Dr Matthew Neame's note from the time of the October 13 incident is shown to the court, and Mr Myers says there is 'no reference to any discolouration' in that note, which described the collapse and the efforts to stabilise Child I.


Dr Bohin agrees there is not.

Mr Myers suggests the bruising appeared later and the discolouration 'does not link to that incident'.


Dr Bohin says it does, as bruising is not a result of chest compressions. It was first noted 18-19 hours later.


Mr Myers suggests Dr Bohin is using that unrelated evidence to support an air embolism. Dr Bohin disagrees.


After a short break, Dr Neame's note is shown again to the court. Mr Myers says he has been made aware the word 'mottled' appears in the note. Dr Bohin agrees she can see it.


Lucy Letby's note from the morning of October 14 is shown to the court. the note includes 'at 0500 abdomen noted to be more distended and firmer in appearance with area of discolouration spreading on right hand side'.


Dr Matthew Neame's note, made at 5.55am, is shown to the court. Mr Myers asks if it is a note from 5am. Dr Bohin says it does not say it was written retrospectively. She says if that note was related to 5am, then she had missed it.


Mr Myers asks if, from Dr Neame's note showing Neopuff was used, it could have contributed to the distended abdomen. Dr Bohin said it would not have done so to that extent.


Dr Bohin said the team did not have an obvious cause for Child I's deteriorations and she was always going to be transferred out to Liverpool on October 15.

 

[Legal]

A few thoughts and just my opinion. Perhaps if guilty, LL did this to strike at management. She was clearly angry about the staffing issues and seeming lack of support. Maybe she thought that an increase in baby deaths would show them and serve them right if they got blamed for poor management.

Also, if guilty and the motive was attention seeking, this trial must be all her dreams come true.

 

[ColourPurple]

A few thoughts and just my opinion. Perhaps if guilty, LL did this to strike at management. She was clearly angry about the staffing issues and seeming lack of support. Maybe she thought that an increase in baby deaths would show them and serve them right if they got blamed for poor management.

Also, if guilty and the motive was attention seeking, this trial must be all her dreams come true.

If guilty then IMO I think she just saw the babies as a tool to get whatever outcome she wanted. Whether that outcome be... attention, drama, admiration, compliments, support,sympathy. IMO , if guilty, she didn't care about the babies as individuals. She didn't care about their needs or whether they were in pain. And that to me , in a nurse that you put all your trust in as a parent, is absolutely chilling.


IMO

 

[ColourPurple]

Part two from yesterdays testimony:

Recap: Lucy Letby trial, Friday, February 10

The trial of Lucy Letby, who denies murdering seven babies at the Countess of Chester Hospital neonatal unit and attempting to murder 10 more,…

www.chesterstandard.co.uk

Letby says, in a message to a colleague, she had not had a good shift, as Child J had '2 profound desats' and there were 'only 5 staff' on duty.

The colleague replies: 'We closed again then? x'

Mr Johnson explains to the court 'closed' by this definition means the unit would be closed to new arrivals, not closed entirely.

Letby confirms the unit is closed until they can get someone in.

7:41am

A note is made at 7.15am recording that the parents of Child J are informed of the collapse and to come to the hospital as soon as possible.

Child J had a further collapse at about 7.24pm. Dr John Gibbs records the event in his notes.
Resuscitation efforts are made and a range of medication is administered, while observations are recorded and an x-ray made.

Letby is recorded as using her swipe card at the neonatal unit acess door at 8.55am.

Lucy Letby messages Jennifer Jones-Key just before 10.30am: "Wow it turned manic - left at 9.15 but others still there."

The reply: "Warned you..don't know what it is", adding that things seem to go "pear-shaped".

Jennifer Jones-Key messages Letby saying, of the staffing situation, 'more staff will just go off sick'.

A colleague of Letby messages her on the afternoon of November 27 to say: 'Oh and Tony Chambers n some woman turned up earlier! x'

Letby replies: 'Gosh it's mad. At least things are moving in right direction. Is it bit calmer now? Still only 5 tonight? Hope Tony got stuck in and helped!!'

"Only five staff on a duty" and then "Wow it turned manic..."

To be aware that it was already busy because there were only five staff on and then to allegedly create a situation that would put even more pressure on staff and make the situation worse, whilst pretending to be surprised that it got "manic" when she allegedly caused it to become so.. and then making more comments implying some staff don't pull their weight. If guilty, she was pulling so many strings. Wow, indeed!
IMO

 

[Dotta]

Also, if guilty and the motive was attention seeking, this trial must be all her dreams come true.

Somewhere in these threads there was a text

(sorry, but I really cannot find it in huge mass of info here)

about LL feeling bored/dissatisfied with the fact that babies in the ward required ONLY feeding.

I blinked at the screen reading it.
REALLY???

Well, if true, it might shed some light on this puzzle.

JMO

 

[ColourPurple]

Somewhere in these threads there was a text

(sorry, but I really cannot find it in huge mass of info here)

about LL feeling bored/dissatisfied with the fact that babies in the ward required ONLY feeding.

I blinked at the screen reading it.
REALLY???

Well, if true, it might shed some light on this puzzle.

JMO

IF guilty,
Sorry parents, she decided to try to kill your babies as she was a bit bored with just feeding them. Horrifyingly, if guilty, it really could be something as simple as that.


IMO

 

[Dotta]

Sorry parents, she decided to try to kill your babies as she was a bit bored with just feeding them. Horrifyingly, if guilty, it really could be something as simple as that.

It might be connected with the lack of stimuli that arouse activity, energy.
IDK

 

[marynnu]

Interesting that she isnt happy about being contacted off duty, yet she sends her off duty colleagues blood sugar readings, oxygen readings and general updates seemingly every shift!!

Good point. What struck me the most was LL messaging her poor colleague who'd had a difficult night with Child F's extremely low blood sugar, but left him/her with some improvement. Instead of being left alone to get some sleep feeling reassured, she was told the blood sugar had dropped again just after she left. Why would you do that?

 

[katydid23]

If guilty then IMO I think she just saw the babies as a tool to get whatever outcome she wanted. Whether that outcome be... attention, drama, admiration, compliments, support,sympathy. IMO , if guilty, she didn't care about the babies as individuals. She didn't care about their needs or whether they were in pain. And that to me , in a nurse that you put all your trust in as a parent, is absolutely chilling.


IMO

When I read your post, I instantly thought of something in last week's podcast, that a Doctor overheard her say, after the loss of Baby I.


One of the doctors told the jury that he saw LL, crying to one of the other nurses, although he couldn’t pinpoint the exact day and time.

But he said LL cried and was saying “It’s always me when it happens, my babies, it’s always …happening to me a lot. "

https://twitter.com/LucyLetbyTrial

That made me think she wanted to be seen as a victim and a martyr, when 'her babies' were dying under her care.

 

[Dotta]

It might be connected with the lack of stimuli that arouse activity, energy.
IDK

Replying to myself haha

To add:

She strikes me as a person bursting with energy:
- always doing something
- looking for additional tasks
(not designated babies,
preparing "memory boxes",
constant texting,
FB searches,
asking for overtime, etc.)
- going to salsa dancing after exhausting shift
Etc.

People with excessive, nervous energy/hyperactivity might suffer from anxiety disorder.

Was it a sign of restlessness?

If guilty, was it one of the factors?

JMO

 

[marynnu]

When I read your post, I instantly thought of something in last week's podcast, that a Doctor overheard her say, after the loss of Baby I.


One of the doctors told the jury that he saw LL, crying to one of the other nurses, although he couldn’t pinpoint the exact day and time.

But he said LL cried and was saying “It’s always me when it happens, my babies, it’s always …happening to me a lot. "

https://twitter.com/LucyLetbyTrial

That made me think she wanted to be seen as a victim and a martyr, when 'her babies' were dying under her care.

In my view we need to treat this with caution. Firstly, it 's not a direct quote - the doctor recalls it being something very much like this, but not the exact words. And I can see someone expressing these emotions if there are a lot of distressing things going on when they're at work. I don't think that in itself it signifies much, if anything.