UK - Nurse Lucy Letby Faces 22 Charges - 7 Murder/15 Attempted Murder of Babies #12

[Sweeper2000]

Where else do you think it would have been done?

If there isn’t enough insulin on the unit, somewhere else.

 

[magikarpmagikarp]

@Sweeper2000

In this article on baby L, Dr. Hindmarsh explains

"
Asked how much insulin would be needed to cause the low blood sugar levels in Child L, Prof Hindmarsh said: "I have taken quite a conservative view of this, but I would suggest you could add somewhere in the region of 10 units of insulin to a bag... "Vials of insulin contain 100 units per millilitre, so the volumes we're talking about are quite small and not noticeable on a routine stock check. "When added to infusion bags you wouldn't notice a change in volume within the bag, nor because insulin is a clear solution."

...

"
Prof Hindmarsh said insulin could be added "fairly easily" through a portal that's located at the bottom of the feed bags. He told the court that in his opinion, to produce the blood glucose levels detected, around at least three or potentially four bags could have been contaminated."

Lucy Letby: Baby's blood sugar dangerously low, trial told

Lucy Letby is accused of adding insulin to an infant's feed bag, the nurse's trial hears.

www.bbc.com

 

[magikarpmagikarp]

So, from what they've explained, it makes sense that multiple bags would be contaminated. There's no good reason to think a person who's going to poison one baby cares, from a moral standpoint, about harming another baby in the process. They'd probably only care if they were caught. Poisoning multiple bags might allow them to distance themselves from their victims or help provide them with an alibi. JMO.

 

[Sweeper2000]

@Sweeper2000

In this article on baby L, Dr. Hindmarsh explains

"
Asked how much insulin would be needed to cause the low blood sugar levels in Child L, Prof Hindmarsh said: "I have taken quite a conservative view of this, but I would suggest you could add somewhere in the region of 10 units of insulin to a bag... "Vials of insulin contain 100 units per millilitre, so the volumes we're talking about are quite small and not noticeable on a routine stock check. "When added to infusion bags you wouldn't notice a change in volume within the bag, nor because insulin is a clear solution."

...

"
Prof Hindmarsh said insulin could be added "fairly easily" through a portal that's located at the bottom of the feed bags. He told the court that in his opinion, to produce the blood glucose levels detected, around at least three or potentially four bags could have been contaminated."

Lucy Letby: Baby's blood sugar dangerously low, trial told

Lucy Letby is accused of adding insulin to an infant's feed bag, the nurse's trial hears.

www.bbc.com

Thankyou magicarp. They are obviously going through the same questions as us. I’m wondering though, if the volume of insulin is quite small would that have any bearing on the likely level of lethality and thus the charges? Especially bearing in mind the likelihood of it being treated. It’s also interesting because that suggests one tenth of a ml which I presume is less than a drop? Would there be a specialist syringe for that minuscule amount do you think? Or maybe a syringe with 0.5 ml as a measure then split that over multiple bags. Find it really strange that whatever they used to measure the amount of insulin this amount was close to being too much to record.

 

[marynnu]

I read a little about about intentional overdoses in adults and apparently it can take several days of intensive care and high concentration dextrose for blood sugars to normalize in adults after a single OD. I have no idea how that would apply to babies, though. It sounds like Professor Hindmarsh doesn't think it's likely.

Really? On the face of it you'd think it would be more of a problem for neonates than adults IMO.

 

[magikarpmagikarp]

Really? On the face of it you'd think it would be more of a problem for neonates than adults IMO.

I would have thought so as well, but it hasn't been brought up. I'm not clear on why. Perhaps because of the way the baby recovered? This part is something I don't quite understand, but I assume the testimony is more in depth than reported.

 

[JosieJo]

No, that was the Saturday she won the grand national. She went home after 9pm and they messaged her the next morning (Sunday) to see if she could do an extra shift that night but she said no, she needed some time off. She was off until the Thursday.

Great thanks

 

[Becci]

Hi hope the notes are easy to read lol

Digital move should stop jokes about doctors' poor handwriting

Observations, notes and records will be input and stored digitally in future

www.google.com

 

[Sweeper2000]

Hi hope the notes are easy to read lol

Digital move should stop jokes about doctors' poor handwriting

Observations, notes and records will be input and stored digitally in future

www.google.com

I think that’s a shopping list. I can see “limes” and “Smokey”. And ooooh “amaretto”.

 

[Dotta]

Hi hope the notes are easy to read lol

Digital move should stop jokes about doctors' poor handwriting

Observations, notes and records will be input and stored digitally in future

www.google.com

"Our goal of becoming a Model Hospital"

Good!
I wish them well.
Residents of Chester certainly deserve good healthcare.
Maybe something positive will emerge from this tragedy.

"Once bitten, twice shy"

JMO

 

[Dotta]

I think that’s a shopping list. I can see “limes” and “Smokey”. And ooooh “amaretto”.

I also noticed "night club" haha

But really,
those who have to write a lot daily, have their handwriting distorted after some time.
That's life.

JMO

 

[Becci]

Lol i thought it was a description of some party animal

I think that’s a shopping list. I can see “limes” and “Smokey”. And ooooh “amaretto”.

 

[Becci]

I also noticed "night club" haha

But really,
those who have to write a lot daily, have their handwriting distorted after some time.
That's life.

JMO

That or english ain't there 1st language maybe.
In hospitals exc... i can see why medication errors occur.
Much better digital for meds

 

[Sweeper2000]

Lol i thought it was a description of some party animal

Like a smoking amaretto armadillo ?

 

[Dotta]

That or english ain't there 1st language maybe.
In hospitals exc... i can see why medication errors occur.
Much better digital for meds

Where I live all medical notes are written on computer - prescriptions, notes taken during medical examinations, treatments in hospital, sick leaves ordered by doctors, etc.
Patients are given printouts if they want but
everything is done and sent digitally.

 

[Dotta]

Today

"Both babies survived, although Baby M has been left with permanent brain damage."

Lucy Letby tried to kill baby by adding insulin to intravenous bags

Neonatal nurse Lucy Letby tried to kill a premature baby by secretly adding lethal doses of insulin to at least three intravenous bags being used to feed him, a jury at Manchester Crown Court heard today.

www.dailymail.co.uk

 

[Sweeper2000]

I suppose it’s worth saying. You could if that way inclined inject three or four bags with insulin but how to know which ones are going to be picked? Especially with a difference in dextrose concentration.

 

[Dotta]

I suppose it’s worth saying. You could if that way inclined inject three or four bags with insulin but how to know which ones are going to be picked? Especially with a difference in dextrose concentration.

Those on top?

 

[Sweeper2000]

Those on top?

why not any position?

 

[sapphireminds]

I do have a question for those who have worked in units in the UK - in the US, D10 is kept as a stock fluid. I think there might be some D12.5 too, but anything over that has to be prepared by pharmacy. We do not mix our own high concentration glucose here, because of the risks involved. But I don't know if it is standard practice for RNs to be mixing their own higher concentrations of fluids there.