Could you link with time stamp to where Defense mentioned this federal grand jury stuff and any other official docs ( you write warrants?). It's not ringing any bells for me but have not watched the entire latest MTC hearing if that is your only ref to support your opinion that there are existing suspects in addition to the arrested one ie BK. It's the first I'm hearing about it and I have my doubts it will come to anything if it is even accurate. You say Spring 2023? Moo
4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered, Bryan Kohberger Arrested, Moscow, Nov 2022 #95
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RSBBM
The two cars look pretty similar to each other, coming from a person (me
) who doesn't know much about cars. I found some images on Kelley Blue Book.Also, the NYT article also says (BBM) "But further scrutiny of the video footage produced more clarity, and on Nov. 25 the police in Moscow asked law enforcement agencies to look for a different type of car with a similar shape: white Hyundai Elantras from the model years 2011 to 2013." ... "Just across the state border, at Washington State University, campus police officers began looking through their records for Elantras registered there. Among those they found was one registered to Mr. Kohberger...". And they go on to say the year of BK's car was 2015, not 2011-2013. To me, the article implies that the further scrutiny led them to look at the Hyundai Elantras instead of the Nissan Sentras (which are similar-looking vehicles especially in a grainy video, IMO), which led them to BK. Not the other way around. Although it seems parallel investigations were occurring as well. I wouldn't be surprised if I missed something, what could have led them to BK prior to Nov. 25? When did the geneology results come back (the article says "by December 19", but of course that could mean anytime before!)? IMO It was pretty clear that LE was on to BK during his trip to PA.
My main point I guess is that I don't understand why it matters NOW, what would it change wrt the charges or other evidence against BK? If they started "looking at" BK for whatever reason and he drove a Little Red Corvette, and they changed the BOLO to "look for a Little Red Corvette now, not a white Nissan Sentra"...THAT could show bias.
Article for reference: Inside the Hunt for the Idaho Killer (Published 2023)
Pictures of 2015 Sentra and Elantra from Kelley Blue Book:
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Nila Aella
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You are right! TY
Federal Grand Jury Subpoenas, not warrants.
Spring 2023 ATT warrant: advanced timing records not for BK
2:11:39
Federal Grand Jury Subpoenas
I did not transcribe below, just notes: She says more.
Well into late 2023 subpoenas related to the victims.
The D does not know why these were subpoenas and not warrants.
Is that because they are pursuing the alternate suspects that exist in this case. There are several sets of cell phone records produced.
Different phone numbers from different providers.
Phone numbers the D has to figure out who they belong to.
3:15:30
ATT advanced timing records
AJ: ATT advanced timing records. These are not related to BK. Related to other records done later for other phones.
ATT 4/13/2023
For the time period of: June 23, 2022, to August 1, 2022
AT&T Wirelus Number: Subscriber Name: Unknown at this time
AT&TWireless Number: Subscriber Name: Unknown at this time
To include both Historical Records and Real Time/Provisional Records
It isn't my opinion. It is what was said in the hearing by the attorneys.
They mentioned subpoenas late into 2023 related to the victims, Phone records from numbers with different providers. The D mentions the alternate suspects that exist in this case. AT asked BP about advanced timing records from ATT during questioning (sorry no time stamp). AJ mentioned them not being for BK. That LE does not have advanced timing records related to BK (3:14:54).
JMO
edit: changed folks to phones
Last edited:
More videos come in. More analysis done.
Thanks. Am familiar with the warrants you mention but will watch at where you have time stamped when have time. Fed grand jury supeonas am unfamiliar with.
In any event you seem to be saying At asked a question re "is it because they are pursuing other suspects in case?" Which is not confirmation that "they" are imo. I will listen for.myself though. AJ is Ashley Jennings right? Who is BP?
Séems asking that is just her being a defense attorney
Redavted warrants are open to interpretation and so is what is said at hearings where the actual facts of the case are being kept from the public until trial. Moo. I would say is far from factual that the warrants and mentions of Fed grand jury supeonas point to LE and/or the prosecutor's pursuing "alternate suspects" last year. That's just a conjecture moo.
Nila Aella
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RSFF
I count 5 (not including the LEO car) other white sedans driving that morning.
4 in the neighborhood and one on Highway 8.
JMO
It was Massoth asking about the alternate suspects that exist in this case, subpoenas relating to the victims and phone records involving different providers.
FGJ subpoenas: Massouth mentioned 50, but AJ mentioned 71.
Totally agree, not confirmation.
BP is the lead investigator.
Just being a D attorney? Possible.
True that redaction/NDO make it difficult for the public to interpret.
The D has seen the discovery. IMO the D looked up those numbers on the subpoenas they did receive. The D would also know who the alternate suspects were that exist in this case. JMO
It also seemed to me that the D thought the Spring ATT warrant with advanced timing reports was for their client until AJ mentioned they were not. AJ did mention that the P would be handing that warrant over to the D.
JMO
sunshineray
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They don't look very simular to me, the differences in the headlights and side molding is very different, very noticable. MORSBBM
The two cars look pretty similar to each other, coming from a person (me
Also, the NYT article also says (BBM) "But further scrutiny of the video footage produced more clarity, and on Nov. 25 the police in Moscow asked law enforcement agencies to look for a different type of car with a similar shape: white Hyundai Elantras from the model years 2011 to 2013." ... "Just across the state border, at Washington State University, campus police officers began looking through their records for Elantras registered there. Among those they found was one registered to Mr. Kohberger...". And they go on to say the year of BK's car was 2015, not 2011-2013. To me, the article implies that the further scrutiny led them to look at the Hyundai Elantras instead of the Nissan Sentras (which are similar-looking vehicles especially in a grainy video, IMO), which led them to BK. Not the other way around. Although it seems parallel investigations were occurring as well. I wouldn't be surprised if I missed something, what could have led them to BK prior to Nov. 25? When did the geneology results come back (the article says "by December 19", but of course that could mean anytime before!)? IMO It was pretty clear that LE was on to BK during his trip to PA.
My main point I guess is that I don't understand why it matters NOW, what would it change wrt the charges or other evidence against BK? If they started "looking at" BK for whatever reason and he drove a Little Red Corvette, and they changed the BOLO to "look for a Little Red Corvette now, not a white Nissan Sentra"...THAT could show bias.
Article for reference: Inside the Hunt for the Idaho Killer (Published 2023)
Pictures of 2015 Sentra and Elantra from Kelley Blue Book:
GRT
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Sy Ray testified earlier this year in the trial of Christopher Clements, who was charged with kidnapping and killing a child in NM. It sounds as though Ray's software and testimony were one of the very few pieces of evidence the prosecution had in that case...
I know there was a Colorado judge who did not allow Sy's cell tracking software data, but that's the only time I heard that it was negatively received. It seems that the court has embraced it the rest of the time. And that's what worries me (among other things in this case). Sy is saying what he's seeing now—from the cell data—is exculpatory. That's his word.
I'd like to know why he feels that way. Denigrating the man is not going to work. He has a good track record. I've long thought BK might have hidden his phone somewhere away from the murder house and then returned to pick it up later. But now I'm wondering if the phone was moving and that's what Sy is picking up on.
IMO that is not necessarily true. From the PCA, we know he turned north on SE Nevada St. We've had several discussions about why. Your post may have triggered why he did that. You can see the following path on Google Maps:
North on SE Nevada Street
West on NE Washington Street
North on SE Spokane Street
West on NE College Ave
East on E Spring Street (which goes underneath 270)
It turns into SE Riverview St
Then SE Latah St
Then SE Bishop Blvd
If I were him...I would not have taken 270. I would have taken Old Moscow Rd. (While attending WSU, we used to take that road to Moscow, ID because the drinking age at the time was 18 and there were fewer cops on that back road). OK...I am showing my age. LOL
With the route I described above, IMO, I would think there would be traffic cameras on campus that would have picked him up. Not sure though as I don't know how long that info. is saved or how many cameras might be installed.
I think if you review LM's testimony, it will become very clear as to why Sy Ray likely thinks the data is exculpatory. The problems I noted from the testimony were:
Copy/pasted data into CASTviz as opposed to loading the AT&T data file into CASTviz.
File not saved
No session log
Screenshot of map printed out for Grand Jury
LM found some files the defense has been asking for on his computer the day before the hearing.
LM doesn't know what settings are for in CASTviz or what settings he might have had on. IMO, it appears he does not know the CASTviz software very well.
IMO, SR probably attempted to recreate LM's work and got a completely different map. Here's the video so you can see for yourself. LM was supposed to appear at the same hearing as BP, but had a conflict, so it makes the most sense if you watch this hearing with LM followed by the hearing with BP and SR because the testimony of the 3 men build upon each other.
All JMO.
girlhasnoname
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Looks like Sy Ray has had a debatable record on his tracking methods IMO:
<snipped>
“In sum, Trax and its methods have been routinely (and sharply) admonished by the scientific and legal community, and the people haven’t directed the court to any evidence showing otherwise,” Villaseñor wrote in his ruling excluding the use of the Trax technology in the stalking criminal case.
“It’s very likely that a jury would be misled by Trax’s flashy maps and seeming accurate results,” the judge added. “But underneath those surface displays lies a sea of unreliability that the jury won’t see.”
“Most compelling are the complete absence of data to support Trax’s purported error rate and the scientific community’s wholesale rejection of Trax’s methods,” Villaseñor wrote in his ruling, noting that he had found three other rulings from judges rejecting Trax-related evidence or expressing skepticism of that evidence.
Colorado judge finds "sea of unreliability" in company's cellphone mapping data
<snipped>
“In sum, Trax and its methods have been routinely (and sharply) admonished by the scientific and legal community, and the people haven’t directed the court to any evidence showing otherwise,” Villaseñor wrote in his ruling excluding the use of the Trax technology in the stalking criminal case.
“It’s very likely that a jury would be misled by Trax’s flashy maps and seeming accurate results,” the judge added. “But underneath those surface displays lies a sea of unreliability that the jury won’t see.”
“Most compelling are the complete absence of data to support Trax’s purported error rate and the scientific community’s wholesale rejection of Trax’s methods,” Villaseñor wrote in his ruling, noting that he had found three other rulings from judges rejecting Trax-related evidence or expressing skepticism of that evidence.
Colorado judge finds "sea of unreliability" in company's cellphone mapping data
girlhasnoname
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Here is a direct transcription of "all the missing data, which btw was 2-3% in SR's estimation" from the actual hearing:
<snipped>
SY RAY: Yeah and I want to qualify that, just so it's really clear, because I understand it's starting to get very technical: there's over 500,000 lines of data that was turned over, so I-I'll make it clear, there's a lot of data that has been produced. I would say, in my opinion, looking at what's been produced, probably 2 or 3% is missing, but it’s not the amount of data, or the time of the data, it's the locations of the data. Some of the most significant locations in this case, we're missing some data.
ANNE TAYLOR: Those significant locations, have they been depicted or captured on the CAST draft report?
SY RAY: They have.
Link to the actual video if you want to listen to it in it's entirety:
Sy Ray's Testimony Transcript
<snipped>
SY RAY: Yeah and I want to qualify that, just so it's really clear, because I understand it's starting to get very technical: there's over 500,000 lines of data that was turned over, so I-I'll make it clear, there's a lot of data that has been produced. I would say, in my opinion, looking at what's been produced, probably 2 or 3% is missing, but it’s not the amount of data, or the time of the data, it's the locations of the data. Some of the most significant locations in this case, we're missing some data.
ANNE TAYLOR: Those significant locations, have they been depicted or captured on the CAST draft report?
SY RAY: They have.
Link to the actual video if you want to listen to it in it's entirety:
Sy Ray's Testimony Transcript
I actually thought of this as an explanation as to why he switched from prosecution to defense. As if maybe the methods had come into question within the prosecution world so he switched sides? Just a thought.
Nila Aella
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BBM
Further down in linked article:
Villaseñor said in his ruling that he found three earlier cases in which challenges to the use of ZetX’s Trax technology were not successful. Judges ended up accepting Trax-related evidence in those cases, but Villaseñor said he found those rulings “unpersuasive.”
JMO
Thanks for the link!
Continuing further in the transcript:
ANNE TAYLOR: And tell me what those locations are, what are we missing?
SY RAY: I am unable to find any measurements along, I believe it's 270 , um the Moscow-Pullman Road, if you drove the most direct route from Pullman to Moscow or vice versa, pretty much as soon as you're leaving Pullman to the time that you arrive in Moscow, we are missing that entire stretch… if there's ever been a case that we need to look at what does it look like when a phone travels from Pullman to Moscow, this is probably the case. Um, we have the neighborhood around the crime scene, we don't have the crime scene.
JMO
girlhasnoname
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You're welcome, I like to provide the source for those who care to read it. He's debatable and he states himself he reserves the right to change his opinion after further examination.
That's an AT strategy all day long, and I guess we'll have to wait and see how it plays out during trial - Sy Ray verses FBI Cast expert.
JMO
Sy Ray & His Trax Software. Any Changes?
From quickly skimming article, IIUC alleged stalking occurred in Jan. 2022,
& article w Oct. 2022 pub date reported re Sept 2022 ruling so it seems that SR ran his program to analyse the data w'in a several mo window in 2022.
From your post & article:
“Most compelling are the complete absence of data to support Trax’s purported error rate and the scientific community’s wholesale rejection of Trax’s methods...” per CO. judge.
My Q (If my timing/dates ^ are correct):
Any chance that since SR's 2022(?) analysis was ruled inamissiable in that CO. case, that he has MODIFIED the program, so:
--- SR now has data to support lower error rate?
--- Some in scientific community recognized Trax as reliable?
Therefore
--- J. Judge may ADMIT TRAX map for BK's cell?
Anyone? Thoughts?
@girlhasnoname . Thx for your post & link to Oct 2022 article re CO. case in which SR's map of deft's cell phone movement/location was ruled inadmissable on Sept. 20, 2022.
From quickly skimming article, IIUC alleged stalking occurred in Jan. 2022,
& article w Oct. 2022 pub date reported re Sept 2022 ruling so it seems that SR ran his program to analyse the data w'in a several mo window in 2022.
From your post & article:
“Most compelling are the complete absence of data to support Trax’s purported error rate and the scientific community’s wholesale rejection of Trax’s methods...” per CO. judge.
My Q (If my timing/dates ^ are correct):
Any chance that since SR's 2022(?) analysis was ruled inamissiable in that CO. case, that he has MODIFIED the program, so:
--- SR now has data to support lower error rate?
--- Some in scientific community recognized Trax as reliable?
Therefore
--- J. Judge may ADMIT TRAX map for BK's cell?
Anyone? Thoughts?
I need to make a correction as I looked closer at the PCA and forgot about the video of the suspect vehicle also traveling back south on SE Nevada Street. Turning around, the car could still get to 270 without passing the video camera at the intersection of SE Bishop Blvd and 270. From SE Nevada Street to Olympia Ave and SE Forest Way get one to 270 (IF the vehicle actually took 270 to Moscow as suspected, and not Old Moscow Rd).
GoBuckeyes
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That does seem quite unbelievable, doesn't it?
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IIRC, and I might be off, he asked, "Who else have you arrested?" or "Am I the only one you've arrested?" Or very similar. I don't think he mentions anyone else by name, only in general terms. ICBW
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Sorry to be so ignorant, but if I don't ask, I'll remain that way. For what does VSS stand? TIA
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